*DAMN R6 Forum

just curious about the political statistics of GR...

what party or parties are you most inclined to support or affiliate yourself with, if any?

republican, democrat, libertarian, green, independent... etc  ;D

my parents would like to be green but they know they have no chance in hell, so theyre republican. i do not wish to take part in governmental elections due to an overwhelming amount of stupidity that could be elected as president (ex. george bush).

I decline to comment because people shouldn't affiliate themselves with any particular party. Candidates and issues should be considered individually. I believe that the founding fathers themselves were concerned that the growth of political parties would eventually destroy our democracy. I see this as being more and more the case. I mean really, what's the difference between dems and repubs anyway? They're all politicians, they're all greedy and self interested, and none of them do anything for the public good unless they think it will get them re-elected.

I'm too young to know what the hell all that shit is.

I am a left leaning Green/Democrat, but as Alaric said it depends on the candidate and cirucumstances surrounding the election. For example, here in Iowa we are having a gubernatorial election this year among other things. The Green Party needs to get 2 % of the vote in the Gubernatorial race to keep their "official party status" in Iowa. I have been working hard to support Jay Robinson, the Green candidate for the governor position, creating fliers for him in photoshop and campaigning for him around campus. However, when I went to vote yesterday I was torn by internal conflict, as the governor's race is very close between the incumbent Democrat and a very conservative Republican challenger. The incumbent Democrat has an excellent record on education, an important issue for me because almost everyone in my family is a teacher. With the polls being so close, I knew I couldn't risk letting the Republican win, especially since both of Iowa's legislatures have a Republican majority. So in spite of all my external posturing for the Greens, I voted for the Democratic candidate. It was a win-lose situation for me either way, and I'm still not sure I made the right choice, since my values align almost perfectly with the Green candidate. However, as Machiavelli proved the ends justify the means? so good luck Iowa Green Party I guess.

So anyway, to answer your question I am Green? I also support non-US parties like the Democratic Socialists in Germany and smaller parties in the US like the New Party. I have what many may consider a radical agenda? (it isn't all that radical to me though :))

I apologize in advance for the oversharing of information.

OH BTW COOK- you should make this a poll, that way we can see the actual numbers? some people have political opinions but don't actually like to post, too.

while i've never supported classifying oneself as being one thing or another as mandatory, i do think that MOST of the individuals comprising our population have needs that one party or another attempts to cater to. Anarchists being the absolute exception :) Also, I agree that the parties are nothing but politicians and are congruously greedy however i think that they each keep up the fascade of truly wanting to address some issues and thats what creates the affiliations. In my case, a whole mix of parties caters to the blend of values i hold as i have mixed feelings about issues, and this is the reason i included the word "inclined" in the question to imply that while you may not support a party 100%, you have a proclivity to agree on the prima facie issues of that party. I think i'm a healthy blend of libertarian, republican, and democrat, in the order of prominence. I agree with different parties on certain issues, odd as it seems.

and yeha, i should have made this a poll. it seems as if it is too late now, though.

the only party worth being a part of is the "drunk chick/keg" party

i would be inclined to vote for the frat party! or maybe the rave party  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_lol.gif)     WORD

I heard a story recently that has spread around campus that some guy got ass raped at a frat party. Literally. He was just drinkin and having a good time when some guys pulled him into the back and ass raped him.

Sort of funny but disturbing at the same time.

As for political parties. Cookie's right about how each party caters to its followers needs. But there are major differences between each. It boils down to before the U.S. was formed. Half of the country wanted less government (Republican), while the other half wanted the government in their lives (Democrat). Then came all the seperate parties.

Personally, I lean more towards Republican.

Every party has thier downsides (corruption, etc.), so i agree with Alaric fully.

BAH TO POLITICIANS

Not true Py, in addition to generally agreeing with their platform, the main reason I consider myself a green party supporter is because unlike other parties, they do not take donations from corporations or any other form that would make them work for the interests of a company rather than the populus.

On the other hand I'm not registered to vote yet, mainly because Colorado, and Colorado Springs in particular are not exceptionally interesting places where the green party will win (Boulder aside).  I'll register before the 2004 election though...but I'm hoping to be employed in a different country and at some point change my citizenship, assuming things work out.

Either way, I hope the US gets over its current frame of mind and adopts a socialistic democracy in the style of the Scandinavian countries, or at least a moderate one like Germany or Canada.  The US would be catorgorized as a rudimentary social system, the worst defined category of social set-ups.

I think having nationalized health care and free education through college, not to mention better job laws (less hours, more vacation, more job security) will raise the quality of life.  Will we be as rich a country...no, but we will be healthier and happier.

shame on you bondo,
aren't you 19 and still haven't registered to vote? Are you scared of the selective service or something?
I like voting, and i like it when pat gets his absentee ballot in arizona cause he just writes my name in (since he doesn't follow politics in washington).
I really don't think i have a political party of my own,
do you know any that are...
Pro athiest (hard core separation of church and state)
Pro abortion
anti RIAA
and pro teen drinking (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)
I guess washington is a pretty libral state, we have a shitload of women in government (i'm not sure if thats a good thing though), but anyways what party would acept my beliefs?

Scared of the selective service?  Not really as I'm signed up for it, I just haven't bothered with the registering to vote...I'll do it when I renew my driver's license in Jan 2004, and then I'll go drink my sorrows away at the thought of the US government .(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)

Anyway, if there is another draft, I wouldn't go to fight, I have to many issues that they would spot (feet, eyes, etc.)...although my spectacular FPS skills may make them ignore that  ;D

I'm generally a Republican, although I have some Libertarian leanings.

Bondo, how can you really talk politics if you aren't even registered to vote. Anyone who is over 18 and doesn't vote should shut up and live with the government that is chosen for them.

That is something that might be true if every vote counted in our elections, but they don't, my vote doesn't mean shit and I can't influence anything with it.  Our goverment was set so that there couldn't be radical change...unfortunately it has pretty much prevented change at all.

