*DAMN R6 Forum

I have been looking over the BL rules about cbing.  I was under the impression that this was a Mac based Battle League only.  And not for PC's because of the IP joining, framerate, and cheating issues.  I did refuse a CB with a clan (Which will of course remain nameless ) beacuse they were using a PC player in the game.  We didnt even start the CB because I never entered the game cause I was waiting for their last player.  This clan told me that it was in the BL rules to allow a PC player to CB with the clans as long as most of the players were Mac's.  
     I myself, and every one of our players thought that this was a Macintosh based Battle League.  for Mac's only.  I do understand that this clan wasnt much to be said about but the simple fact is that PC players up till this season were not allowed in these CB's held in Gameranger.  So I said that we will not CB with a PC player on their team.  They brought in another Mac player I thought to take his place but then they said that he was just leaving cause he had to go.  That is fine with me cause I want to CB but just on my terms and not with PC players period.  I know this is just a game, but I want the game played as fair as possible.  Even if we are the better team.  It is the honerable thing to do.    I know we have taken a lot of heat for waiting to play Cb's, and I can understand why other clans would be butt-hurt on our decidion to do so.  It was something that all our clansmen agreed upon.  
     I loved the fact that DAMN took enough time to make sure that Macintosh players had a palce to CB each other from all over the world to determine the strongest Macintosh clans in the world.  that is a great thing, adn i think that we are soiling the Macintosh community by letting PC players play for these clans.
     Macintosh has always struggled with finding a place for them, and some might be like myself that say that PC players should not be able to play for clans on Battle League.  I am one of them, so I do believe in these beliefs of a Macintosh only Battleleague.  Once we let PC's into the picture then we kinda desercrate the only Macintosh based Battle League for Ghost recon or Rainbow Six games in the world.  Please leave input on this.  I am biased about this and I admit it.  But that dosent mean that I dont want to hear objective opinions about this.  Thanks.

+MOD+Saberian.CBl

Hi Saberian,

well PC players were always allowed and since season 3 I added a definition for the BL:

"*DAMN Battle League: clanladder only for MAC(Apple Macintosh) clans operating in GameRanger. Other platform players are allowed in clanbattles as long as the majority is using Macs. Only clanbattles set up through GameRanger are counted;"

It is a Mac only clan ladder but since several Mac players switched to PC and still have contact to the guys in GR I always allowed them. At all you probably don't play against unknown people just the same from GR few months ago.

Bye,

Mauti

OK, so PC players are allowed within CB's then.  Well, if this is the case then I am under the assumption that IP joining is allowed as well for all the other players.  I mean PC players cannot log onto Gameranger.  So therefore the only way for them to play in CB's is to IP join.  It would only be fair that Mac's as well be allowed to IP join because of this.  
     I was also under the assumption that we wearnt allowed to IP join for the simple fact that it would allow a PC player to play a CB without being noticed because there is no real way of knowing if the player is using a PC.  Plus the unfair advantage that PC players dont have to join through Gameranger like all other Mac's do.  So since PC players can play CB's I will assume that Mac players can now IP join as well.  I do not think that we can have a Mac only Battle League if you allow even some PC's play within CB's.  Weather the PC player is good or not it should not make a difference.   I can understand that you want you're buddies with PC's to be allowed to play and I can understand to a point, but If we are a Mac only Battle League, then PC's should not be allowed to play CB's for that simple reason.  
     I took pride in this Battle League because of the fact that it was a Macintosh based League only.  Now we have PC players as well in this league which is not a fair thing to anyone with a lower end Mac.  Let's face it, most people with Mac's have much slower systems then the PC counterparts.  So many of the Gameranger Patrons are going to have serious issues against a PC with 2x - 6x the speed and graphical capability compared to the slower Mac's.  Ya see, this throws the Macintosh Battle League way out of whack.  I am sure I am not the only one that feels kinda betrayed by this dereliction of Mac only gaming.    PC had so many problems with hacking and whatnot that I was glad to be into the Mac only thing because less people were trying to cheat and whatnot.   Now this opens the door to clans using even more hacks to overcome the opposition, and less skill.   And creates a level of gameplay unsuitable for even gaming.    Plus this just allows more people to get PC's and replace their Mac's for the more efficient gaming experience.    
     You say that this is a Mac only Gaming League.  Please keep it that way.  I have a PC because my fiance' uses one for work, but I am a Mac only player.  So please, either make it Mac only again, or allow all system styles to use the same abilities.  Including IP joining and not only through Gameranger.  But then, even if we are mainly Mac's, this will no longer  be a Mac gaming Community, but a mixed gaming League, and we will start to have the same problems that PC gaming leagues are suffering from now.

