*DAMN R6 Forum

Fucking rag heads man, if anyone hasn't seen the news yet, go fuckin anywhere http://www.gweep.net/~leaf/wtc.txt
this shit sucks, new ww3?
what you guys think

btw, can anyone get on GR?., i can't

we wont get into a war (i hope :().  we dont even know who did this yet...


i cant

Ease off Zak.
We have no idea who has done this.  I remember well a few years back when for over a week, we were searching for the middle eastern man that bombed the federal building in Oaklahoma...... and jeez... turned out they were rasist white Americans.

Let's not be ugly Americans.  I'm just as angry as the next guy, but I want the head of the assholes responsible... not just because they live in the middle east.

i dont think some racists hijacked all these planes...

just looking at these palistinians (spelling?) celebrating this makes me so mad. even the kids are celebrating, handing out candy, they dont even know any better, but this is how parents over there are raising there kids.

I wanted to kick the shit out of those fucking Palistineans who were celebrating. GRIFT, I'm not being an ugly American, but I got good money saying that this was that sick fuck Osama Bin Laden. After looking at what it required for this attack, he was one of the few who had the resources. Also, he just recently stated that he was going to pull off an "unprecedented attack." I can't wait for Bush to ram his ass full of cruise missiles.

o i know something big's gonna happen cause of this.  somone's gonna die. ULTIMO IF UR READING THIS RESPOND
i wanna know if ur still alive since u live in new york
thank god they shot that plane down over in pittsburg, cause it was headed towards chicago.  That was lucky......for the ragheads, cause us chicago guys would go to palistine and kick their terrorist asses

Matt,
That's how some people over there are reacting..... Arafat (sp?) has made a statement expressing grief and sympathy (which is a big change for him, the leader of the PLO). ?Don't let some sensationalistic journalism color your opinion of the whole middle east. ?The bigest concentration of Muslums outside the middle east are located here, in Dearborn Michigan (as of last census). ?Growing up here, I've known many arabs (to use a phrase) from many of the middle eastern countries. ?Nobody here is anything but shocked.

Yes, there are sick people in this world celebrating at the tragic events that took place today. ?These people are sick and wrong. ?That doesn't mean we should condem them. ?Freedom of speach is one of America's most sacred rights.... can we deny this to someone else just because we don't agree with them? ?No matter how plainly wrong they are?

No, what we need to do is stop, take a breath, bury our dead, express our grief... then find those responsible, and show them what it means to be responsible..... cutting off thier balls and making them choke on 'em comes to mind..... ?Hey, I may want to keep the peace with our worldly neighbors, but that doesn't mean I don't want the bastards responsible to suffer, right up until they die.

Ace,  
It could well lead to him, and if so, I'd gladly fire the shot to kill him.  I don't blame the Germans for Hitler, I don't blame the Cubans for Castro, I don't blame the Americans for Bush (ok, yes I do, and that was a cheap shot, sorry).  I can't blame all the arab population in the middle east for a terrorist act or for some of the people celebrating it.  Hell, in the back woods here, in some Michigan Militia headquarters, I'm sure they are celebrating it too.... just because they hate the government so much.  Hate the assholes, not everyone.  

GRIFT, I agree almost completely with total freedom of speech. However, those sick fucks deserve every condemnation coming their way. Anyone, middle eastern, American, or otherwise, deserves to have their faced bashed in if they are cheering these attacks. I don't hate all arabs, just those faggots who were happy about this.

I agree with Ace. This is one hell of a sick attack. And I would like to pray for those families who knew people who lost their lives this morning. I sure as hell hope Bush does something about this, and in my opinion it is quite obvious who did this and that this will be the start of a war. And those fuckers who did this have no idea who they messed with.

What is scary is that Bin Ladan, was trained under the CIA for service against the russians during the cold war times. He has a stong understanding and intellgence behind USA workings. He is one of the richest terrorists in the world, and has spent several dollars backing terrorists factions across the middle east. including the 1998 bombing of us embassy's in africa......and no doubt in my mind he is responsible for the shit that's gone down today.

Yes, JN I have no doubt either.

Hey, if I were a betting man, and, I am, my money would be on Ben Ladin too.

However, you don't start a war on a hunch.. you wait for the proof..... after all, what will those 10 more days of freedom (or life) mean in the long run, just to be sure.

Also, I don't like the idea of bombing.... we'll catch too many people that aren't guilty in those.  And it would be less satisfying to my nature.  Now, sending in some of our special forces to bring back his head... that's more to my liking.  Anyone that protects him is fair game... but it's less random then bombing.  As for risking the lives of our special forces, when we could just bomb.... well, that's what they signed up for, and we should keep our high standards of being better then the terrorists (by being precise in those we chose to whipe off the face of the earth).

Trust me, I want the fucker responsible for this as much as anyone.  Only, I just want his blood (and those few associated with him that back him).

I doubt this will mean war.  Only way we would go to war over this is if we found a government behind it / suppporting it.  That said, our millitary is free to hunt the bastard down.

you gues read about nastradamus or whatever, he predicrted the last 2 weorld wars over 200 years ago, he predicted the third one to be this month, but, he wa soff by 2 yras, but then again, he was on a diffrent calander, and he saiddd.....it was a man, dark colored, in his 20's, adn from the east
he said something like the 2 towers of te new city trembled and something....

freaky huh?

yeah but us rules of engangement suck, and we would lose so many men if we sent in a special forces team

*looks up* how the fuck did i do that?

{smiley's gone out of respect... Grifter also uses the modify link, like Zak could have, to fix the post above}

Man alot of shit hapopened this morning. Im from Cnaada and a couppe of my friends fathers were in that building that colapsed. Very sad story. Also my other friend called me and told me that his dad works at an airport and there not letting him go home and the Police and fbi has surrounded the airports. Already one american plane has been shot down with Americans in It What the Fuck and also I hope Bush doesnt go berserk if he fiunds who did it because I dont wanna go to war. The funny thing is that it will probably happpen. There are m,any facts that line up to this.

Fact 1: The bombing of Pearl harbor lead to war with nukes.

Fact 2: When Russia  bombed USA I think they retalieted.



So what will stop Bush from bombing Palestine or those Fuckin Afgans. Well you guys tell me.

man, if we do go to war, this is gona suck, im gona be pissed if i get drafted, all you otehr peiopel are lusky your not 18/close to!!
and i hope mauti won;t have to go to war, if it ends up a world war?!

haha, im overreacting, we'll see what happens

Glad, I first want to express my sympathy for your friends' families.

Since mocks are totally out of the question today, I'll just say Russia never bombed us. Also, don't go accusing any group. Palistine most likely didn't do this, they just have some sick fucks who were cheering it. They deserve an ass-beating, but probably not a bomb. Also, Afghanistan's role is still unclear. Osama Bin Laden was most likely behind this, and he is just about the most evil guy in the world behind Saddam, so go ahead and blame anything on him. But don't get mad at all Afghans, that's being an "ugly American" as GRIFT would say.

grifter, we now have evidence and TOP US OFFICIALS are sure that it was binladin. ?Using technical intelligence (satillites, eavesdropping) rather than human intelligence (penetrating binladin's organization) us officials have been givin enough evidence that they know bin ladin was behind this. ?anyway, somone's gonna pay for this ?



also, does this remind you of a plot of one of tom clancy's books? like when terrorists drive a hijacked plane into the capitol building? ? ? ?

I know I'm the local dumbass but what do you think will happen when the government confirms what faction/government/Ben Ladin-type person? Will it be an all-out war against them?? I really wish that this had not happened, but now (until we find the person responsible) basicly all we can do is pray...

Shit, I sound religious! I guess goign to Catholic school's makes me kinda like that tho..

I'm thankful that I am under 18 (I'm only 15) so that I cannot be drafted to war, and I hope no one from out 'community' on GameRanger must be used as a skilled tool against the enemy.

Best of luck, and Glad, my class will pray ?for your friends parents tomorrow (we pary in class, for diffrent things and people.)

Best of luck (again),
Romulus

Ace,
Very well said, and I agree... an ass whoopin' isn't a violation of anybody's civil rights.... sick assholes deserve a good ass whoopin'.  Very classy moves on the smiley's and mock restraint (not that I expected anything less from you or Wrath... nuf said).

Glad,
sorry to hear about your friends (and their fathers).  I hope that they still turn up tonight, just one of the guys that couldn't make it out of the city, but alive and healty.

SBD,
haven't seen that on the news yet.  I'm watching the New York news on the Sat, not CNN right now.  Again, when they find out, I'm all for midevil torture on his ass.  

All,
as to war, a GOVERNMENT has to get involved for there to be a war.  I pray this is not that!  If this is a terrorist incident backed by anyone other then a government, or as long as no NATION harbors the people responsible for this, it won't be a war.. it will be an old fashioned BOUNTY HUNT / MAN HUNT.  Which will make me sleep much better (wondering what age they stop drafting at.....)

This is funny everyone on GR is in the R6 forum about some fags who like killin them selves hitting expensive and very populated buildings. Now the only case of terroists sacrificing there lives in a difficult situation is only th Arabs. They dont care about dien I know that for a fact, but. Ace ur right I am being an Ugly american or shall I say ugly Canadian. But ?this whole matter is fucked up. How many people died again? 40, 000? How many more peopel are gonna die because of this fucked up matter? 1,00's 1000's 10,000 I dont know we will have to see what what what Bin Laden will feel like when he is hanged by his ass hole!

This is seriously fucked up. And someone is going to pay for the pain they have caused the victims families and friends. This was an act of a bunch of cowards, to kills a bunch of civilians. If they weren't such cowards they would have messed with our army but they know that our army is the strongest and would make them pay for it and make everyone in their nation pay.

