*DAMN R6 Forum

I love the mod guys (as you can tell by my review at gr.net). But my question is why did you choose the IDF? I love the IDF and love to read about them, but what made you guys choose them? Proly related or something but oh well and also when is the IDF patch expected?

Hey Van. I think Coco and co. chose the IDF for a GR mod because they were planning on making an IDF mod for some time. They've had lots of mods planned but some never got finished due to time constraints and other projects. But with GR being out doorsey the IDF were a natural choice andsomething they wanted to do for awhile. At least I think that's part of the reason, I could be wrong. Hopefully one of the DTD team will respond and explain for certain why the IDF were chosen.

It was originally Cobra who suggested IDF as a mod due to the wealth of info and images, I loved the idea. I regard the IDF as the most experienced and innovative military force in the world, due to their constant active status and incredible victories against hard odds. Many people don't know that the IDF were the pioneers of aircraft and train/bus takedowns, now standard tactics for any CT team. Overall, I admire them and I'm glad the mod seems to represent them.

everytime i play IDF i think of my poor nice palestinian hairdresser who has to go through the battlefields to visit her family down near jerusalem

My reason for choosing the IDF for a mod was simply...respect. Being a soldier at one time I have a great deal of respect for soldiers in general, but my hats off to one of the best military outfits in the world.

 you where a soldier cobra?? :o :o Still i feel sorry for my haidresser  ;)

I spent 7 years in the US Army...all seven years in the infantry.

Your...hairdresser....? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/hm.gif)

my hairdresser is palestinian and has to go near jerusalem to visit her famely ;). thats where the battlefields are right??

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/so.gif)i think the battlefields are everywhere, man...

They aren't battlefields in the classical sense, they are urban populated Palestinian settlements or portions of palestinian controlled jerusalem.

You have to understand that the IDF is fighting a war against a cowardly enemy that chooses to hide among innocent civillians, thereby making those that surround them potential casualties. This goes for those muslims that are just trying to work and live in the area as well. Additionally, the culture of many of the popular Muslim groups in the area does nothing to discourage the practice of terrorism, often this culture is supportive of terror. It's a self-perpetuating cycle which will never end unitl either the IDF clears out the settlements and camps altogether, or the muslim population takes a stand and opposes terror, instead choosing a diplomatic solution.

The main problem lies in the deeply rooted hatred of all other groups, imbedded in many Muslim children from birth. A culture who's history books state that Israel is evil and must be destroyed. The prevailing tone is that those who do not oppose Israel are traitors, and are usually killed and dragged through the streets by their own people. What it will take is a strong leader, brave enough to oppose the terror groups and lead the people away from the violence... unfortunately, anybody like this will almost surely be assasinated. SO you see that it's more about Palestinians destroying themselves and any chance for freedom, than it is about the IDF destroying them.
It's war, bad things happen in war.

*stunned* wow man you do know how to make people think about things. but your right. every country has its "bad" people.

I rephrase my previous post, I'd say they are SOME of the most experienced CT operators in the word.

As for every country having it's bad people, this is true, but bad ideas are always more dangerous than people. Now when  bad ideas are disguised as a religion, when a peaceful religion is perverted into a reason to hate people, that's the real danger I think.

something that made me think on CNN last nite.

Saddam said "Any attack on Iraq is an attack on the entire arab world."

considering how charismatic he seems to be to a large portion of the arab community, having every sect, terrorist cell and organization that is out for American blood go completely haywire sounds like a really BAD THING... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/shocked2.gif)

i often wonder what the response (American, Israeli and Arab/Muslim) would be if American troops landed in Isreal in an effort to help israel rid itself of these suicide-bombing cowards.

It's not the place of the US to go into other nations to handle domestic issues that do not directly affect us. Either way, the IDF has no lack of personell or expertise... But anything we do over there, I'm pretty sure all of the Arab leaders would have shit-fits. But there's always a theme with these countries, and that is "Big talk, little action". Remember, during the 6 day war a coalition of 6 Arab nations attempted to invade Israel and was completely routed by Israel. Afganistan offered little opposition... that's the beauty of airstrikes, the only thing I can see happening is the US possibly spreading itself too thin. Of course, terror attacks are sure to increase, but it's only a matter of time anyway.

my two uncles fought in that, one was a mortarman and the other a paratrooper. The latter became a hermit thereafter and doesnt speak to us family anymore, i have a feeling the war messed him up some... though noone else believes my theory.

also keep in mind israel won the 6 day war with lots of air strikes as well. their air force is and always has been excellent. oh, theyre also trying to send weapon inspectors into iraq again to comvince people of how much of a threat he is.