+MOD+Saberian.CBl

Another issue that is being done is the fact that the clan member will not use his Mac, instead he will use his PC to play the CB cause it is way more efficient.  Again this presents a problem with the Macintosh Gaming experience.  It seems that there are people that do that as well.  Trying to gain an advantage by using a PC cause now it is legal in Battle League to do.  Again this is unfair for all the true Macintosh players.

+MOD+Saberian.CBl

IP joining and PC players are only banned in the AK/*DAMN 1vs1 RS tournament due some of the facts you named but the BL always allowed other platform players as long as they belong to a Mac clan.

Well I'll think about it.

Bye,

Mauti

TY, I appreciate you thinking on the subject Mauti.  I myself have apretty high end mac, but I am thinking of all the other potential Mac players in the clans, either in ours or theirs, that do not.  It only makes sense to keep a Mac only Battle League Mac only, but you are the one that runs this whole deal, so you must be the one to decide the outcome of this.  In the end I will have to accept whatever decision you make upong this.  And since this was the only Mac only gaming league I really do not have a choice on the outcome.  I am a dedicated Macintosh gamer since 1984, and my heart and sould belongs to Apple.  I feel that I must speak up for the Macintosh community because I have always done so.  Thanks for hearing me out on this

+MOD+Saberian

The clans that are taking in PC players are hurting themself in the long run. It is a lot easier to get some good team work if you can play together and talk together on game ranger.  Plus it is less fun for the PC player. Game ranger doubles as a nice chat program where mac gamers can meet mac gamers. That pc player is thus unable to chat with their mac opponents. I don't really see why a PC player would join a mac gameranger league. I don't see a problem with it neither.

I think it would be fair to just have a vote from all the players on GR to see...

I also have always thought it was completely unfair to step into a cb against somebody with a 2.4 ghz pentium4 or whatever they have...as you can see that system would allow somebody to thrash my imac400...look at ejo now that he has a pc...with double the framerate and speed he can just zip around and pick off the sitting ducks with macs. It's fine if PC players just wanna play regular games with their old buddies, but as far as the BL goes it should be Mac only.

I see that PCs are allowed to cb in Damn Mac-Only Battle League.  Does this mean I can cb with my Cray Supercomputer?  I don't see why not...Thanks Damn BL!  I will own all you clans with your measly PCs and Macs!

See BL news about this issue.

Mauti,

    Thank you!  That's what I wanted to hear! Of course you know my previous post was at the height of my sarcasm.  I don't have a Cray Supercomputer so please don't ban me lol! I only play Ghost Recon on my MAC with and against other MAC users.  i am friends with PC people but it doesn't mean I have to cross-platform game with them.  I appreciate your considering the whole debate and making your ruling above.  You are alright by me!

SturmSoldat

Quote From Mauti ---

And last but not least I have changed the definition of the BL as Mac only ladder:

- *DAMN Battle League: clanladder only for Mac(Apple Macintosh) clans and players operating in GameRanger. Ip joining as well as other platform players are only allowed if both clans agree. Only clanbattles set up through GameRanger are counted;

Well Mauti, I'm sure you know that with this new rule, "Other Platform Players" will not be in any cb's. Before this rule, it was hard enough for me and electronicjo(we are in the clan Fire), to find a cb. We have been turned down many times, especially by Kilzo. This now makes sure pc players wont cb, because if the opposing clan will never agree, and we are screwed.