The only way to make any changes is not through voting, it is through getting involved in other groups, non-profits, lobbying for causes and such.  But no, I guess I have to go vote for the losing candidate to be able to talk about it.

Bondo, voting is a responsibilty. Yes, a responsibility, not a right. That's great to get involved like tasty did, but cast your damn vote too. People died for that right. You just have to punch a few holes.

my family is almost always democratic, except that in the most recent presidential election, we had a whiny guy who was aready vice president, and another guy that cant say "nuclear" that ends up looking like a n00b with big ears saying nucular,
 so we kinda went for Nader
 :o interesting note: the presidential election dispute was decided by the florida votes, and Jeb Bush (George W's BROTHER) is the governor of Florida.  hmmmm  any connection there?

Republican... Doesn's mean I don't agree with certain Democratic viewpoints though! (But Republican pwns you!)

Ben

bondo,
you register for the selective service when you register to vote, i don't know how you managed to avoid registering to vote, while in the selective service (i got a shitload of voter registration mail when i turned 18). Also, its against the law to not register.
After seeing bondo play MOH, i wouldn't want him defending our country (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif)

that brings me to another issue,
Women always complain about being treated equal. If they want equality, they should be going to war when there is a draft along with the men. EVEN THE FAT ONES

Jeb, the only time I've ever been asked to register to vote was when I got my license at 18 at which point I was in a hurry due to the DMV being slow as usual and having to get back to class (I was doing it during lunch).  I could register by calling someone or other and doing something, but I figure it will be easiest to go do it at the DMV when I get my next license.

Also, I think I remember my bullets giving you headaches on a consistent basis, and me having a better score than you in the game we played  :-[

Im a green party guy republicans are for the higher income people democrats are douchebags


and green party is for the low income not rich bitches

vote green party

Because I am a dual citizen I am also affiliated with two parties in two nations. In Russia I side with the current President on many issues and I am largy a reformist. Reformist party is the party that Putin belongs to.
In the United States I identify with the Democratic party more. I cringe at saying Democratic party because I view them as corrup oligarchs just as I do Republicans. I havent seen a good democratic canidate in since Clinton (I liked Clinton alot). I am registered to vote In both Russia and America. I have already voted for a govornor in St.Petersburg, Russia , and I am going to vote for Ron Kirk in Texas for senator. The Gubenetorials in Texas suck. It is a choice between Prick Perry and Tony Suckchez. They are both corrupt sleeze bags in my opinion.

Heh, the governor race here isn't too pretty either. On one hand you have Grey Davis who does great things for education but that's about it. He is a complete and utter moron when it comes to the economy and problem solving. On the other hand there is Simon who would be very good for the economy, but I don't think he will focus on education enough. Then again, with Davis' vaunted war chest and Simon's relative lack of funds, the fight is incredibly unfair to start with.

I just love people that rag on our government, but don't take their own actions and responsiblities in it.  Since less then half the population actually vote in most elections, just think what could happen if you got all the people that are "greenests" or whatever together, and all went to vote instead of feeling sorry for yourselves and saying that nothing can change.  Gee, you could actually win.  

I'll ask again, if those countries are so much happier, then why is the suicide rate so much higher in most of them?  YOU may be happier over there Bondo, but why make that kind of general statement for the rest of your country?  If I would be happier over there, I'd be over there.  If I would be as happy in Canada as in the US, I would have stayed in Canada.  People come to America every year.  Even people from those countries.  Why?

For myself, I'm a complete indy.  I vote only on the issues.  I've voted for Reformests, Greenests, Libertarians, Democrats and Republicans.  Most of my votes in the past few years have been for Reformests and Libertarians.

But my voting won't get the other half of the country to vote.  And even if I was able to vote someone I liked into office, it probably wouldn't do any good because the stupid separation of powers prevent any real changes to happen.

As for my saying the quality of life is better, I choose not to doubt the UN and WHO who have released a variety of statistics showing that life in the US isn't as good.  Of course you wouldn't know what the life of the AVERAGE American is, you aren't one of them, neither am I.  Maybe YOUR life is better than it would be in Canada or Europe, but the life of the average american isn't comparitively.

Bondo, you said happier and healthier (read your own quote).  Which is what I am calling BULLSHIT on.  If they are happy, why do they off themselves so much (more suicides in some of them per capita then the USA had homicides).  And if they are healthier, why do they come here for medical treatment so often?

Socalized medacine has it's issues.  I'm not all for it or all against it.  It's nice that everyone gets treatment, equal treatment.  But it's also nice that we have all the good equiptment, in almost every hospital.  We have medical breakthroughs and technology here, because of the "for profit" status that doesn't happen nearly as much in socalized situations.  Also, and no offense intended, but it is true, when has Canadian or European dentestry come close to American?  They need to work out those issues before I support it.

And Bondo, if you read my post, I said if all the greeners did.  Also, there were so many elections around the country last year that every vote mattered (automatic recounts, and not just for President).  

As for "stupid seperation of powers".  STUPID?  (I can't go on, I will just have to insult him).  OK, I really, really, really have to know.  What are you doing in the USA Bondo?  You are 19 and seem to think that this is one of the worst places on earth.  Why are you still here?  What's stopping you??  19 is the perfect age to make that kind of move (anywhere from 18-20 is).  Education VISA's are the ticket.  What are you waiting for???

That is the exact attitude that almost everyone who doesn't vote takes. "My vote won't do anything" or "It's just one vote". I don't have any figures off the top of my head, but unless Florida is far different from the norm, I bet they weren't even close to a 50% turnout in the 2000 election. Don't you think everyone down there who didn't vote was kicking themselves when they realized that every vote counts?

The fact remains that unless you at least try to make yourself heard in our system of government (read: vote), you have no right whatsoever to comment or criticize the powers that be.

i agree with bucc, i vote on this issues. even though i cant vote yet  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/soon.gif) and as for clinton, i hate that bastard. I view him as the reason that this Iraq crap got out of hand, considering the way he let saddamn go unchecked for so many years. he basically ignored his post-gulf war duties in the middle east and now i truly feel for bush having to pick up the slack. I also hate him for playing the public for fools and this post is to be continued...