GRIFT, i wouldnt call that class, i hope it still qualifies as common human decency (then again, after today's events, im questioning common human decency a lot)

its looking more and more like its that Bin Laden bastard... whoever it is, lets just say i got good word that we are on top of it and they are definitely going to pay

i know this is somewhat selfish to think of it at a time when thousands have died, my after my mom asked me about it, i looked up my draft number today and the rules... GRIFT, the government confirmed my suspicions - you're an old fart, too old to fight... anyone between 18 and 25 can be drafted, but the way its set up 18 and 19 year olds most likely wouldnt be drafted (wahoo)... it goes 20, 21....25, 19, 18 for age priority (lottery number also is very important)

To the person(s) who has done a great mass of destruction and loss to the United States of America:  America will find u and u will be brought to justice no matter what it takes to do  >:( >:( >:(
To the family/friends of victims, I wish all prayers and wishes to u and u love ones who may have parished in this day, 09.11.2001 AD

In the City of God
there will be a great thunder, Two
brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the
fortress endures, the great leader will
succumb" , "The third big war will begin
when the big city is burning" - Nostradamu

Ace, you're still a class act, no matter what they all say.... heh.

Viper... if I remember my Nostradamus (sp?) he also implyed that this would not be the first attack, and that the Russians would come in on our side and kick this guys ass (obviously not a quote... but the general message about the old enemies, bear and something ..... us and Russia...... joining forces to overcome the thrid antichrist.)

I think he also mentioned DC in there as well....  "new capitol" or something...

Before I begin, let me say this, four monthes before I register. Fuck.

Also before I begin my tirade, I'd like to mention that I have not been unaffected. ?I live in Maryland, not far north of DC. ?I still don't know the condition/situation surrounding several friends and there parents working at the pentagon, and this is both shocking and saddening. ?

With that said...
---
Grift, I agree with nearly everything you've said, once again you prove to be a voice of reason. ?

As for retaliation: NO

We can't invade. ?Let's learn a lesson from our former Soviet opponents, don't invade Afganistan. ?Period. ?20 year's ago, the second greatest military on Earth couldn't overtake afganistan. The greatest military power won't have any luck either, I mean a couple thousand fucking peasents beat us in Vietnam, our success would even less in the middle east.

We shouldn't bomb. ?Bush will call for it, and we'll bomb them, but the collateral damage will be astronomical. ?We can't kill inncoent persons for revenge.

We wouldn't dare send Spec Ops. ?Rules of engagement ?don't allow it, as they should not. ?Anyways, similar Isreali tactics have been part of what's gotten us in trouble in the first place.

Any retaliation will just perpetuate more bombings, more hijacking, more chaos, more death.

I'm not suggesting a solution, because I don't know one, but I know what we shouldn't do.



Furthermore, the outcrying here has been amazing, and of course, warrented. ?It's a damn shame that the same hasn't occurred when Nicaragua, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebanon, Palistine, Columbia, and Hondurus sustain similar attacks... ? by us.

I'm in no way rationalizing these attacks, but one must take a step back and look at our own history. ?The US has some of the grossest violations of Human rights and some of themost hypocritical of values. ?We've fucked up in the past, and are paying for it now.

They have no right to attack us like they have, but they are not the only ones at fault.

We should assassinate Bin Laden. Except we can't because of some laws that FDR passed because he was scared for his ass.

The politicians are protecting each other by banning assassinations of each other.

If we were to attack Afganistan or any other country, it wouldn't be the bad guys who would be hurt, it would be the citizens who had nothing to do with this.

On some radio show or TV broadcast, one of the government officials indicated that they could get Bin Laden, except they weren't allowed to. Oh well...

Of course, Americans are all shocked about our citizens dying from terrorist attacks, but where is our news coverage of African nations with the Muslims persecuting the minorities there? Um.. nowhere. Where is the news coverage of governments killing their own citizens? Uh.. hehe.. I guess it isn't there.. Where is the MAJOR news coverage of killings of our own citizens by our own government? Um.. I think that's out to lunch.

More people have been murdered by their own government than have died in all the World Wars and misc wars combined.

9.11.01 : 911 : state of emergency.

Slurs anyone who uses racial slurs here deserves to be banned. The same goes for anyone who posts on this thread with a complete lack of respect for those who have been affected by this event. And for that matter anyone who uses curses without substanance or can't type a word without a mistake. This is a very serious matter. This is not a mock. Show some respect.

Now.

Mort. though unconfirmed, the US has been launching missles into Afghanistan. They would not do this UNLESS the terrorist attacks were state-sponsered. The Afghanistan government has been housing Bin Laden for a while, and if indeed the US is currently bombing Afghanistan it is only because we found evidence that the Afighanistan government was directly linked to the attack on the US today.

As for the US being hypocritical, I couldn't agree more.

War. Doubtful. If there was a war, it would be, if handled correctly by the US be over in days.

blackhand, I have a few points to take up with you.

First, while I totally agree that the general slurs against Middle Easterners and Arabs are completely uncalled for, the slurs directed at those fucking dancing Palistineans and that sick bastard Osama Bin Laden are well deserved. Both of them lost their rights with their despicable acts.

Second, the attacks on Afghanistan were internal. Apparently, they have been in a quasi-civil war, and this was part of it.


As for Mort calling for zero retaliation, that is completely unacceptable. This is America. No one gets away with doing this to us. While there have been a few suggestions, GRIFT seems to be the voice of reason on this one. We should take the route which would only spill the blood of Osama Bin Laden and his followers.

Speaking of GRIFT, quit flattering me, you're making me blush.

Just so that I know, where can I get a copy of the Rules of Engagement? I have minimal idea of what they state, and I would like some knoledge before I get involved in a convo about them.

Good luck,
Romulus

Guys, if  its directed to us, and it goes boom...chances are Bin Ladan is behind it.  And god damnit...if any more shit goes down, I'm prolly not gonna be online...reasons being, I'm dead.  I live about 10mi from the largest Military testing site in Maryland.  Warheads, chemicals, you name it...they got it stored there...

I'm not saying we should just sit by and get blasted, I'm just saying our current military options are not feasble or moral.

As for the fires and bombings in afganistan, they existed, but we have denied responsibility.  That doesn't mean it was us, it just means we arn't saying that it was us. God knows we've done it before. What is more likely (according to the press)is that they have been the results of inner strife within the sovreignty of afganistan... Though that is unconfirmed too.

Ace, you have to remember that the Palastenians dancing in the streets reflect the general image of the US in the Middle East.

Is it wrong for them to be dancing? Yes.

Does it make me angry? Yes.

I still don't think it warrants any sort of racial slurs.

Do I dance when the Israelis pound their sorry asses for one of their disgusting suicide bombers? No

Do I laugh at their pathetic, powerless, poverty-stricken nation? No

I don't give a flying fuck what they think about us. By dancing, they are dancing on the memories of fallen Americans. They are dancing on our freedom, liberty, and safety. Anyone who does that deserves to get their face bashed in. Since I can't exactly fly over and do that, I express my anger for them with racial slurs. The problem with racial slurs normally is that they degrade the target's humanity. However, these sick fucks have no humanity left to degrade.

Yeah... If you look at the CNN site (www.cnn.com), you will notice that NATO is supporting the USA's retalation.

I know it may not be very humain, but it will avange the deaths of so many of our people.

Also, where are the Rules of Engagement?!?

-Romulus

Ok, long post number 2......

To the point of racial slurs:

People dancing, celebrating at an act like this are sick, unreasonable fucks.  I don't care who they are, where they are from, or why the don't like America.  Celebrating at the suffering of others is classified as a mental defect.

That said, looking at footage of a couple hundred sick fucks is not a reason to lump a whole group of people in that catagory.  Being a rasist is wrong..... flat wrong.  nobody can justify it.  If anyone here really thinks that ALL of the middle east (so called "Arabs") celebrated, needs to take the pillowcase off their heads and look around.  Every group or race has it's assholes.  We just saw some of theirs on the news.

I think racial slurs should be deleted, but will wait for my co-moderators here to cast their opinions before taking any action at all.  Beter yet, everyone let go of some anger (I know that's what most of it is), take a deep breath, and discover some class.

As to the point of the Soviet invasion of Afganistan and the US action in Vietnam:

In both cases, war wasn't declared, and neither the Soviet Union nor the US ever really threw their weight behind the actions.  At the hight of the Vietnam War (for arguments... I'll call it war, please don't correct this, it's not the point) we only had about 250,000 people in the country at one time.  Most of those would not be in combat, and that includes all services.  Before you try to correct this figure, that's not the total number of Americans that were there over the decade, but the most at a single time.  Most years, there were many less actually "in country".  Compare that to WW2, when 4 million Americans were out there kicking ass and taking names.  That's what happens when America really "DECLARES WAR".  America has not done this since WW2.  The Soviet Union never sent a full scale invasion into Afganistan either.  Doing something half assed is a direct path to failure.

That said, I expect a higher standard from us, Americans.  Justice needs to be delt out.  Sending in special forces to remove the guilty (once it's determined to satisfaction who that is), and ANYONE GIVING AID TO THE GUILTY, would not bother me in the least.  Not only do these sick fucks (I'm using that term often, sorry) need to be removed from the gene pool, but an example must be made to discourage this type of action in the future.  May this cost lives of some soilders, probably.  This is still acceptable to me if they are allowed to do their jobs, as it's a risk they all signed up for (you have to really want to be a SEAL in real life).

And more, if a nation state (like Afganistan) were to shelter these people, and resist our efforts, they would be validating this action, and I would express my opinion that we should then DECLARE WAR on that nation, and do it with the full force of the American Industrial Machine that made the world stand in awe 50 years ago.