"Another one bites the dust"

-xoclipse

Well XO, maybe you should have considered all this before you went and got yourself banned from gr, and if you want to cb so badly just go join some pc clan and wiz around with them and their pentium4's. Of course Im not gonna cb against two pc users when I run a imac400, thats totaly a waste of my time...so deal with it and good day.

Kilzo scares easily.

You are welcome in any of *DAMNs cbs! Well of course it is complicated to get you in some cbs and that was the reason why I changed the rule next to some other reasons.

however I'm sure you will have the opportunity to play against clans where the players know you like KOS!

Good luck,

Mauti

Yeah, thats it kilzo, I went and "got myself banned". Why don't you come home one night, turn your computer on, go to gameranger, and find out your perma-banned. Oh and the best part is, I dont even know why I was banned.

Nah, I prefer kicking your ass.

So your saying us "pc people" own you, because we have better computers, what about the guys on gr with Dual 1-GHZ G4's? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Why is it a total waste of your time, because you suck, and need to make up lame excuses when people own you?

btw, getting your ass kicked could be considered a waste of time, good thinking kilzo!

lmfao....xo takes everything so personally....and Hazard can blow me (again I mean, the first time was great...nice suck haz ). First off xo, bashing me and saying you own will not get you any more respect or make you look cool. We all know I suck at rs so owning me is no big deal. Second off, yes I do think pc ppl and some mac users with fast ass comps have a helluva better chance than ppl with slow ass macs, thats a fact not an excuse. Thirdly, you prefer kicking my ass? LMAO, I guess that translates into ? I can't kick anybody in the PC worlds ass so to feel better about myself I like to play ppl with computers half as fast as mine or worse to make myself look good ? get a fucking clue retard...come in and talk more big shit like Im sure you will...as most Fire members are like that, and see how far it gets you.

I've let you play my host many times as you ip joined, don't plan on it anymore....and yea..Im sure you just came home one night and was perma for no reason...just like everyone in jail is innocent...pffff...now go hack some more and maybe, just maybe you can go and get yourself banned from here as well.

LOSER

Kilzo you don't have the right to call anyone a loser after making a clan winning 2 cbs then losing one so you disband it, then doing that 5 times. You are just scared. Admit it. This isn't about "looking cool" it is about you being a little baby and not wanting Pcers in matches. Just stfu go back to whatever you were doing before you decided to make yourself look like a noob.

 Kilzo, your thing about PC players having too good of computers is total bullshit.

Xo is right. There are plenty of us ( myself included ) who get perfect framerates on Rogue Spear.  

First of all haztard...you poked your lil nose in my business, so of course I responded. And what would I be scared of? You? Lmao...I seem to remember handing you a beat down last season so why don't you just STFU and go back to being a wannabe leet player. And Typhy, if you think it's total bullshit play xo on his pc and you play on a imac400 lets see.....you fucking little kids think you know it all, this is my last post in this thread so don't waste your beath anymore..although Im sure you retards will being how uber stupid you are...

 So is it the same when you play against me? I have a better computer than Xoclipse.  

Of course! See Kilzo? :P

I am not sure how the framerates are withing the RS community when it comes to PC's cause I never had the game for PC.  I do know for a fact about Ghost recon, and it does make a serious difference with framerate.  So for you guys arguing with each other, that was really my point here.  That the framerate for ghost recon was seriously different.  Maybe you guys should try opening a RS site about this topic.  Sorry if I confused this situation about which game, but I was specifically referring to Ghost recon.  Now with RS that could be a different story because the engine for RS is definitely different in comparison.  
     Anyway, I do agree with the new rule especially for Ghost recon.  Although maybe the RS thing could be talked about because I am sorry, but I cannot say I know how that would be affected with PC's comparing to Mac's in framerate in Rogue Spear.