Well, I shouldn't really have to register to vote, it is a flaw in the system...I should be able to go into the voting place and vote with nothing more than my driver's license.  They are actually working on things of this sort to try and help turnout.  So if I was going to whine about my constitutional rights, I'd be complaining that they won't let me vote if I went in to do so on election day.

And Ace, last time I checked, it is my constitutional right to comment and critisize on the goverment as well.

Bucc, I'm not opposed to having private practices in addition to the nationalized health.  If the people who have the money to go to a private practice want to do so, so be it, but we should at least let everyone have a basic level of health care.  Oh, and that thing about British people having horrible teeth is a myth aided by Austin Powers, it isn't the truth.  I do happen to know a number of people who are British btw.

Also, suicide has more causes than being unhappy.  It isn't a proof that they are less happy.

And it wouldn't get you very far at all.  Those laws are there to prevent election fraud.  We've learned lessons from past elections, and that's why you have to register, why you can only register (and vote in) one party primary, and why you have to register so many days before an election.  All were holes that were plugged to stop election fraud.


That's what we have now.  The poor all have medicare (and various forms of wellfare), so they all have a "basic" level of healther care.  If you want to raise that level, say that.  If it's socalized, you can't really have private, can you?  They are exclusive.  And if it's socalized, there's that problem with medical research funding.


I spent 6 months traveling around Europe.  I didn't say that they had teeth like Austin Powers.  But they still use mercury filled fillings, silver fillings, and stainless steel fillings over there (I had a ceramic filling 20 years ago here).  They also don't use floride in most of the water, so they tend to have worse teeth overall (the floride in the city water here is a big deal it seems).  Since I saw a dentist while I was in England, and his office looked like one of ours from 30 years ago, I'll maintain my judgement that the USA's dentestry is still better until I see something that says otherwise.


Isn't that what it really boils down to?  You were depressed (on the far end of the scale from happy).  And, the point still stands.  You can't tell us we'd be happier or healthier.  You like it better, that's your opinion.  I don't think that most of America would be happier or healthier over there.  How many people flock to northwest europe compared to America every year Bondo?  Why?

I agree completely with everyone dissing on Bondo here. When he said that the US system isn't set up for instilling radical change, that isn't true. It's set up for whatever the people vote for??and there is never, ever going to be radical change if you don't vote. I get very frustrated with people that don't vote, especially in our age category Bondo? its no wonder you are represented by a plutocratic government. If I could only support one thing, and never argue for any other thing, I would choose to support getting out the vote. If everyone voted, democracy would work (it doesn't now) and the rest would come later.

continuing...
I think clinton was ONE of the worst people ever to be elected president. while i acknowledge he was a good speaker and wasn't always a complete waste he is the embodiment of all that is wrong with politics. Lying, cheating, stealing, pretending, fabricating.. the list could go on. So many people, especially the media, have made him out to be some awesome president but i maintain that once you look at the facts and form a conclusion from them he isn't all he's cracked up to be. I hate his wife even more, on a side note.
my thoughts on bush:
im really tired of all these angsty militant teens ranting about how much bush sucks and how he's an awful president. when i ask them why they think so, out of curiosity, the only answer i have EVER gotten is 1) he's stupid 2) he looks like a monkey 3) he doesnt speak "good" 4) he's a war monger. When I ask them to explain their point they can go no further. Why is this? the media, pop culture, so many other things.. have been brainwashing youth and even adults. While i don't always back bush i think it's frustrating how the youth of today seem to have become such sheep. I think society needs to start forming their own opinions and taking facts into account, interpreting them as they will. The anti-bush sentiment is a perfect example of how single minded and conformist our society can be. I myself believe that there IS something wrong with the way our goverment works but i don't blame it all on the president, i try to see the greater picture.


and bondo, there are so many things i wish to say but for fear of destroying our lovely friendship, i digress  ;D

I would like to echo bucc and ace's statements about how important it is to vote. Voting is what this country is all about, millions of Americans have died fighting for that sacred right and you, bondo, have the callousness to say their deaths don't matter? To me, voting is a way of saying "Thanks" to all those who have sacraficed over the years to ensure my right to vote. Anyone who is 18 and doesn't vote in this country deserves to have the label "sheep" tattoed on their forehead because that's all they are, someone who follows without even trying to make a difference.

As for the Clinton thing, I don't presume to judge how good a job he did. I don't know the first thing about running a country, I also don't have 1% of the information that US presidents have to weigh to make decisions. I only have horribly biased media sources from which to judge decisions of the president. As a person, he was kinda sleezy, but then again, so are most American males (ahem jeb).

Note: ALWAYS VOTE! It makes a difference... oh such a difference...

Ben

I just wish their was a new revolutionary leader. I think Clinton did good for the country, and he was a very good president in a domestic sense. I wish a new FDR or LBJ wold come around. I dont think many Republicans are happy either. Many of the Republicans I hear wish for someone like Nixon or Eisenhower. Nixon was corrupt but he did wonders for forign policy in the US. many people would like a return to Reaganism ( I would absolutley hate that because Regan emdies the definition of evil to me) Clinton and the two Bushs represent a stale mediocrity in the quality of America's leadership.

I agree totally with you there, cossack. We haven't had a good president in this country in 50 years. I'm partial to teddy and FDR myself. They did what they had to do for the country, not for themselves.

Actually, Ford was a good president, for the short time he was there.  He didn't stand a chance for re-election after Nixon though.

Carter was also a very good president.  The Iran hostage crisis hurt him, and hurt him bad.  But in every other way, he did many, many good things.  He just won the Nobel Prize for some of those things.

Cookie, I could give you a list about the things I hate about Bush, but it can just start with oil drilling and go to cow towing to big business.  We can start that up in another thread if you like.  