One last point, if we do, by chance, end up at war with Afganistan (which I actually hope doesn't happen, war is always bad, but sometimes necessary), then I would expect to see the Russian armed forces coming across the boarders to jump in on our side.  It's a win-win situation for them.  They'd love to help us (relations with the US being what they are, they know we are a good friend to have), and they'd love to have access to the ports and oil that Afganistan could offer them, if they could manage to slice some off for themselves.  War like that is usually good for the economy (of the winning sides) and could help focus Russia away from it's own, internal problems.

As to the point of America being hypocritical:

America has done things that it shouldn't have.  Everyone and every country has.  Believe it.

That said, saying that America is responsible for some of the grossest violations of Human rights, is a bit much for me to swallow.  America hasn't killed millions as in the gas chambers of WW2 (this in no way should reflect on my german friends here.... as it is the History of a collection of a Assholes from 50 years ago, and not a reflection upon their nation).  America has not comitted the slaughter that has taken place in Africa (tribes killing each other with machetti's.... miles of road covered with dead).  Talk about mustard gas in WW1.  Ok, the whiping out of my ancestors (native american is the other side of my Scott's ass), was cruel and wrong.  But that, too, was another time, in a different world, without the standards we now recognize (not justifying a thing here... just as a human race, we should be growing and learning).

Has America done wrong, yes.  Has it done anything this wrong.... this is a debate for another day.

************ end of part 1 ************

[/color]

************ part 2 (sorry, didn't realize until I finished my rant was really this long) *************

And last, for the rules of engagement:

As stated earlier, you can't compare peace keeping actions, police actions and wars in the same breath.  Different rules do apply.

Note, it's against one of the conventions (read these WAY too long ago to remember which conference it was) to assisinate a HEAD OF STATE.  If this turns out to be Bin Laden, he's not a head of state.... does this "rule" still apply......

Note, the USA can declare war against a group of people that are not a nation state.  We've done it.  The barbary pirates back by our thrid president (and our congress).

Last, rules change.  Always have, always will.  Most nations have never fully followed the conventions laid down in Geneva (including the USA).  I've seen footage of shotguns in Vietnam, and those were "outlawed".  Right or wrong, things evolve, so don't think that if the "rules of engagement" get in the way, they will be changed (or just flat broken).

Ok, this rant has gone on long enough (probably too long).

Justice!  that's what I want.

[/color]

As one of the voices of logic and reason, I must correct some of the gossip that is going on in this thread currently.

1) We are not yet bombing the Taliban gov't, but believe me it will come.

2) We are justified for bombing the Taliban for two reasons, #1 being that we gave them direct warnings about any loss of American life at the hands of Bin Laden would amount to us bombing the hell out of them. #2 President George W. Bush made the statement that we will not judge any differences between terrorists and those who harbor them.

3) The plane that crashed 80 miles outside of Pittsburgh, PA was NOT shot down, it crashed after a fight in the cockpit between the terrorists and the passengers.

4) There will be a giant land invasion to kill Osama Bin Laden after we launch missile and air raids. This will be the decisive blow against the son of a bitch.

5) You will NOT be called up in the draft. There are millions of reserves ahead of your ass in the line to be enlisted.

6) There will be no World War III because who would we be fighting against? I do not consider a war against the Islamic Fundamentalists in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan a World War.

7) Those responsible have done more harm than good to themselves for this act of cowardice. This has strenghtened the American resolve to live and preserve democracy - the likes of which have not happened since the last "Day of Infamy" December 7, 1941.

8. Strange things happen in this world. If you notice or study Islamic Fundamental law, Osama Bin Laden committed the highest Sin in his religion - the slaughter of the innocent.

9) Grifter, "Rules of Engagement" are a joke. We follow no rules when firing our military hardware into rogue states. (Libya battleship bombardment, Sudan Tomahawk bombardments) Once we have a good idea where the bastard is, kiss his ass goodbye.

10) I am deeply disturbed by all of the ignorant on GR that proudly display the tag "DTA" on their User ID's. By having that on your name only shows the level of ignorance that today's youth in America has. I hope after my editorial, you will learn a little something and take it off.

11) As my concluding point, may those responsible for the worst act of violence against Americans on American shores, may they rot in the deepest, darkest corners of hell.

Very well said.  *applauds*

Extremely well said... *applauds*

:(    I'm scared now. I'm scared for the world. I think that justice should be carried out, but I think that if we bomb whatever country in the middle east is responsible, this will incite a lot of conflict in the middle east.  ALSO, if racial prejudice prevails in America against middle eastern americans, this will lead middle eastern countrys to condemn america.  Terrorist attacks will become more common place in america, and many citizens will be killed.  This will lead to World war 3.  World war 3 will be a holy war, with each religion battling against the others.  THe U.S. will be involved of cource, but all NATO countries will get involved too.  Sides will be taken, and the war will become huge.  I'm afraid that this will end up escalating to nuclear and/or biological war.  If that happens, the world will be totally screwed.  I"m not sure if this will end with the end of the world, but all the prohpets have said that.  I hope this is just pre war paranioa, but i belive that if we're not careful, this will become close to apocalypse, or even the unthinkable end.  IF ANYONE has theories on prophecies about this, plz post on here.  hell, call me an idiot, i expect it.  I"m just getting afraid with the posibilities.  I have read a little nostradamus and i have 2 things that i will look out for.  first, BUSH is going to go to New york city.  IF bush tries to go to the city, but is deterred by a threat and doesnt enter the city for security reasons.  Nostradamus has predicted that i think. I THINK.  Also IF pope john paul is assassinated, START LOADING WEOPONS.  That was prophicided that this would escalate the war into the events that will end the world.  SO if the pope is assassinated, wich i hope doesnt happen ( if it does its gonna be in the farther future)  i would start gettin afraid.  Again PLZ post if u have any theories about what happened, or what might happen in the near future.  God be with all of you during these times .  

Ass(assin),

Where I respect your opinion.... I respectfully rebutt it a bit.

1) I hope we don't resort to bombing... it's a tactic that is sloppy and causes too much damage to those it need not.  I hope that we are above them, and will find a way to bring justice to only those that deserve it.  You are also assuming that the Taliban will continue to back Bin Laden (also assuming that it was him behind this.)
2) Again, we are only justified if we find it was really him, and they continue to back him.  As for the comment about the president says it's ok means it's justified.... right, like he can't make a mistake.  Saying something is ok, because we say it is ok, is not a great argument.
3) Correct, as of the news today.
4) Maybe.... but I'd rather see a small unit of special forces take the bastard out... no a full land invasion.  
5) If there is a world war, the draft will happen.  Our armed forces are undermanned for a long (not months, but years) term.  If there is a world war.. it won't be like the Gulf.
6) A world war means that it involves North, South, East, and West.  Hemispheres.  WW2 was all over the globe.  It wasn't a world war until we entered (being the West part).  So, it all depends on who gets involved.... and to what extent.  Again.  I pray it never happens.
7) Absofuckinglutely! (and you corrected the date, thank you).
8. While I agree... the twist is that they (the twisted fucks) don't see it that way.  We are not innocent, as we don't follow the rules of the Koran.  I'm not agreeing here... just pointing out that they don't think that way.
9) We do follow rules of engagement.  You notice that we never invaded those nations... as that would have been crossing a different line.  Sending in troops is seen as agression, not retrebution.  That said, I also said in this case, rules will most likely be changed or broken.  (and pointed out that we've broken small ones before).
10) again, Absofuckinglutely.
11) Amen.

Wow. ?There's been alot said since my last post,so i guess I'll just take em one by one.

Grift-Unfortunatly, your post was really long, and I am really tired. ?Your post was just wrong enough that I can't support all of your opinions, but just ambiguous enough that its hard to disagree with any of it. ?but I'll try...

a) We havent declared war since WW2 because of one reason and one reason only: politics. ?Its not that we are doing things half-assed, it that our Presidents, since Truman, have found its easier to declare something a "police action" than to declare war. ?They don't have to deal with Congress, and most of the time, the electorate either.

b) If a draft, billions upon billions of dollars of expense, and a quarter million soldiers on a landmass the size of california isn't a fucking war, i'm afraid of what your definition is. ?Since you DO seem to beleive it was "half-assed" remember this, we didn't go further (as Nixon surely would have) because the American people refused to. ?

"Opposition to the war in this country is the greatest single weapon working against the US" -Nixon during LBJs administration, in a speech before the veterens of foreign wars.

c)"Has America done wrong, yes. ?Has it done anything this wrong.... this is a debate for another day" -grift

I heard what is supposed as the best estimate today of 20,000 dead. ?You and I both know that since WW2 (since we are talking about modern warfare) ?We have caused ten times that many deaths, even one hundred times that many deaths. ?But as you say leave that to another day.

d) Thank you Grift for posting coherent critism to my posts. ?I find it sad that I can carry on an intellegent disagreement with only a few people on here, but thats life. ?All your points have been noted.

Assassin-Your points are excellent too. ?Aside from #2, (of course) I agree with everything youve said. ?As for #2, according to a 1971 estimate, there were 17 million in afganistan. ?That number has no doubt doubled. ?It doesn't take 34 million to harbor 1 man and his minions. If (when) we bomb them we'll be as indescrimate between civilians and tengos as they were with us. I can't speak for anyone else, but for the love of god I won't sink to that level.

SBD-You thoroughly confused me, but before you start praying for mankind, I suggest you start praying for the dead. ?No matter when the apocolypse is we got a couple more years... lets bury our dead first.