Speaking of beat downs big shot didn't I beat you in a 1v1 with a .40 USP pistol on traintracks gold on your server? Ah yes I did. Didn't Infection hand your ass to you 6-0 on storage gold? Oh wait you beat us once at the beginning of the season? Ha, me and psyks handed you your asses twice. Kilzo don't talk about people being leet, I don't claim to be, I claim to see a little punk and thats all you are. See you on the battlefield.

Your lack of knowledge of PC cheats amazes me. Perfect aim is when you always have perfect reticule. Rapid I have seen xo and ejo play with my own eyes they don't cheat. You wouldn't know anything about it untill you have played against a real aimbotter. You don't know for a fact that they have aimbots. And is it possible for someone to just have exceptional aim? Or is it possible that some players actually ALWAYS prefire on certain maps in certain areas.. I know I do.

Nice try haz, but no.  No such coincidence.  Especially prefiring around corners with jammers out in 10 diff maps in 20 out of 25 games.  No such coincidence.  

I know you want to defend your clanmates, in hope they'll be allowed to CB for your clan, but sorry.  It's obvious they cheat, and I'm saying this because I've played with both when they had macs, and now when they have PC's, and their game changed drastically.  While others that have been around just as long, if not longer, have no such luck around corners with jammers out.   As many times as I have seen ejo take wild shots in a general direction, and get 2 or 3 head shots, while the 2 or 3(who happened to be excellent RS players) where shooting back in his general direction, and not being able to hit with the ease he had, yeah, some "coincidence"...  You're over it.  I've seen it with my own 2 eyes, as have many.  You're not going to change my mind, or the mind of those who have experienced it first hand.  

Excuse me Rapid, but aren't you the "heavy" weight fighter?

Sorry Rapid, I can't understand this portion of your post, please attempt to for complete thoughts. Also, expand on your sentence, "Because the Heavy Weight fighter is nice".

Hell yeah Rapid, I agree with you 100%, it's so much fun owning people(you). It's a pity the only people you own are in your own clan, well, if even that.

Rapid I'm there with you, I say we should evenly match people. We could do this by playing in divisions, people who suck(you) against other people that suck(kilzo), and everyone else vs. eachother. It's perfect. I love your problem solving abilities Rapid.

Why don't we? I as well as ejo play in pc games on the MSN Zone, and occasionaly gamespy. Unfortuantely, Urban Ops games are harder to come by, being that there are so many other gaming choices, and rs is an older game, so it is not played as oftenly.

asses*

Oh yeah, we play rs with mac's to feel "superior", just like you are "superior" to the  entire RS Mac Community.

P4's*

Rapid, again, I can not stress enough your need to form complete thoughts. Didn't they teach you this in elementary school?

Yep, it's all our computer. Rapid, go ahead and get on a pc, and I'd love to watch you still suck.

Dude. Ejo owned in KoS he was good on a mac. Xo owned in OOA he was good on a mac. Ok whatever keep telling yourself they cheat.

duh!  I know they were good.  Shit, I've played with them too many fucking time.  The changes in their gameplay is DRASTIC.  Nothing that I've seen anybody do.  Shit, Silvio is good, and he doesn't even get so lucky to shoot in a general direction, and get 2 or 3 headshots vs other good players.  I know wtf I'm talking about.  I also know you really need that "edge" in your clan.  Nobody gets that much better without something fishy going on.  Let alone the fact they're getting 60fps, while we get 20fps on a empty GR day!

PC's and Mac's are not equal, therefore not fair to fight each other.  End of story.  

But if you're from a clan that's obsessed with winning with PC'ers doing their dirty work, hey, it's all good then! :o

Correct.

Rapid, your confusing that with "I'm a noob and walk around every corner while scratching my ass" Nice, Rapid.

Correct.

Rapid, your confusing that with "I'm a noob and walk around every corner while scratching my ass" Nice, Rapid.