BTW, still waiting to hear why Bondo stays in America.  I really want to know.

i never said people didnt have legit. reasons for disliking him.. hell, i have my own. im talking about the most generic and overused responses. and yes, i dislike him for proposing ANWR but as for him kowtowing to big buisness, my response is what candidate hasn't in recent years? and even then.. as far as i know Bush is a moderately honest man even if he does favor corporations from time to time. I've never seen any impartial accredited evidence that conclusively states that Bush caters to big buisness; and i assure you, if it existed, it's likely i would have come across it. I spend many weekends engaged in policy debate and i've argued on both sides of the spectrum but never once have i seen any considerable evidence stating GWB is absolutely partial to big buisness. However, i respect your belief as i did before allude to my belief that truth is relative and one must define things for themself. This is just my two cents.

LOL, sorry Cookie.  I jumped too hard on that one.  Yes, I can completely agree with you on the poeple around here that have no basis for their opinions, other then that sort of complete nonsense.


Just to end this one up.  In recent years, Carter would come the closest.  But even then, he wasn't a saint.  More recent then that, it would be an insult to even consider a name.

As for your research, does that go back to when he was Governer GWB, or just in his current office?  Because the one thing he proved to me when he was still just in charge of Texas (which is funny, because the Governer of Texas has the fewest powers of all the governers from what I've read) he managed to fuck up the ecology in the name of the oil biz down there in some of the few things he could effect.  In his current office, no, except for what he's doing for oil, I haven't seen much.  But everything about him has been focused on 9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq, that nobody is talking about the economy or anything else.  So it's hard to judge.  I know one thing for sure.  While he has popular support for his response and actions to 9/11, his domestic policy hasn't really done anything.  Which, is pretty typical of Republicans (for those that are reading this saying WTF, Republicans are known for good forign relations and lousey domestic, while Democrats are know for good domestic policies and shitty internationally.  It's not a rule, but it is a trend.)

my research is only over what is relevant, which i consider to be now. His previous style of administration means nothing if he isn't currently practicing it, as I am talking about his actions as president. as for focusing on afghanistan.. while there is some merit to this i think that considering how vicious the media in general is torwards him, if he was fucking up economically everyone from nowherestown USA to DC would know about it. I haven't really looked into it much, but from what i've seen there haven't been any economic downturns that he could control. And I do agree with you on the whole policy pattern about foreign and domestic affairs. With Bush, im still waiting. He hasn't really had time to address/fuck up domestic affairs yet, and i dont know what the outcome of that "economic summit" he held was.

Wow, perception is everything.  I always think that the media is too soft on him because of 9/11.  They are starting to get more up his ass though.  

oh the media has always hated him but i think that they did lay off for a bit considering they probably thought it too inappropriate a time to make political attacks  ;D

It isn't that I'm not trying to make a difference, I'm just not choosing voting as my means of making a difference.

So, the point that it is your duty to vote doesn't mean anything.  We have a responsibility to democracy, we have to take part in it for it to work correctly.

And I'm still waiting to hear why you stay in America Bondo.  I am really very interested in it.

Because it would be prohibitively expensive to study abroad.  I have just enough money in my college fund to graduate with my BS.  And that is assuming my current rate which is to say, no room and board, only transportation, tuition, and books.

Once I have my degree and am looking for work, I can try to find something out of the country and then will have the money to be leaving.

I'm not sure of the validity of this, but at the moment I have neither the time nor the desire to check it out. Even if it is true, you are saying that you are sacrificing your morals because of money, which is quite ironic considering the high moral ground upon which you place yourself.

As for not voting and thinking that you are making a positive difference that way, from the bottom of my heart, leave America. Immediately. Don't ever come back. My grandfather was in North Africa and Japan during and after WWII. He and millions others risked their lives and many lost them for one reason: to protect the freedoms we hold so dear. One of those fundamental freedoms we enjoy is the freedom of choice, the right to vote. By saying that you don't vote as a way of making a difference is spitting on the blood, sweat, and tears of generations of Americans from the founding fathers and revolutionaries to our boys over in Afghanistan making sure 9/11 won't happen again. You disgust me Bondo.

Ace, I could barely say that better myself.  I'd only add that it is as much a DUTY to vote as it is a RIGHT.

I'd also add that I'd bet good money that Bondo isn't paying his own way through school.  That his college fund is from Parents, etc.  The reason I say this is because if you were paying your own way, you'd know that you can make it anywhere.  Besides, talking about how intelligent you are, you don't have academic grants?

Ace, I think you have it pegged.  Selling out is the common term.

Ok, enough of that.  

Here's a good link, but dated on third parties LINK (http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2000/04/front.110400.election.jhtml)

Here is a link to show Bondo that many of those Southern States are very Democrat now a days (from a different thread, but it belongs here) LINK (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legman/elect/controlpost01.htm)

And here is the big daddy.  If you visit no other link, check this one out.  It's small.  This is the link for anyone that thinks one vote doesn't count.  LINK (http://www.usfca.edu/fac-staff/hancock/pol204/history.htm)

hey,
my parents are paying my way thru school, but i'm not sad  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)
i thought bondo went to a community college (which is like 600$ a quarter).
One vote does count,
cause if bigpat didn't write my name in on the absentee ballot i wouldn't be a contender for the senate (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/banana.gif)

Don't take that the wrong way Jeb.  The way Bondo acts just doesn't appear to be the way Bondo lives was the point that Ace and I were both making.

There's nothing wrong with sponging off the parents if they are willing to pay.  But when you talk about how bad it is here, that's kind of selling out your morals, just for the sake of not paying your own way.  

I decided to skip wading through the crap and instead jump right in.

(If that isn't a damn good metaphor, I don't know what is.)

Incidentally, I find one huge irony in partisan politics.  It appears that most Americans, whether they are registered with a particular party or not, do not fully identify with that party.  Most people I know espouse the general theory put forth by Alaric and Buccaneer (and maybe some of you others in that cesspool that was page 2).  That is, they believe in issues and people, not a group.  