SBD,
If you buy into the Michelle Nostrodamus translations ...... at least what many think they said.....


He predicted that in September of 1999 or 2000 (depending upon which source you read) the "New City" will burn.  "Twin Brothers" will crumble... etc.

He goes on to forsee that this was a sneak attack by the third antichrist (Hitler was 2, Napolian was 1).  He makes a reference that this antichrist is from the middle east, but I can't remember that passage.  Also that the next attack would wipe out DC (I can't remember the words that lead them to think DC).  

Further, the old enemies Russia and America (he calls one the Bear and I can't remember what he calls US) will join forces to destroy the antichrist.  And the world burns with the fire of war again (WW3).

He makes reference to the length of the war, but I can't remember it at all.

Finally, he says that after the third antichrist is banished, there will reigh 1000 years of peace.  He goes on to predict the end of the world, some many thousand of years in the future.


Again, I read these as part of a college course, a good 9 years ago.  I'm not advocating this, but many do.  I'm just answering SBD's request.  If anyone has a better memory (or the book with translations... ) feel free to correct any errors I may have made.

Mort,

You are exactly correct as to why we didn't declare war, and as to the opinion of many in the US as being a big weapon against us..... that was my whole point (even if it didn't come out right).  

And to compare Vietnam to WW2... no, in my opinion it wasn't a war.  We never threw all our wieght behind it (as you stated).  If we wanted to (as a united country) we could have burned down that whole country.   America didn't have that kind of will back then.  America seems to have that kind of unity and fire now...... I just hope it's directed well.  I don't blame our military for what I said..... it was the country's comittment that made it a half assed effort.

As for debating.... people with informed opinions (informed being a KEY WORD) should debate their ideals... it's how best practices are formed... how we better ourselves.  I also respect your opinions... even if I don't agree with them all.... but what fun would that be (fun- not today, but when less sad, offensive acts are being discussed).

Preach it brothah grift!
-----
I missed something in all my schnanigans.  Assassins point #8, that Mr. bin laden has broken a most sacred point of his faith.

Osama bin laden believes that he is perpetrating a jihad (islamic crusade).  He's not, but even if he was though, he is still violating a basic tenent of the faith.

Persons from 4 of the major 5 religons (christianity, judism, islam, hinduism, and buddism) break their convenet not to murder almost daily, which is truly sick.

The buddhists are the rare exception.  Anyone for converting? It's looking better and better.

            Personally i dont think somin bin laden did this, he has had so many attempts lately but they have the pattern of small strikes. I believe bin laden doesn't have the recourses or the time to have payed and planned this out in unless he was supplied with recources.

I hope this made sense because im not very fast on the thinking hard side.

Well my personal beliefs are different... sord of. I think we should bomb the hell out of those stupid A- holes celebrating... I mean come on ..HINT HINT they are celebrating.. TAKE A HINT THERE... possibly 20,000 people dead! and those FUCKS are celebrating like it is fucken Christmas day and santa brought them fucken like brand new cars and money for their poor asses. I SAY THOSE PEOPLE THAT CELEBRATED THIS AWFULL  EVENT SHOULD BE ACTED ON AS IF THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!

       Oso

P.S. Deeply sorry for the losses in New York

oso, i'm sorry that your leaving gr, but i think that's an irresponsable and immature opinion. Hatred will only breed more hatred

arrrgh how come my opinions always get bashed... i hate it.... errrrr

Rebutting grifter's rebuttal to me ?;D ;D

1) As of the news today, your rebuttal to point two of mine is moot. Bin Laden has essentially been confirmed as the mastermind...the terrorists identified had links to the Bin Laden network.

2) The only way we show them our might is to bomb the fuck out of them. I assure you innocents will die, but that is the unfortunate casualty of slaying the devil in Mortal Combat.

3) While a Spec-ops raid will be nice, it will take the combined forces of all branches of the military in conjunction with spec-ops raids, full scale land invasion, tomahawk bombardments, and air raids.

4) Only the extreme Islamic Jihad fundamentalists view the Koran in such a way. I saw Yasser Arafat in near emotional shock at the sick twisted use of violence. This attack has been condemned by nearly all (except for Saddam "who is so DAMN insane" Hussein

5) This is to Mort and Grifter: My points in number two are correct. Yes, there are 34 million in Afghanistan. No, they are not all harboring him. Bin Laden has some desert terrorist camp, it isnt like he is hiding in downtown Kabul. The Taliban will be roasting once it is official that Bin laden did this.

6) This is a new point. Do not be surprised to see a joint US/Russian Air Strike at Afghanistan. Bin Laden has also pissed off our Russian buddies with his antics in Chechnya.

7) aha, you were talking about invasion rules of engagement, gotcha ?;)

8. If the Pope is assassinated by a suicide bomber, kiss the middle east goodbye. That would set off the holy wars again and all arabs would be open for target practice.

9) World War III is out of the question, it has no merit being brought up here.

10) thank you for reading this post, make sure to read my other masterpiece at the top of page 3.

11) I hope that we all take time off to ourselves, no matter your religion, and say a word of thanks to the almighty God that we are safe, but at the same time, say a prayer to all families who were afflicted by this horrendous disaster.

well, time to join in on this one.
alright, lets see, firstly, this crap about a wwIII: #1, you cant start a war agains a terrorist group, much less a world war. #2 even if it was found that a country supported the terrorists (money, protection, etc.) there probably wouldnt be a war, on the other hand, (#3) IF there was a war, it would certainly not be a world war. the only way a war can escalate to that, is to have 2 major super powers fighting each other, right now almost every country on the planet has rallied around america and NATO has just invoked article V.

I feel horribly helpless of what just happened to those 20 000 people. but i worry about how this will change the world. with the wtc destroyed, the world economy will suffer severly. possibly causing a reccesion. It's going to be impossible to predict how this will change the world as we know it.

this is one of those times in history; pearl harbour, jfk shooting, and now the wtc attack. where you remember what you were doing when you heard, what you felt, and how it changed history, and the world as we know it. in the death of these 20 000 people, a new world will be born. and i fear it will not be the world we once lived.

UPDATE:  Notrudomus made this quote in 1654 as it says.  Now, do u think a guy that died in 1653 would of been able to make a quote about the future in 1654?  8) Just thought id let u guys know that the Quote is fake

#1. Most of those post here where totally bullshit and useless.

#2. Most of u guys here are a bunch of hysterical whimps who feel to be on the side of good if u demand to kill some 100.000 people or more and then say "now thats justice" for that Terror Attacks.

#3 Assassin: U seem not to know anything about the region we talk there. No wonder when i permanently read here Afghanistan would be in Arabia (whats untrue - so maybe some of u should upgrade their geographic knowledge before crying for going to holy war.

#4 all your religions can suck my dick! and u too. If Christians and Moslems go over rule #1 that easy (U SHALL NOT KILL ...) then take your faked religiousity and put it up into your ass and keep moving it upwards.

#5 I hear many moody american statements here (assassin) "... i dont consider a war against irak, afghanistan and some others as a world war" - DUMBASS! yeah - u little nerd dont even know what will break apart if U.S. troops should land in pakistan. Those Pakistani are the REAL guys behind the Taliban and their pathetic goverment will not survive 1 single day when U.S. Troops have landed there. Imagine what will follow then (pakistan has nuclear weapons too).

#6 if theres a "long, bloody, holy crusade" coming from the west, the moslem people who are NOW with the americans and the victims of that terror, will change their mind if they see dead moslem civilians in their news for weeks, or victims from bombing raids etc.

#7 it already started a massive racist campain against arabs and moslems - yeah feels shit to be called "fukcing arab" for nuthing ...

#8 a lot of u guys where upset about those pictures from cheering palestinians: Haha - IDIOTS!!! U are that easy to manipulate from the media its unbelieveable!
BBC found out: Israel sent those pictures to the news channels and "forgot" to say those pictures where taken after israelis and arafat signed the oslo peace treathy.
NICE eh? But they already reached what they wanted: All your minds are filled with desire for revenge and so u dont even care anymore who will die next.

#9 i hope some of u will hold off a minute of silence too, each time israel invades another part of palestinian "autonomy" areas, and after each Bomber Raid over afghanistan where people will be dead defenitely.

#10 i am tired to read all this SHIT here so consider this one as my last statement - arguing with DUMBASSES leads nowhere. and its not even FUN about this heavy and world-changing issue.

regards - peace (a dream)

Bander,

Again, I find myself agreeing to 95% of what you've said here.  I've said most of it myself.  Especially the part of not bothering to argue anymore......

As for the other 5%, we can talk about it civilally, in private, if I see you online.  It's not worth discussing here, as only a few of us will get it.

Try not to fall into the anger, hatred and fear that cause many people, both here and everywhere else, to speak before they think, to react instead of act.

Peace.

wow bander, this is coming from a Euro who is all talk and no action. (referring to NATO members being pussies except the Brits...all talk and no action)

The holy war thing was in response to SBD's post about the Pope getting killed. I know that Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not Arabia. And, I was not "crying for a holy war." Merely meaning that even though Afghanistan is not densely populated with Arabs, the people (terrorists that we are after) they harbor ARE arabs (Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda Group). Read up on what everyone says before making stupid ass comments.

Funny thing though. Watch the FUCKING NEWS. Pakistani people are complying with us fully. Look at what their military is doing right now...they sealed the god damn border. Plus, the Pakistani's wont mind us being there because the U.S. has agreed to help them settle the Kashmir dispute and to lift sanctions which are plaguing the people of an already poor nation.

NO, I am not a blood hungry American. I am a sensible American who thinks that the only way to stop him is to kill him. I do not wish death on all but some innocents will die-as they have in every war ever fought in the history of this planet.