Prefire is a tactic that I'm sure many skillful(no, not you) people use. Think of it this way, the "perfect aim", to which you cling to, is actually because the following idea goes in your mind, "I hear someone firing at that corner, let me go walk into the fire and try to shoot him". Yeah...walking into a line of fire usually wont result in anything good, but I'm sure you have experienced this already.


Rapid, my aimbot is not that complex, I even took a picture of it for you, http://66.246.110.207/~xoclipse/aimbot.jpg  -- lol

It's not that the community is so naive, but there are assholes like you who like to cause problems.

Damn, I love how it's "your" community. You speak for about 3 or 4 people in the rs community. Let's see again, who is the the most widely hated player on GameRanger. Uh huh...


Rapid, just leave this thread alone. Any place on the forum you go, you infect it with bad grammar, incomplete thoughts, and plain stupidity. Just...leave.

Sorry for double post. Oh and by the way, Rapid, you still suck.


In Response to Rapid's post:
while the 2 or 3(who happened to be excellent RS players) where shooting back in his general direction, and not being able to hit with the ease he had,

Shit jo, he's discovered our warp bot. rofl

Okay, for those of you who don't have a PC and can't "feel" what it's like with 60fps, I will show you.

Here are three different videos showing the same geometric figure rotating 360 degrees at different frames per second(10, 30 and 100). This should provide a good feel on the difference in FPS. However, the human eye can only notice around 60 - 80 fps, so it's not like 100 fps is super fast compared to 60 fps(I'm not even considering the fact that most monitor refresh rates are 65Hz to 75 Hz. But it is a good indicator of graphics power (especially when it's needed in Raven Shield).

http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J10.mov (http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J10.mov)
http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J30.mov (http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J30.mov)
http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J100.mov (http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/J100.mov)

Now closely compare J30 and J100.  Can you tell how J30's fps isn't as 100% smooth as J100's? But you can easily tell the difference between J10 and J30/J100. Yes, FPS DOES make a playable difference but this should not be an excuse to say PCs have the complete advantages.

Typhy made a good point about this, is that why you want to ignore him?

And don't even try that 20fps on a dual GHz bullshit.

hahahahahah xo.  Is that all you got?  because you have NO case helping you out.  

Anyways, nice try with the mockery and childish insults.  Too bad they did nothing for you. :D

Facts are something you can't run from! :o

Oh wait, but you think you know how to camouflage it.  Hah, you used to.  Now it's all too clear.

Double talking in your posts, won't make you innocent xo.  It proved even further why you shouldn't even be playing in any Mac games on GR.  

Go fight people with pentium4's.  Oh wait, you don't want to get owned.  Yeah, better keep trying to weasel your way in here.   But wait, you're only accepted by your clan.  Ahhhh, cry me a river.

Have a good day 8)

Xo and Ejo only played in about 4-5 cbs combined so how is that dirty work? Rapid keep hiding.

well as some of you know I got the oppertunity to test an aimbot with M4mainman. and the way mainman pwned me with it on isnt anything near how ive seen Xoclipse play mainman got me headshots every time,I see XO get 3-5 hit kills. but I havnt seen XO play much lately so I may be wrong but he has prefired me around a corner maybe 3 times and i never hbs or jamm

also in case you havnt heard the mac duel 1.25 ghz ran programs faster then the 3.06 Ghz pc, of course not many of us have that fast of a mac (i have a 400 imac) but i think the idea of only letting them play if both clans agree was the best way to go to keep everyone happy. however I have no objection to PC players and they are welcome in my host any time.

some of you said that with this rule you will never CB but isnt that your fault for getting yourself kicked off in the first place?

First this PC - MAC comparison is total bs then you could also argue it is unfair that I have to play GR on my 400imac with 13fps or that someone plays GR at 1600*1200 while I have to stick with 640*480 which makes a big difference especially in GR.

This is a game and my decision to disallow IP joining and PC players by default(if both agree they can still play) has nothing to do with hardware it is just easier to observe and to handle issues if all games and players are joining via GameRanger.