So wouldn't it be nice if somehow all these many free-thinking people could come together in some way?  If together we could overthrow the two-party system?  But see, that would be creating a political party in itself. . .

Doesn't government suck when you don't run it?

Loudnotes, isn't that what the Reformist Party is supposed to be about?

Yep, and they still have a political platform, which essentially negates their purpose.  Unforunately, to be a successful candidate, you still need the support of a party, which necessitates their having at least some grounded ideaology.  But for me at least, that ideaology is little better than that of the Democrats, Republicans, Greens, Libertarians, or anyone else.

It always bothered me the way Ralph Nader insisted that there was no difference between Bush and Gore, because I think the differences are marked.  What I think he should have made more clear was that the differences hardly matter, because its still a search for the lesser of two evils.  Of course, I think Nader himself made a third evil.

I guess it's hard to make a "perfect" candidate, as a mass audience will never agree entirely on every issue.  Too bad.

I think the inherent problem with partisan politics (our two party version at least) is that you need to create a party to overthrow it. Bucc states that the Reformist Party's goals are to encourage free-thinking, yet to get elected they must have a platform of some sort to run on, thus creating a new party in power that needs to be overthrown...

Man, and I thought figuring out what the G in GNU stood for was a recursive nightmare...

Since when did I say it was immoral to live in the US?  As for me having acedemic grants...those have to do with grades, intelligence doesn't.  I had a 3.7 GPA and was in the top 20% of one of the most competitive high schools in the nation.  I'm sure I could have gotten scholarships of some sort, but I didn't apply for them.  As for my "community college" if it is a community college then so is UCLA and USC and CU Boulder and U of M.  The only reason it is cheap is because it is in state, and in city (thus I live at home rather than in dorms/apartment).

As for sayinging I'm horrible because I don't vote (Ace) and thus don't pay respect to those who fight for our country, maybe you should consider that my grandfather was in the military during WWII.  I can't show gratitude to them for the freedom of speech?  I have to show gratitude by taking advantage of each and every one of my rights?  I've never gone to court so I've never utilized my right to council, I guess I'm being unpatriotic.

Oh, and I voted in every Presidential election I've been elgible for and plan to continue.

Bondo, we live in a representative democracy, the basis of which is formed by people voting for their respective representatives to Congress, Senate, etc. If you don't vote but keep your mouth shut and play the hand you are dealt so to speak, that's one thing. But to not vote and then have the audacity to criticize our government disrespects the memories of people who fought to guarantee us both the right to vote and the freedom of speech. As Bucc stated, voting isn't just a right, it's your civic duty.

You never said it was immoral to live in the US (as far as I can remember), but you have on many occasions ranted on about how Europe in particular is so superior to the US in terms of "quality of life" or whatever the UN told you. If you really believed this and it wasn't just a hollow statement, you would move to Europe. It does get annoying after a while when you continue to bash our country yet still want to enjoy the allegedly inferior quality of life.

yah bondo u seem to hate this country and its political views why dont u move to africa and have some fun with ebola , come on bondo its good enough

after all we do live in the best country for freedom in the whole world.....

just because u think something is wrong dosnt mean the system is currept or is wrong

year 200 presidental election , bondo who did you want to win bush or gore?

Hate to break it to you Bondo, but a 3.7 wouldn't have gotten you into any of those schools except for CU Boulder and the low end of USC. I don't know about other schools, but people with very high GPA's (4.3+) and high SAT's (1400+) got rejected from UCLA...im not sure that you can put UCCS in the same category, no offense.

Also, Ace referred to "Academic Grants" in which case more often than not, you don't apply for it, but you are given it. Scholarships on the other hand you need to apply for.

Voting is a duty in this nation. I just hope that the elections in the year 2000 woke people up because the leader of the free world was chosen by a mere 200 or so votes. If you don't vote whenever and wherever you can, you are doing an injustice to this great country in which you live in.

 SK, Bondo and I both supported the one who got the majority of the votes. Please - If you really have nothing to add to the thread, don't post here. And if you can't take the time to edit your posts and make them at least make sence, then you should't post. You obviously enjoy your time on the forums, take your time to make your posts look good. On a webboard, there is no reason that you can't take the time to spell out words, it would be really helpful to the rest of us. I like you, I enjoy playing RS with you, I am just asking you to:

1.) Only post when you actually have somthing to add.

And 2.) To try and at least have your posts make sence.

Ok... What gives you guys the right to judge others. Are all of you saying it never once occured to you you might be a little to busy for an election or might not get one done in time? Are you trying to say you guys dont get along with any one who has skipped a single voting ballet?! Well, frankly, there are as many people who don't vote in this country as there are those that do. Maybe.... Maybe, you guys took it a bit too far!

Ben

Who said you did?  But since you have made it clear that you are planning on becoming expatriotreated, and you seem only to be waiting for your meal ticket to run out, we are saying that you have already sold out your convictions.  If you did go to one of the best schools in the nation with a 3.7 GPA, we would assume that you also tested well.  You should be able to get a full ride to many schools, many schools out of the country.  Why do you instead chose to live in your parents basement in this country that you seem to hate so much?

Now, there's a sure sign of intelligence.  Sure you could have gotten them, but didn't apply.  Actually, it's just a sign of poor judgement.  It doesn't surprise me.  If you could get these, why was it "prohibitively expensive"?  Was filling out an application too expensive?  How?

But only the top 20% with a 3.7.  Either your school had one hell of an easy grading system for 20% to have an A- average, or they weren't on the 4.0 scale.  In the high school I attended, 70% was the lowest passing grade, 93% was a B (or 3.0).  So, if you went to a public school, I fear that they did an injustice.  BTW, where did you see that you went to one of the "most competitive high schools in the nation"?  I mean, I went to a private school, where we had numbers like 98% graduation rate and 92% going on to college with around 70% getting into their college of first choice.  They used to publish the rate for graduating from college too, but I can't remember that.  But I have no way of knowing how we would stack up nationally.  Where do they rate these things?