Also - DUMBASS - the definition of a World War is war that encompasses all hemispheres of the world. Look up definitions and be more smart before calling people a dumbass.

-No offense should be taken personally by Europeans unless you personally agree with what your gov't is doing.-

I went home for a weekend hoping that this thread and the stupidity herein would die. I was wrong.

I avoided the thread for two more days, once again hoping that this thread and the stupidity herein would die. I was wrong.

First of all, the Nostradamus quotes are legit, someone just made a mistake in dating them. Trust me on this one. Ok, matter closed, next please...

The source of the latest outrageous claims have been from Assassin and, much to my dismay, Bander.

Let me address Assassin first. First of all, we only have two hemispheres dipshit. I guess this means that the Falklands War was a World War. Thank you for enlightening me on that one. Also, don't try to cover your ass and say no offense to the Euros who you called pussies at the start of your post. Not only is it pointless, but it's pretty cowardly. If you want to make a statement, you better stand by it. Finally, don't talk down to Bander. Despite his recent emotion-induced postings, he is still a well respected member of this community. You are in no position to be calling him (or pretty much anyone else for that matter) a DUMBASS.

Now for Bander. It is sad to see that you have sunk to the same levels as some of the other people posting on this subject. Statements like "all religions can suck my dick" are just as bad, if not worse, than some of the anti-arab comments here. Also, it kinda tough to have a moment of silence for a raid on Palistine when one of their suicide bombers killed 32 Israelis the week before. I agree with your point that saying slurs like "fucking arab" is totally out of line, but then you get mad about us cursing the Afghans who harbor OSAMA FUCKING BIN LADEN. In my eyes, even if he didn't do it, Afghanistan deserves any shit that comes their way for harboring that bastard in the first place.




On one final note, I would like to quit trying to be reasonable and sink back into being an ugly American for the moment (I have avoided this for the most part, so dont jump all over me)
My uncle who works in the defense industry had clients from the Pentagon out with him the day of the attack. He obviously knows just a little about what these guys went through. Later, he said, "Afghanistan has been a wasteland for 1000 years, let's make sure it stays that way for another 1000"

Bander, even if others disagree with what you said, I don't.  Aside from a couple innapropriate comments, most of which Ace already pointed out, you were 100% right.

Grifter, believing to be one of the persons who would "get it", as in understand your gripes with bander, I'd like you to inform me what said disagreements are. You don't have to post em, just email em to me, or come online once in a while.

Ace, you say that that bashing those who harbor "Osama fucking bin ladin" is ok.  I'm not going to agree or disagree, I suppose that is mostly a personal call.  

I will say this though:

Under international law, proven terrorist Osama Bin Ladin is a war criminal, for comiting crimes against humanity. He is being protected and sheltered by the Afgans.

Under international law, former secretary of state Henry Kissenger and former secretary of defense Robert McNamara are war criminals, for comiting crimes against humanity. They are being protected and sheltered by the Americans.

Ace, it's just something to think about.



(For all those who are a little slow, yes I am comparing former cabinet members to the most vile and hated terrorist in the world)

I thought a World War was a war that dealt with all the continents (besides Antartica).

As with Kissenger and McNamara...you may think what they did makes them war criminals but The Hague has not brought any indictments against them like they have with bin Laden so they technically are not war criminals. So in turn, the U.S. is "not harboring" them.

"FUCK ALL RELIGIONS" or something like that sounds very immature and unappropriate to me. Shame on you *DAMN Bander

Hey postmaster...who the fuck are you, anyways...??

Heyas -

greetings to ace on first place and thanks for your post man. i know u are one of the "ugliest" americans but i also know u try to make your own mind on things too - so i consider u as pretty un-ugly dude ;), respect.

Before i will answer that ASS?s post which is a comparson of mental disrupted garbage for my taste i want to explain what i mean when i actually say: The Moslems, Jews and Cristian Reliogious Leaders in Far East are mostly those who make people upset there "cuz the holy finger of our muslim phrophet is burried there, we must get that territory - or "oh man the holy ribs of our holy rabbi are on the temple-hill - people go fight for them!" or "We are religious Protestants so we demand that your chatolic kids dont go to school anymore here - or we drop bombs on em" - and so on and so on ...

where are all this self proclaimed "holy-men" really? If the mullahs, priests and rabbis in far east would be honest and good people who live to all their 3 religions we would NOT have to worrie about peace there. But instead of meeting all together (the religious leaders there) they all run their own (power possessed) holy wars there. THATs why i meant "Religions u can go to hell". I mean the "officials" of that world religions. They showed themselves as unable to follow even the basic rules of their own religions (u shall not kill...). So i hope now u understand better what i mean.

now i will answer to that ass?s and that other morons post ...

Mort, I think that you are blowing this out of proportion. I would really like you to further explain how their actions (I'm assuming you are talking about their roles in 'Nam) make them war criminals. In that case, Kennedy and LBJ were war criminals too.

Fassst, who cares who he is, he is making good points.

A short break for postmaster:

I really dont care what u think a "real" world war is. But when there is war on most places on earth, almost on all continents and even within our brains, hearths and own mothercountries - i CALL this a world war.

And believe me (i am still hoping i am totally wrong, but the chanches are around 5% i fear): If its coming it will hit you too, in your own house and not only the people u will see dying on TV everywhere. It must be no bomb or other shit - but when the world drops into a recession we will be "victims" too - actually we face the same "singns and clouds of war" like before the 1. and 2. world war. And if u study history and read what politicans said before the outbreaks of WW1 and 2 u will read same shit like they say today:

New World Order
The Mother of all wars
The one War that will end all others
Reaching 1000 years of peace (actually we only demand 100 years)
The state of evil

etc. etc. etc.

unfornantely politicans are way to stupid to imagine new ways of talking crap - so this is why its always the same i think ...

Okay Ass - now to my response on your amazing post there: (i will start on the top and work me down till im on the bottom of the shit u left there)


wow bander, this is coming from a Euro who is all talk and no action. (referring to NATO members being pussies except the Brits...all talk and no action)


(response):
Mr. Idiot - listen and learn: 1.: Once upon a time some euros decided to bring up some action and conquered america (maybe u already heared rumors about). 2.: In newer times some other euro-pussies set up this web site to be a platform for an international community to excange their minds and get in touch eith each other. If those wouldnt have set up some action u could not even post your clever posts here. Might we be Pussies for some of u cuz we thrust words and negotations more than sending troops and risking their and others lives. I must admit that western-europe is AS guilty as the U.S. for robbing out and surpressing the 3rd world and other poor countries - and why using expensive brute force when u can reach your goals with some cheap "talks" instead? U are the biggest pussie here (even when u might not have seen a real one that far u seem to know what it is).


The holy war thing was in response to SBD's post about the Pope getting killed. I know that Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not Arabia. And, I was not "crying for a holy war." Merely meaning that even though Afghanistan is not densely populated with Arabs, the people (terrorists that we are after) they harbor ARE arabs (Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda Group). Read up on what everyone says before making stupid ass comments.


(response):
Mr. idiot: Yes - u managed to post one sentence of truth - the last one of these above. Obey your own "wise" statements mr. clever. So after your argumentation: There was one WTC Terrorist coming from Tunesia, anothers from Algeria & Maroc, Their Bosses are Saudis, u saw palestinians cheering, saddam made some hostile statements again, egypt is suspected cuz "their pilots are known to be good" (wow heavy suspecious), palestinians are "natural born" terrorists, russia is happy that we now see that "Checenians" arent freedom fighters but terrorists too, iran was calm last times but who cares: once a terrorist always a terrorist (same with ghaddaffi) - so this is your list of enemies so far: Tunesia, Algeria, Marrocco, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, (non existing) Palestina, Iran, irak, egypt (maybe - how dare they to have good pilots. its their own fault.) - and if u check it out: there is no Afghan among these. so if u attack afghan people and also demand them to be nuked u should also exterminate all those other countries where the "active" and "executive" terrorists too (following your argumentation)


Funny thing though. Watch the FUCKING NEWS. Pakistani people are complying with us fully. Look at what their military is doing right now...they sealed the god damn border. Plus, the Pakistani's wont mind us being there because the U.S. has agreed to help them settle the Kashmir dispute and to lift sanctions which are plaguing the people of an already poor nation.


(response):
U defenitely shouldnt mix up your cartoon channels with real news for adults u moron: Pakistan is your allie? LOL! The Taliban Movement COMES from Pakistan (it was BORN there), Pakistan is one of the 3 countries worldwide who accepted the Taliban as official afghan goverment, their secret service is the MAIN supporter of the Taliban (Fuel, Ammo, Intelligence), The Taliban all got trained in Pakistan + Most Taliban are Pakistani. Their corrupt and weak goverment can promise what it wants (i guess they have their parcels packed and will leave pakistan as soon as poss too now) - if their people see the first U.S. soldiers landing there they will be overthrown and then we have the REAL mess there. Those Taliban dont have to INVADE Pakistan in case they support the U.S. on an attack on Afghanistan cuz they are ALREADY there. Important: U will help them to solve the Kashmir conflict? Hahahaha - unbelieveable! Did Spielberg tell u this? Yeah - during the 3. world war we will solve this. lol.

NO, I am not a blood hungry American. I am a sensible American who thinks that the only way to stop him is to kill him. I do not wish death on all but some innocents will die-as they have in every war ever fought in the history of this planet.