It's only a game and only sore losers could argue with such bs arguments like hardware. Sure it makes a difference as well as ping and other things that influence the game much more but who cares. WINNERS ADAPT!

End of story,

Mauti

 

Whoa, where'd you get that idea? My computer:

867g4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Geforce 4.

While I don't belive that RS has an FPS counter, I get perfect framerates on it.

Same with my powerbook:

1GHZ Powerbook g4, 768RAM, 64MB ATI Radeon 9000 Pro.

Perfect framerates.

I play RS at 1600 x 1200. ( I think, to lazy to restart and check. Pretty sure that's the highest one, though ).

Perfect framerates, 1600 x 1200, 22 inch monitor, sexy 5 button mouse, kick ass headphones, and an apple keyboard - are you going to stop playing against me now?

Ah, rapid why are you even talking? Your not on the ladder, you only causes problems.

RS limits 60fps max by default in multiplayer, if your computer sucks, or you play under the min requirements thats your problem. Ejo owned RS when he played under the minimum for a few years on his shitty iBook. Its such bs to claim PC hardware gives an advantage to a PC in RS. RS isn't graphically intensive at all, my 466mhz g4 pulled 90fps in single player when i turned off the fps limiter in the prefs file.

Even in GHR your whining doesn't hold any water. Look at Ace, most people consider him a great GHR player, he plays on a 500mhz tiBook with half the min requirement for videoram. Yet, he does better than the bastards with dual 1.42ghz G4s.

Winners adapt, losers find excuses...

 Well, aparently there has been a huge difference in how good Ejo is since he moved to PC. He was a good mac player, but most all good players could beat him.

If Ejo has gotten way better, I may find that a bit odd. However, I would never jump to the conclusion that he cheats.

When Xoclipse had his mac, I beat him 7-5 in a 1v1.

When he got his PC, and installed more RAM in it, he beat me 5-4-1.

( Note: In both cases, he had a 5-1 lead, so in the 7-5 one, he was but one tie away from getting the same score as the second one ).

As you can see, not a big difference.

When Ejo had his Mac, and played on GameRanger, I probably could've beaten him about 6-4. Now that he has his PC, I would expect it to be more along the lines of 10-9.

You adjust to playing on a bad computer, and when you get a good one, there will be a point where you play extremely well, after you've had it for a while, you'll even out a bit, and go back towards normal. - Just like Mainman.

(Jeb became the best guy with excuses, after we 0wn3d him 6-1, when he was in (uNt clan ;D )

Ahhh, Hypocrite at work. Coming from the mouth of the person who found a new excuse on a daily, on why he didn't want to lose a CB to us again.  If anything Jeb, after we spanked you 6-1, you should've grew an apetite for revenge.  Oh wait, you have an anti-AK clan.  Your apetite grew quite large, and still at work.  Almost forgot ;D

Being that the difference between the PC's and Macs are so significant, to keep it fair, the 2 should not be battling(and won't be battling in any of our hosted games).  It's the leading edge PC's carry(in video games :o ), but who cares on such unstable systems for other tasks. ;D

I am sorry guys.  I did not make this site to have a bitch session on who is the better player in RS.  All I was saying was that it was unfair to let PC players play CB's without the complete consent of the all the players within the cb.  Mauti remedied the rule and I do appreciate it.  Although I must agree with c| Dr. No in that this forum bitching when someone is trying to make a valid point is kinda wrong guys.  All I was asking for was some honest opinions about the matter and it turned out to be this flame war.  Plz stop guys.  I know for a fact that Ejo, Hazard, Typhy, Xoclipse, and Rapid are all excellent players.  They were all in very successful clans back in the day and many of them still are.  But thank u to all those people mentioned above and others that have sent in their honest opinions of the matter =)

+MOD+Saberian

Well, in light of the new cheats that were presented to me I must say that this is why I do not allow PC's into any Ghost recon game we are playing CB wize.  These cheats and their programs are the exact reason why I hate PC's.  I hope that you PC users can understand what I am talking about.  Well, for Ghost recon at least