Actually, I think the term you were looking for was "commuter college", not community.  And it wouldn't apply to UofM or WMU (I can't speak for USC, UCLA or CU).  For UofM and WMU, freshmen are required to live on campus, even if their parents live in the area.  The only exception was "non-traditional students" aka Night School only.  Also, the question Deadeye asked about it was what programs is it ranked as having the best in the nation.  WMU has two programs considered the best in the nation.  It has many other accreditations to go with it too, a great teaching school, chemistry, business (but everyone has that).  They are free to look up Bondo.  We live in the information age.


So the law makers seem to mean nothing to you.  You plan on voting in the election that probably has the least effect on you personally.  States pass more laws then Federal.  Your local government is even more important.  Ofcourse you know all this.  It's kinda revolting that you take your civic duty so lightly.  


Now, to more important things.

Loudnotes and Ace,

One thing about the Reformist Party, a few people, like the most successful Reformist so far, only joined the part for the war chest and more debate time that it afforded him.  He never really followed anyone's platform but his own.  

Ben, mail-in ballots. There is no excuse for no fufilling your obligation to your country by not voting. My Grandfather was a B-17 pilot risking his life in helping to bomb Nazi Germany. He put country before self in order to fight for the right for our freedom and I think we owe a debt of gratitude to our soldiers past and present for allowing us to live the lifestyles we choose, say anything we want, and to ELECT whomever we want to lead us into the future.

If voting is too hard for you, move to Communist China, Communist North Korea, or even Iraq. I'm sure they don't care if you vote or not, because it doesn't matter in those places.

Ace was claiming that my staying here made me morally unsound (or something to that matter).

As for testing well, 1350 on the PSAT and 29 on the ACT is testing well...better than our President did.

As for being a 3.7 just inside the top 20%...GPAs don't go on a bell curve...we just happen to have a ton of good students, especially in my graduating class.  We had one student go to Stanford and one to Dartmoth.  Most of our students go to CU, CSU, or a number of other schools.  As for where this is rated...in a national magazine two years ago it was listed as one of the top 100 high schools in the nation...oh, and 99% graduation rate is pretty good for a public school isn't it?

Yes, and I agree.  You are selling out your moral high ground for having your school paid for.  Making it easy on yourself instead of following your morals.  It's not immoral to live in the USA.  It's selling out for you to do it just so you can have your school paid for.  After all, you want to leave and become expatrioted.


And beating our President is a benchmark?  

If those are really your test scores and your grades (I'll have to take your word) then you are full of shit on academic grants (you are in no way telling the whole story).  Since I did have some academic grants, and didn't have to apply for them (they included them with my admissions, I just had to sign a form that they filled out), and yes, my parents made too much money for me to get anything out of many of the usual grants, these were purely academic in nature.  Oh, except for one which was for being a non-smoker.  

So, your point about it being cost prohibitive to go to schools out of the country seems to be, lacking to say that least.  If you want to leave the contry and go to Europe to live, and the only thing stopping you was filling out an application, you are either butt ass stupid, or not telling us the full story.  At least if you said you were afraid to leave your parents basement, that would be something.  But to say you have all the scores for an academic ride, and chose not to take it, nobody that smart is that stupid.  Not without some major other reasons.


Ah, we didn't go on a bell curve either.  But, we also had a very hard grading system.  And if everyone got an A on an exam, the teachers figured they weren't making them hard enough.  As for studenst going to Ivy league, we had more then two.  But that's just a pissing contest, and not important.


What national magazine?  I want to see where they stand around here.

And a 99% graduation rate says that they are padding their stats in a public school.  Kids died in my high school.  So there was no way for them to graduate.  We test kids to get into the school I went to.  Don't pass, don't get in.  Some still flunk out and have to go back to public.  

If it's at 99%, then it goes with the grading system.  That school just had to be too easy.  With a national average of 17 on the ACT, I don't care what neighborhood you live in, if it's public, not charter, you have to take all the students.  And there are just too many dumb kids to all graduate.  Private schools have higher numbers because they just don't let in those students in the first place, and parents usually care more about the kid doing homework (usually, not always) when they are shelling out $1500 a year for the kid to go there.

What was the name of this super school Bondo?  I want to look it up.  It has to be in all the Education journals.

I think we're restating the intelligence debate now. . .

Thanks for agreeing Ace, and Bucc I see your point.  My problem is that I don't like any of the Reformist candidates, so while their anti-partisan ideal is nice, they don't really present a viable alternative.  Personally I'd like to see a system like that in Europe, with dozens of parties, only without the coalitions and constant reorganization.

The sad truth of it is that you need the money to play the game.  And the party's have the money.  

I don't particularly like anyone in the Reformist Party either right now.  But I like that they want to reform the two party system.  And that they'll add money to some indies that join up, without forcing any platform down their throats.

Bucc, if you wish to look it up it is Cheyenne Mountain High School in Colorado Springs.

Oh and another point of interest, were were listed as the second snobbiest school in the country on The Tonight Show, that was probably helped by the local paper as the humor colomnist would always write about us having valet parking and other such nonsense.

As for being scared to leave my parents' basement...that isn't directly true but isn't completely false either...I would say that at this point my mental state would not be conducive to living on my own.  I'm pretty sure the lack of any appetite, insomnia, and a very rapid mind are a good recipe to not be capable of all that.  I have been held back by these problems...if I was "normal" in that regard I probably would have had above a 4.0 GPA (by means of AP and Honors classes) and been at least in the top 10% of my class.  This is why I make a point of saying intelligence can't be marked by grades.

Who said intelligence is marked by grades?  Intelligence is the ability to learn and apply knowledge.  Sometimes it can be measured by grades, sometimes it can't.  Too many variables.

Grades measure many things though.

And if you are too mentally unstable to live on your own right now, that explains much about you.  

But you have still sold out your moral high ground for the comfort of your parents house.