(response):
Yes u are not an blood hungry american - u are a stupid bloodthirsty warmonger who doesnt even deserve to call himself an "american" for my taste.  "... I do not wish death on all but some innocents will die-as they have in every war ever fought in the history of this planet." - THIS statement could be excatly the words given to those damn Terrorists by their Bosses before they went of to their work of destruction. U are a GODDAMN idiot Ass! Its just unbelieveable what crap a single ape like u can talk in one post! if america wouldnt be inhabitated by such morons like u it would be some BIG steps closer to real GREATNESS!


 Also - DUMBASS - the definition of a World War is war that encompasses all hemispheres of the world. Look up definitions and be more smart before calling people a dumbass.


(response):
LoL - so thats your definition. Go and argue with your mongo-friends about their opinion in this - i think u never took a look on "all hemispheres of this world"  lately, otherwise u wouldnt call this as an arguement for u. The war-machinery is actually boosting up that whole conflict after that terror strikes to an "war of the cultures" and u still talk such crap??? This might get worser than WW1 + 2 together. But u proably just know what war means from some "patriotic" war-movies from hollywood (the good guys always win close to the end, there is no blood if someone gets shot, they just fall down and are death, all wars are over after 90 to 120 minutes, the U.S. always win, the enemy is always evil and too stupid to seek cover in firefights, also only the good guys have real bullets the enemy has "training" ammonition etc etc - this  is  H o l l y w o o d! pure fiction - a real war is CRUEL! check it!)


-No offense should be taken personally by Europeans unless you personally agree with what your gov't is doing.-


(response):
too late u little pantypisser: maybe u find it ok to insult me in these times cuz i am "the enemy" but to call also all of us Euros (except brits) as Pussies made yourself to the legetime bearer of the title "DUMBASS" from now, wich is only given to the most professional morons on this forums. personal statement: My goverment can do what it wants i still make my own opinion u braindead robot. No offence too Assassin: U are an idiot.

Final Cut:
My last days on Gameranger (Nick Names and Host names):

Kill Bin Laden and Afghans (R6 Host)
Nuke Afghanistan (Nick Name)
Fucking Arabs go to hell (Game Name Ultima 3)
Killing all Afghans (Nickname)
Afganistan will die (Game Host for Quake)
Moslems are all Terrorists (Host name)

Guess people like Assassin have lotta people in GR who think as he does. They basically make me sick. They made me sick before the WTC drama and now they annoy me even more. Once they where called racists but today they hide behind the image of "patriots".

Greetings all my friends who show me that im still one of them when i  play aside them on GR: Americans, Euros, Asians, Chinese?s - i dunno.

I bet if young Afghans would have Computers and Internet Connections we would be able to call many of em as good friends too here. Of course only those of us who are one step ahead in mind compared to racist slurs and mongobrains like ass and comparsion.

Good bless not only the U.S. - God bless all likeable people on this planet

greetings and good luck  my friends

by the way: those different type styles on this board work as less for me as assassins brain works for him.

so dont get confused: there is always what assassin posted and my response to that crap. Easy for not-assassins LOL.

greets - i am outtahere (if i see fukcing bin laden somewhere i bring him over to u. You can keep ur money then (reward) and spend it to the poor people too - just gimme a map where i find that swine. Make a big "X" where he is ;)

Btw.:

i personally dont give a shit on so called "proof" or indictments coming from CIA, FBI or any other secret service of a western country where we will never SEE those "proofs". Those proovs just exist in the media maybe, cuz no one would step up to the FBI and say: "Okay good work FBI - pls show me the proof." - And i bet we will never have a "alive" Bin Laden speaking about his supporters in a trial - cuz THIS would be not cool for many western goverments.

PERSONALLY: I want to see Bin Laden Death. Our Tajik traditions say hes doomed for killing our Commander Massood! And cuz there is NO one else who could have wished Massoods Death i KNOW for sure (as most afghans) that those stinky Taliban and their fukcing Saudi-Dude are behind this.
SO ONCE MORE: I support any operations against the Taliban Militia done on GROUND with air support in cooperation with local afghan Anti-Taliban Mudjaheddin who ALREADY offered the U.S. their full support after the murder of their leader. We (the North Alliance) have set up 15.000 war-experienced (20years) fighters ready for combied operations against the Taliban. Hope bush will take this option wich would help the U.S. to be not seen as another invader (after the brits and the russians) by the regular afghan people. But if they feel to be bombed out for having done nothing (Taliban are forbidding any TV, radio and stuff - they get not news like we are used too here) they will start to defence themselves. Afghans have nothing left than bloody and cruel memories on one drame after the other - and their "proud". So if u wanna go there and take their proud also they will fight with claws and teeth if it must be. And i would understand this totally.

regards

Bander is pretty much right, but there is one little exception

We have pretty much bullied Pakistan into being our little bitch. Last time I checked, they had agreed to let us fly over their airspace if we feel like (obviously for any attack on afghanistan) also, they might be letting us land troops if we huff and puff enough

Hello Ace dude -

I just dont trust any Taliban?s Words. And i dont thrust those Pakistani goverment. (Their "ruler" overthrowned the last goverment to replace it - military - and in pakistan its really common to remove goverments that way). I am just HEAVY worried about the "cleverness" of the planners of any military operation in that region.
Just remember: The (cursed) Taliban Movement has his roots and strongholds in Pakistan.
(a friend of mine is pakistani {sulfi} - and i will not let this get personal between "regular" pakistani people and myself - GRRRRR its hard cuz pakistan harmed afghanistan very much already by rising those Talibans and supporting them against our resistance).

I hope the International-Operation Corps will establish a cooperation with the "north allaince" (anti-taliban fraction, the troops of now assassinated commander massood). I heared now it is planned to use special ground forces for "in & out" operations (good!) and i swear: if those units would side with the "north alliancers" they would be awesome against any taliban resistance (AND this would show the afghan people - WE and the americans have started to fight against the Taliban together - instead of being invaded by international troops).

There is still the chance that Bush will surprise us all with a real good and fair plan to answer that terror! I just hope "Borderless Justice" will not end in a "War without Borders".

Send the "role models" of SIX, *DAMN and SEALS there, wish em luck and sucess and all this could be solved without a massive escalation. Lets not answer Terror with Terror.

Hey - yesterday they interviewed New Yorker People on what they think about "venegance". And i was very impressed that exactly those people who got hit so bad seem to be those with the wise-opinions. I was really (positive) surprised by those NYers they interviewed and now they dont only have my blessings but also my honest respect!

Once again, I have no idea about what has been going on in this thread, since every tiem I check it there are 20 more post to read... and I'm just lazy to read them all. So I just wanted to be the 72nd post  ;D

Hmmmm - i was reading aces posts again and found out hes a moron and i understood some things he said wrong. Now i figured out: Ace is an asshole too.

And yeah - insead of continue that discussion HERE its much easier for u hysterical-warheads to start a new thread where u can continue to demand "bombs", "nukes" or any other bullshit after ur taste.

U crackheads listen: A real WAR remains people DEAD, scattered, raped, starved, burned to ashes, frozed to death, crippled and so on! And at last i DONT make any diff between stupid nationalitys or races. a dead human IS a dead human. But most of u morons seem to think if they are at war and they DIE, they just have to wait on the HOST to start their game again.

I already had my time at the austrian army: and one thing i learned for sure there: WAR isnt a thing u can get under control. To die or survive in war is like a russian roulette. Since my army time i really know that (infra-red rifle, field-maneuvers).

but its senceless to discuss with most of u here. the only thing u seem to be interested is to know where the next burger king is.

greets

Bander, kiss my ass. I think I have a pretty fucking good idea of what war is. War is my uncle going off to a foreign land 30 years ago, not knowing whether he would ever see his family again. War is my grandfather going to Japan 60 years ago, bring his family to live in an occupied nation. War is bastards taking planes and flying them into my country's symbols of freedom and strength. I notice that whenever Afghanistan is brought up, we get four full posts from you ranting about the sanctity of innocent lives, but you only give us a few standard lines about "I'm sorry for what happened to my American friends". If all life is equal, shouldn't your statements be too??

Also, quit fucking stereotyping Americans you ignorant piece of shit. If we are such fat, lazy slobs as you say, why the fuck do we have the best athletics in the world for almost every sport. Hell, my fellow Trojans have more Olympic medals than most nations. You're so fucking hypocritical because right after that, you turn around and yell at other people for stereotyping Afghans. For the record, I have only stereotyped the followers of Bin Laden and the Taliban as evil, a fair assumption. Don't try to argue otherwise.

Ace: If u are such an awesome american athlete go and kiss your ass yourself.

"I'm sorry for what happened to my American friends"
what else do u want??? at last i am sorry for the american people wo suffered. When i look at you and guys like u: You dont even menton about people that are NOT americans.

And to make it clear: In my eyes YOU are a steriotypic nationalist! And blind nationalism is another "evil" thing on this planet (at last some - as u always say: lame - euros learned from history).

So your ancients are heroes! kewl. What would your uncle / grandpa have done when he would have been living on another continent or country? He would just have waved another "flag" and have followed another "leader" into the same war. But i guess this is something u cant imagine cuz u really think u are better than other humans and therefore god made u to be born as american. U make me sick, sick, sick, sick!

Btw.: There are MANY sports where americans suck (without prooving america sucks at all). But as another "stereotypic" about (many) american u simply ignore all sports where u cant compare yourself (like winter olympics). No one is interested into "American" Football here except of some freaks. (Much violence, less sport appeal). And people like u will ALWAYs be the loosers when it comes to "Brain Sports".