Everyone I know has lack of sleep btw.  i don't think anyone sleeps more then 5 hours a night except for Danielle, nope, not even her since her baby came.  If you haven't noticed my computer hours from posts here, I usually sleep 3-4 hours a day.  Same way with Deadeye, and Grifter was that way too.  

Really fucking class of you to make fun of other's afflictions Bucc.

Sure, I understand not everyone gets 8 hours...but do you get little sleep because you can't  due to activities or don't need to, or is it because you can't get to sleep even if you want to fall asleep.

Also, do you know many people who haven't been hungry ever for nearly two years and eat about 1000 calories a day just because it would be unhealthy not to.  If I don't eat (take today for example, I ate my one and only meal at 5 pm and didn't eat a great deal) I don't feel hungry, the only sign I get is I sometimes will get dizzy, usually that doesn't happen as I eat proactively to prevent it.

Sorry but you really shouldn't be making light of my problems.  That is like if I had made light of Grifter dying, something I would never do.

I didn't make light of your problems.  Find where I made light of them.  Go ahead, find it.  I said it explains much about you.  How is that fucking making light of it dickhead?  Go cry in your pillow you wee girl if you are that overly sensative.

None of us sleep because we are wound up too tight.  We'd all love to sleep 8 hours.  It doesn't happen.  Even when I sleep, I'm dreaming about things I need to do, solving problems, that sort of shit.  I long for the dreams I had back in puberty (where's Kathy Ireland when I need her??)

As for not eating, who has time for that either?  One meal a day is about all I ever do.  You act like this is unusual or something.  Eating disorders are nothing new.  If it's a problem, get help.

And not showing sympathy is not the same as making light.  I dont' feel sympathy for you Bondo, and I'm not the kind of person to fake it.  That's worse in my book.

None of that changes the fact that you lose that moral high ground by selling out.  Your actions speak louder then your words.

Maybe you both need help. . .
 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/hm.gif)

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/offtopic.gif) i hate you all!

oh oh and good questions, who do you think will win the midterms? What would be the effect of a republican/democrat senate majority on the country.

You made light of it by trivializing it...acting like it is no big deal.  You wouldn't know the half of it.

Cookie, don't hate me  :(  Hate Bucc for being such an utter asshole.

Ok you little pansy, where did I "trivialize" it?

Because your problems aren't a big deal to me?  They aren't.  Boo fucking hoo.  Are my problems a big deal to you?  Are my problems a big deal to anyone here?  Nope.  And I don't share them or use them as an excuse for being a flaming idiot either, jackass.  

Everyone has problems.  I didn't make fun of yours, but I'm not going to throw a pity party for you either.  Life sucks sometimes, get over it.

Cookie, I think there is going to be a swing towards democrat, and more friction between Congress and the Pres.  This administration has been doing much of what the older Bush did (and Clinton to).  Whenever this is a serious question that the administration doesn't like, a new battle springs up into the news.  I think that the law makers and people are starting to see through it (not just the smart ones, but even the majority sheep).  I think that the old smoke and mirrors has been used too often and congress is going to be more agressive with him.

Just my thoughts.

Oh yeah, and boo hoo, hate me.  I was mean to Bondo, so hate me.  boo-fucking-hoo.  Can you get anymore childish Bondo?

I hope the Congress goes democrat. Just to kinda have a balance of power. Republican Administration, Democrat Congress.  Democrat Administartion, Republican Congress. I also wish people would represent their state more than their party.

We need a democratic majority in the senate? I think the direction that this country's government is moving in is very dangerous. The Patriot Act essentially made the US a police state??I for one, do not like the feeling that my every move is being monitored. I don't believe that this is actually true, but if it was true it wouldn't be legal. I just want a return of civil liberties in America and although the Democrats can often be just as treacherous as the Republicans, at least beneath this treachery is a liberal base that they rarely alienate. The country is outrageously conservative right now, and I blame the current administration, who I see as almost completely unconsciable in their foreign and domestic actions. Keep in mind, over 50 percent of the country voted Democrat in the 2000 election, therefore the direction that a Republican congress and administration would take our nation would NOT be representative of the country as a whole. This is where democracy is failing??but that is a seperate subject entirely! So get out the Democratic vote.

Tasty, that seems like a bit of an exageration to me.  Why would you feel that anything you do is being monitored?  You are right, it wouldn't be constitutional.


Tasty, on a side note, why don't you consider the right to bear arms a civil liberty?  I do consider it one, I'm curious why you don't.

Also, I don't see a big difference between the career Republican and the career Democrat.  Both are usually just looking to line thier own pocket, get re-elected, and cover their own ass.  Party politics drives me nuts.  Many Democrats will oppose the Republican President because of the Party.  And Vice Versa.  That is such bullshit to me.  Represent the people you are supposed to represent, not any Party.  Most of them just don't see this anymore.


You bring up a good point here Tasty, but I think you draw the wrong conclusion.  

First, this isn't a failure with democracy.  It is a known flaw in a Republic.  We are governed by a Republic, not a true Democracy.  There were a few reasons that our forefathers chose a Republic, one of the biggest being it would take forever to have all the people vote on everything.  Communication sucked back then.  And it would be too easy to tamper with things along the way.  I say that we have enough technology now, and that the standards are high enough now, that we should move away from a Republic and more towards a true Democracy.  

There are many villages and townships across the country that are.  The next step is for a large city or small state to make the move.

Second, Even the Democrat that was being voted upon was a conservative.  The reason we have a bunch of conservatives in office is because the country as a whole has been getting more conservative.  It isn't a Republican / Democrat thing, it's just the way the attitudes are swinging.  It's easy to give up some freedom when you see buildings blowing up, and militia's with too many guns lurking in the background.  

I agree things are too conservative.  But I don't see any Democrats that are going to help that situation out greately.

America is a political pendulem. In the 60's America took a left turn. In the 80s a right. Reagan was a response to Carter. Clinton a Response to Reagan. Bush Jr a response to  Clinton. America is entering a new right turn just like it did during the 80s and eventually it will go left again.

lol that is a typo? i meant illegal instead of legal 8). Among the things the government can do under the patriot act are searching your house without a warrant or even telling you that they were there, monitoring computer keystrokes for up to 60 days without telling you, and tapping phone lines without a warrant. I don't think that they have used these powers too often. But the fact that they can use them without reporting to a higher authority (this was said to bog down timing and be too bureaucratic) scares me.


I don't consider the right to bear arms to be a civil liberty because in my mind it conflicts with another, more important civil liberty: the right to life. Although the right to bear arms is a civil liberty guaranteed by the constitution, I can't support it for that reason.


Although party politics do play a large role in government today, I think that the reason politicians oppose each other is because they have different idealogies. When a candidate wins in an election, their idealogy is winning - therefore wouldn't they be representing the people by opposing legislation that went against that idealogy? It makes sense to me.



It's true that we are not governed by a true Democracy. We are governed by a representative Democracy. The people we vote on are representing us in a Democracy. I personally think that this system is bullshit and I would be happy to go vote on bills and issues myself every single day. Moving towards a true Democracy would be an excellent step, but most power-hungry politicians would never allow it.


I agree that generally the country has become more conservative, but I think that if everyone had greater access to truthful news and political information as opposed to the political propaganda they see on television than this rampant conservatism would be less of a problem. And it is a problem, because the way that information is censored by the state is ridiculous. I myself don't always have access to this good information - but at least I know its out there. For example, about 3 weeks ago they had a humongous anti-war protest in London with several hundred thousand participants opposed to the US' war on Iraq. It wasn't reported in any major US newspapers, including the NY Times and the Post. I think that is pretty newsworthy when compared to the fucking stupid shit that qualifies for news these days. But because of the interconnectedness of the media to corporations and the government, we don't hear a word of it. When the reasons for our conservatism are analyzed, it becomes obvious how hard it would be for people to ever get truthful information.

I agree that there aren't many Democrats that will help the situation. I really wish there were more progressive alternatives. But for the present (this year's elections) most Democrats are the best that one can support. At least there is some small chance that maybe they will dissent the majority opinion of "compassionate conservatism"(what bullshit) advocated by our government today.

Please Tasty. It is a widely known fact that the media is liberal and hardly conservative. If this wasn't the case, we wouldn't be praising Bill Clinton for being a good President (he was fucking lousy, and he wasn't the cause of the economic boom) and many of you people wouldn't be bashing G.W. Bush for being an "idiot."

Read any major study on the issue and they all point towards media being liberal.

Ah, you agree it's a civil liberty.  The problem you have is that you equate guns with only thier criminal use.  Not their legal use.  If that were the case then wouldn't automobiles, alcohol and all other less important liberties that can take a life when used the wrong way, be unsupportable too?  Just a thought for you.


Tasty, if they voted their idealology once in office, and didn't suport the party, then we wouldn't have all these "Democrat supported bills" or "Republican supported bills" or party opposed bills.  The  party's stick together in congress.  There are a few, like the senator that just passed away, that bucked the system.  But too many of them feel the pressure to follow party politics.  That's where much of their money comes from.

My? I can't believe that someone just seriously posted that. For one thing, my post had absolutely nothing to do with the political "spin" of the information in the news. Frankly, I would appreciate it if news had neither a conservative nor liberal spin. My post had to deal with what information is presented and what information is left out. I think that the media is a tool of the government - regardless of whether the government is conservative or liberal. If you think I haven't heard all the bullshit about the "liberal media" from Rush Limbaugh and others, than you're wrong. If you think I have never read a study on this issue, than you're wrong. This has nothing to do with the explicit opinions expressed by the major newspapers (the subject of the studies you are referring to).

and bucc, I just saw your post and my only issue with it is that your post assumes that there must be significant differences in idealogy within single parties. what other reason would there be to vote differently from your party? i dont believe that there are many democrats that disagree with their democratic counterparts - thus the similarity in voting.

Tasty, guess I'm more cynical then you are.  I find it hard to believe that these Republicans and Democrats have such a polar idealology from each other.  If you look at their platforms, they usually stand for the same thing on many, many issues.  But when it gets down to it, if one party sponcers a bill, the other party almost always will find big faults in it.  This happens when the Democrats propose a conservative bill or when the Republicans propose a liberal bill.  They play the game.

And remember, they are supposed to be representing the people of their districts, not just the ones that voted for them.  If the Democrats tried to lift tarriffs on forign automobiles, any Democrat from the state of Michigan should be fighting their ass off against it.  Because that would be bad for our state.  Not for it because he's a Democrat.  Or for it because he's a liberal.  Against it because that's what the people polled in his (or her) district would want.  Too bad it doesn't really seem to work like that very often.  I can't remember the last time I got a call or was asked to take a poll by my Congressmen (but it was in the 80's)

While I don't see much disagreement within or between the two major parties, I do agree that we are not achieving what Democracy is supposed to be - the majority ruling with the minority still having a say. I don't think that politicians really care what we think as long as we vote for them. And as long as we keep voting for them, that is unlikely to change. It's a really difficult conflict for me - trying to express my discontent with they way the system is working, while still working within the system to try to elect as ethical a government as a I can. It is an inner problem I still have come up with no solution for.

It would be easy if there were a black and white solution, wouldn't it Tasty.

All I do is look for the people that most deserve it.  Party be damned.  If I can't find anyone I like, I cast my vote with one of the not major party's.  So that other people are mroe encouraged to run (and possibly get some of that government money if they get enough votes).

Probably the best thing you could do is find someone worthy (if anyone is) and get behind them.  Push your friends for them, do service from them.  Being in college gives you some freedom of time and schedule to really get involved.  It's a good oppertunity to take advantage of (no matter what you think now, college is a piece of cake compared to the real world, and your day really tends to shrink).

Other then that, not much.  Maybe try to find the causes for electronic voting and other things to get this country closer to a true democracy.  Whatever you do, just don't buy into one party having the answers to all the questions.