U also ignore that i said: My relatives live in america too and get daily abused on street by nationalist fukcers like u actually. Nice - go and play cards with YOUR friends from the very american Klu-Klux Clan, ur nazi-militias (michigan) and all of those dirthbags who can hide their racial face behind american patriotism now! If i would be american i would FORBID those idiots to even touch the union jack! Ace i still remember all your anti-european posts here and so its really no wonder that u spill dirth about non-americans in this brainless way again. Take your patriotism and clean your ass with that. Give ME a space shuttle and will i leave all u morons here alone - bet on that. The thing that i learned after all that madness started (WTC) is this: I always thought at minimum 93% of the world populations are morons but i was wrong - it must be 99,9%!

And i am surprised: Actually the american GOVERMENT is acting way smarter than u american war-heads talk and "demand" here. Maybe i was wrong and Bush will not overreact. We will see. But i am deeply dissapointed about many of my "dudes" from GR and their respectless statements - not only towards afghan civilians but also about "an american counts more than another person from another culture/country.

My point is: Ace is a prototype of an american nationalist. He doesnt really care or respect other country people or their way of live. He just compares "his bright american" nation to others - and then hes marking out everything where america is "better". But its funny that exactly people like him who dont care much about the "outside world" demand to be "world police".
If Ace would come into my flat here and talk such shit about me, europe, austria or asia or afghanistan i would bash him into his face and kick him out there too.
Its people like ace and other "brute posers" who have nothing to offer than brute power, surpressions and non-respect to the rest of the world who prevent the strong nation of the U.S.A. from becoming a real role-model for this whole planet. This is my opinion (again) and if u dont like it send me some tanks and claim infinite justice. Im just a lousy afghan (and half austrian) so i am awaiting "the herrenrasse" to judge over me. lol. u clowns ...

Ancient? I see my uncle in two days. Other than a little gray hair, he is still kicking ass and in great health. You kinda need to be when you are a firefighter and other people's lives depend on you. And no Bander, who says they would be waving another flag if they were born in a different country. My other grandfather was raised in Italy. He had an American flag draped over his coffin at his funeral for some limited military service.

Hahaha, don't even try to argue against American athletic dominance. With the exception of soccer, we excel at nearly every sport imaginable. Hell, we send our college kids to shit kick other countries pro's in sports like baseball and basketball. Winter Olympics? We are third in all time total medals. I didn't even bother checking the Summer Olympics because we dominate them every single time. Brain sports? What sports would you consider Brain sports? I'm betting that no matter what you come up with, we excel. Baseball requires a lot of intelligence, and damn we dominate that pretty thoroughly.

As usually u reply with substanceless rethoric and ignore what i replyd in the detail. Aces Philosophy:
What i refuse to see isnt there.

And im not going to insult people who didnt insult me before - but if your grandpa is like u desribed him (1000 years stoneage - make sure there will be another 1000) hes as stupid as u.

hey - its almost impossible to answer in an intelligent way on your "me, me, me, best, best, best" brabbelings.
Its annoying, stereotypic and totally not from any interest.

"But i am deeply dissapointed about many of my "dudes" from GR and their respectless statements - not only towards afghan civilians but also about "an american counts more than another person from another culture/country."

Yay for hypocrisy. Maybe you should look at your own statements. You're constantly making disrespectful comments about Americans.

Bander, my grandfather did not make that comment (He was raised in the South, so we aren't going to get into a few of the colorful expressions he learned) That was my uncle. Not the firefighter, but the one who was with clients and friends from the PENTAGON the morning of the attacks. Just think about that for a little while.

Just some days left and u will have your dead people Ace. Maybe u are lucky and there is some "colleteral damage" too for u to enjoy. (i guess on the weekend, when people dont have to work and can "watch" that spectacle on TV). So keep ur flag ready to wave.

Look guys, I think we should just drop this friggin threat.  It's obviously bringing out the worst in people here.  It's not helping your images.
Now, Im not one to single people out, but Bander, I had more respect for you before this even happened.  With your Anti-American statements and whatnot.  I mean, to a degree I see your point.  We do think of ourselves as the best nation because we have so much freedom (most we don't know about until we see others repressed on the evening news) but yet, we have a pride in our country, which is obvious, and when someone calls us out, we're right there ready to back everything we stand for.  
In some other threads I heard people comparing the US to Hitler and all...and then it went back to the fact that Hitler was an Austrian...Ect ect.  Well, the US isn't innocent...so don't go blaming Hiter on Austria guys.  Remember what we did to the Native Americans?  Yes, they were our "jews".  We took land from Mexicans, we were gurrilla fighters durring th Revolutionary War.  Acts of terrorism against the British were an everyday thing.  We have a checkered past just like all other countries.  Some things we aren't proud of...and yet, some we are.  
This isn't they type of thing I'd like to see in the threads.  Now I know you all love your countries...and dislike some...but don't go stating it to everyone.  Bander, you can't get Ace to change his mind of his view of the US.  And Ace...*sigh*...apparently you can't get Bander to see your point (which is sad).  
So c'mon you guys...no more arguing about this shit, ok?  I know I sound like a priss, but sheesh...this is terrorism we're talking about.  There's a form of it in EVERY nation.  Yes, even in America.  So Bander, don't think we're intentionally going after your Aunt or Grandma's house or whoever it was.  Terrorists are our target...not your family.  And no...nobodys putting a bomb though your front door.  

Hey Postal  -

look, the way u wrote your post here is not offending like the others. u point out good  things but also are not ashamed to admit that there are not that good things also. while "others" here only see black/absolutely "Good" and white/absolutely "Evil". If someone is able to accept the "greyscales" also like u then its really cool to discuss to such a partner.

for excemple i DO know that darn hitler was a austrian too (if i would be an austrian "ace" i would answer maybe like this: in austria hitler wasnt even allowed at the arts academy and only the "evil" germans gave him the power afterwards. or i could rever to the "unfair" peace threaty in versailles and declare it was the social troubled times who let this happen - but this would be only blabla. its TRUE. and i have no problem to say yes we are still ashame for this shithead austrian - even those who wherent even born then.

i just dont need no statements about "collateral damage is necessary" from guys who sit in front of their macs all the time - who are moody enuff to add some "my nation peoples lives are more worth (2 to 1, to be exactly) than others. and when it came to national pride (best, best, best) then it was finally over with rational discussing about REAL ongoings out there.

and - i compared ace and his followers with those freaky nazis (when it came to nationalism and better-race shit) i did NOT mean  the U.S. nation (i extra marked it out also - but didnt work. ).

My mistake was to let me provocate to a stupid and dumb "good/bad" discussion with my ex-friends.
So when Grifter or the other 2 say they lost respect for me - i really dont care after i know how they are thinking about various issues. i also have my pride.  but when u say same thing it really hurts me. Congrats to my "enemies" - u managed it to divide me and postal.

Look to make it short: Most of our *DAMNs are americans (how comes? dont those others say i "hate" americans?) - ask our U.S. DAMNs if they still want me in *DAMN or not. if they dont need me anymore or dont respect me like before too - i will simply leave GR. i already feel somehow "outnumbered" there.

greets post

QUIT FUCKING MISQUOTING ME.

I said the lives of American SOLDIERS are more important the lives of SOLDIERS who fight for Bin Laden and/or the Taliban. I never said that the lives of Americans in general were more important than any other nation in general. I made a specific reference to the military. And yes, I still believe this, 2:1, 20:1, 200:1. If those people are despicable enough to fight for Bin Laden and/or the Taliban, they are worthless, terrorist pieces of shit in my opinion. Our boys are out there fighting to protect Americans.

QUIT FUCKING COMPARING ME TO HITLER

I never said we are a superior race or any bullshit like that. Yes, I said America is a superior nation to all others, but so what. I'm proud of my country. It's not like I said go kill every Afghan. In fact, I said that we should try to avoid killing innocent Afghans if at all possible. However, if we must go to war, there will most likely be a few civilian casualties. This is a fact of war. We shouldn't let the terrorists go unpunished because of this.

Postal,
Couldn't agree with your last post more.  It's exactly what I tried to say in another thread.  When I brought up that Hitler was an Austrian, I was trying to make the point that it doesn't matter WHERE he came from... it's what he did.  I don't blame Austrians or Germans of today for what happened 60 years ago... I don't blame the American government for what happend to my ancestors (being 25% Cherokee) 150 years ago.  What matters is what we do about it today.

Ace, Bander isn't listening... you are wasting your breath.  He's taken some text out of context and wont let go.  He doesn't know anything about us, and he doesn't want to... I think it would hurt his self image.  Like I've said before, I don't agree with everything you say Ace, but at least you discuss it openly and intelligently.

Thanks PW, maybe we can get back to discussing things rationally now that someone else has said it.

Bander. Sigh. READ my last 50 posts. READ grift?s last 50 posts. READ Ace?s last 50 posts.

You're paraphrasing and taking things completely out of context. Christ. You're arguing points that haven?t even been disputed.

Good points GRIFT, especially about us not always agreeing. Since I'm discussing things intelligently apparently, I guess it's too much for a Scot like you to understand.

Hah, just because your good American education let's you argue a point intelligently.... doesn't mean your blindingly pale irish ass is right.... hehe.

Bander,
  Now, pointing you out specifically wasn't my goal.  Know that.  I was just saying that well...ok, I pointed you out...sorry.  It's just the fact that yes, even people in the same clan (boy this is childish) can lose (some) respect from a leader, or collegue over matters like this.  Now...calling americans fat and dumb probably wasn't the best way to go about this.  Thats stereotyping.  Yea, sure we got some problems...but no country is perfect, let me assure you.  If there was a perfect country...we'd probably be speaking their languauge because they would have couquered us long ago...

Anyway, my point at talking about Bander just goes to show you even you can lose some respect in your friends.  Bander and I have been friends before I was even in *DAMN.  I mean, he was the one who got me in.  Of course I'm going to respect him more than others.  
When I first came on the GR sceen around Sept 00', I didn't know anyone...and I pretty quickly made enemies with then SEALs JohnNothing (big mistake)...but I made some friends...Macsrule, ViRuS Sniper, and Bander.  Thanks to all those guys........anyway, Im getting off the subject...what I really mean to say is thanks Bander, you helped me out alot...don't think I hate you, because that certainly isn't the case.  I'm just stating my feelings.  And no, we don't want you to leave the clan.  Thats silly.  If anyone should leave, I should.  I cause more problems than...well...I cause a lot of shit, lets leave it at that.  

Now, I think we should all make up.  I know we can't take back some of the things we said to eachother (even though the modify button  ;)  )  but just try to get along and no more country bashing.  Thats all I ask.  Lets just get back to the way things were...thats what everyone else in the world is doing...asside from CNN.

so, how about those attacks between Israel and Palistine..... if those fucks over there dont watch what the hell their doing while other war is happening in that general area, they could start a whole new fuckin conflict and fuck everything!

your opinions on these attacks and how they relate to the current world would be appreciated, I'd like to hear them ;D ( except the dumb ones like "kill all those fuckin ragheads and them jews too  >:( )      ;D

Well SBD,

Those Palestinians are really fucked now. Arafat has lost control over the Palestinians and violence will be rampant again. HAMAS and the various Jihads are not helping the matter either. I think both sides were looking for a good blood-letting since neither was truly serious about peace in the first place (If they were, we wouldnt be in this situation). Basically, Israel calls the suicide bombings "terrorism" and the Palestinians call Israeli retaliation "murder." There will NEVER be peace between these two peoples so long as the holy city of Jerusalem stands on the face of this earth.

I have more to say, but I have to go right now...I will add more later.

I just find it funny how the US basically said "Go ahead and fuck those Palistineans up" to Sharon through Powell's comments.

My opinion is that we build a big dome over all of the middle east and the balkans, all those places that can't help but have war. ?We let them go for it without the influence of outside powers. ?Then we check back in in 50 years and analyze what is left.  I don't really favor any side as I think they are all pathetic countries that cause their own problems.  None of the governments in those countries wants anything but to keep a firm grip and to continue depriving their citizens of freedom.

Funny Bondo.... what countries really stay out of wars?

I mean, how many countries haven't been in a war in the last 100 years?  Last 200 years?  Last 300 years?  

War is an extension of polotics.  For good reasons or bad reasons, people can't always get along.  No country is imune... so you better be able to move that dome pretty fast.

The part that always gets me is the dumb shits that kill in the name of God.  I mean, it's just an excuse.. a false one... I find it so disappointing that there are so many dumbasses out there that believe God WANTS them to kill.  Such a waste.  I hope there is a special place in whatever hell they believe in for the people that convince others to kill in the name of God.

As for Palestine... has it even known peace?  That has to be the most fought over strip of land in known history (all the way back as far as the history books go).  I don't think there will ever really be peace there, as long as Jerusalem is controlled by any government.  It's a holy city for too many people.... it needs to be more like Disney World..... just have someone there to clean the place up and take care of it.... let everyone visit.  After all, everyone fighting over it wants to be there because it's sacred... why not just open it up for EVERYONE?  (I'm not blaming the Isrealies for this.. they are just the last in a long line of groups that have laid claim to Jerusalem).  But, damn, why fight over a place that everyone involved holds sacred..... can't we all just get along (ok, that was stupid).

OMG GRIFTER YOU ARE SO SMART. Why hasn't anyone else thought of that in the past 3000 years?



Personally, I think the Irish should kick out the Brits and take over Scotland while we are at it. Those lousy skirt wearing sheep fuckers don't deserve their own lands.

First off, Ace, I'm 1/64th Scottish so lay off.  Secondly, I have the biggest problems with the big religious war that has been going on for thousands of years, I mean, Judism, Christianity and Islam are all partly the same religion.  They are all based on the old testament with various parts added.  I don't see why people get their panties in a bunch about it.  Here is my solution to all this...we all become Buddists

One of the nice things about wearing skirts... er... kilts..... we scott's don't have panties to get all bunched up.

Ace, we know the real reason that you want the Irish to take over scottland... you want the sheep.  Well you can't have them, sorry.  I mean, better a Scottish sheep then an Irish ass...

I'm a little leate in reading this post, and I know it's a bit late to comment now, but I am going to anyway...

I hafta say I agree with zak, it's now where we bomb it's what bomb we use...

How can u say that the US does not know who it is? They had constant threats and constant information about what goes on over there, not to mention that the Us has had many expireneces with this Al Kada terrorist net. I understand that the CIA gets tons of threats a day, and it's there judgement to take each one accordingly, but, with the most advanced intellegence in the world, i believe that they not only know who did it, but they know everyone involved.

The more the US let's things slip by and are always on the forgiving end of things, never to take action, the more of this shit is going ot happen...

Freedom is a privalege and a way of life, if they wanna fuck with that,I say send in the bombers and hit everything and everyone who even looks at u funny.

Excuse my latness and i am sorry if some of the things I said have been said already...i didn't get to read all 4 pages. ;D

Dest, agreeing with zak is a dangerous thing. ?Personally I think we need to stop our cultural imperialism and let people be as primitive as they want. ?It is their choice to accept our culture and it isn't our place to assume our culture is better. ?Then again, any place that demands women wear clothes should be questioned.

Actually Grift, I'm looking into getting a kilt in the MacClaine (sp?) tartan, that is the clan that my 1/64th comes from. ?I've definately got the build to be a scot. ?Now if only I could keep the others from snickering.

i'm 1/4  scottish so THERE.  I got a McClaren kilt, and I go to 2 scottish dinners in chicago a year.  sbd's fun fact:  did you know that sniping was almost invented if not greatly improved by the scots in  WW1? its true, a GHillie Suit is named after the scottish dance shoe called a Ghillie.   My dog is named after the shoe ( Ghillie) .  The scots made the first Ghillie suits to snipe in ww1 and called them ghillie suits because scottish warriors would do a dance on a sword before going into a battle to get pumped up and for good luck i guess.    ::)   <- scottish smiley

As GroundsKeeper Willie used to say on Scotchtoberfest....

"...a kilt is an everyday apparel, but in battle, we used to dawn a full length suit...the idea was to blind your enemy with fashion...yadda yadda yadda...."

I forget the quote...it was when bart put the ballons on his kilt and everyone saw his twiggs and berries.

Can someone help me with this quote above?

YA USED ME SKINNER! YA USED MEEEEEE!

I have a great scottish accent, but i'm italian

Ciao

Any chance you'd know where one would get a kilt and how much it costs?  One thing I'm fairly sure of is there aren't any kilt stores here in Colorado Springs.

Humm... kilts.... I'm 1/4th scott (hell my last name is Cameron, you know, the warrior clan known for their loyalty), but I don't think I would be caught dead in one. ?I really am a mutt though, 1/4 scott, 1/4 dane (how the hell did those two get together??), and the another 1/4 native american, I'll just call the other 1/4 "miscellaneous" because I have no idea what's in it . ?Anyway, I hope a trend doesn't get started of people posting pictures of themselfs in their klits. ?: P
-toon

I'm 1/2 Norwiegian, 1/4 French, and then the last quarter is made up of about 16 1/64ths including scottish, cheroke indian, probably some German, Irish, British too.  Only thing I'm faily sure that isn't in my blood is african, asian, and hispanic.

Bondo, can't you just grab a plad blanket and wrap it around your waist??...i think so..done and done...  ;)

I ignore what weapons we'll use for World War III, but I'm sure we'll use wooden sticks and stones in World War IV.

{850}//<:Albert Einstein:>\\{850}

::) ::) ::)

I'm glad I've ignored this thread and all other serious threads.

I'm 1/4 Scot, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Hungarian and 1/4 German

I get the palest of both worlds, woohoo..

Mort looks good in a kilt, especially on a windy day.

Well Bondo, I'm 1/4 Cherokee (granny still lives on the reservation down in Tenn.) and then mostly Scott with a mix of English.  Funny though, I actually have great teeth....

I got my kilt in Canada (place just outside Toronto).  It cost me about $150 US.  But it is the right tartan.  There were a couple places on the web to get kilts... one from down under comes to mind.  Let me know if you want me to look up the url's (they are probably burried somewhere around here).

And yes, I wore a kilt in my wedding... and yes, I was a "true Scott", and have a picture of the wedding party to prove it (sorry, can't post it here... no matter how much Mort wants to see it.)

Actually, I found a place in my town called the Irish and Scottish Regalia Store so I'll have to check them out before I look elsewhere. ?I still don't exactly know what I'd do with the kilt seeing as I don't know anyone here that does all that Scottish stuff, my dad who would be 1/32 naturally has a few ties in the tartan but that's about as far as he goes with it.

All I know is I'll be comfortable in a kilt, I've worn dresses/skirts before and I'll wear them again...wait, did I say that out loud.   ;D

Grift, where did u buy your kilt??..i live just outside of Toronto....

Bondo if it's close to me, and if grift gives me the place, i'll check out some prices for u, and see if they have mailing info or something u could purchase for shipping...

I'm full blooded Italian!

Dest ;D

Dest, that explains your bad taste in cars =P

I'll look up the place and modify this post with it.  I know it's around here somewhere.  It was in Scarabourgh <sp?> I think.

I know you're all curious to know my ethnicity too!

See, I'm not really sure how to determine the fractions.  I know that 3 of my maternal great-grandparents were Austrian and the other was Russian.  My fathers great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were German.  Everyone else has been born in the United States.  What does that make me?

A lousy no good mutt, but we all knew that a long time ago.