I do not like this shit in Israel.
To many civilians are involved in this nightmare.
The IDF mod has nothing to do with this I hope.

The mod is a portrayal of the IDF. Whether you like the real world IDF or not, it's still a fun mod, to play in a fun game. That's the bottom line I guess...

I expected to hear some debate about this mod so please guys,  don't hold back about your feelings on the mod, the IDF, or whatever.

should post our little chat here coco   ;) that would cause debate

Jerusalem is not palastinian land... ALL JERUSALEM IS ISRAEL LAND..
and that daaaam palastenian barber can go shoot himself... or better yet... he can come to me... i will shoot the bastard...
as for IDF... it is the BEST army in the world... BEST... no other army, NO OTHER, could have coped with an urban fighting like the IDF... the great US army wants advice from our army... U HERE THAT??? we got the best innovative army in the world... and we still HIDE a lot of capabilities... ALOT (not only those that do mashrums)...

IDF rulez

Although not eloquently stated, Jamus is correct, Israel has nuclear weapons and I'm sure if threatened would use them. I guess thas why no country has tried to invade them. I really don't think anyone here is debating the performance record of the IDF, and it is one of the motivating factors behind this mod, although I am biased towards the US Army since I served there 7 years. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)

Wonder what that edit was... ;D

Hey Jamus I appreciate the enthusiasm but please keep it civilized... Raven is referring to a conversation we had on IM, it was a great convo and a lot about the Palestinian/IDF situation was discussed. Ironically, I said the same thing about the "occupied" territories all falling within Israel's borders. People talk about these areas like they are in another country and the IDF just rolled into them.

No disrespect Cobra, when comparing the IDF to our forces here in the US. My Grandpops made a pilgrimage to Israel years ago (he's christian, but it a holy place to us too!), but he's a Navy man and he'd slap me if he heard me say anything about another nation's forces comparing to ours, lol..

None Taken, Buuuuttttt we did whip Iraq in 100 hours of ground fighting. I can hear the rhetoric now...but Iraq's military was in piss poor shape and so on, but remember we fought a tank battle like the world has never seen. When I got out of the Army in 1992, the US Army was the best trained, best equipped Army in the world, bar none. In the months leading up to Desert Shield, before we knew we would be going to war, President Bush had total confidence in his military forces. He knew that if we had to use our forces there was no one in the world that could stand up to us, and to this day I do not think you will find a better Army than the US Army of 1990-1992.

BTW...if I could do a mod, it would be the modeled after the 1st battalion 52nd Infantry...The BEST mechanized force in the world!

Tank mod...hmmm :D

Ive been studying the IDF for a LONG time and ive read pretty much every word on isayeret.com (which is my fav site). Anyway, the IDF does have disadvantages as far as organization goes. For example there are too many SF units with many of them covering the same responsibilities. I dont know too much about the U.S military but I have a feeling it is very nicely organized. Also, budget problems are a real pain in the ass for the IDF. It would be good if they had nice flow of extra cash. There are also some really stupid political problems that put limits on the IDF. For example, due to political pressure, the IDF now has to employ the IMI Tavor which the they dont really want (especially because of a major tactical flaw that means it cant be used in CQB). They would much rather use the US m16-m4, which is better and can be bought using the US foreign military aid Israel receives. Oops, sorry for raving!

IMI is currently negotiating to have some percentage of the Tavor-2's built here in the US, so they'd be able to use portions of the US military aid money to pay for them. It is widely believed to be an inferior weapon to the M4, but it's an Israeli weapon from an Israeli weapons firm... It's already being used in CQB environments, however, several of the IDF mod's splash screens depict operators using them in Jenin. There are long to super-short versions of the Tavor-2, but the main percieved drawback is that it's much more awkward to reload, so swapping mags takes longer.

The UK is similar in that it has pushed Bullpup rifles almost since their inception, and today the standard issue UK rifle is the Enfield SA80, considered to be one of the worst rifles in the world. Now if they all just replaced them with Steyr AUG's..... ;)

Hmmm I thought the problem was that the bullets eject too close to the face or something like that. As for the mod, to my painfull misfortune I havent actually played it. I have a confession to make. I have the warez version (but ONLY because I cant afford it) so I cant install the patch which means I cant seem to get mods to work. Damn I wanna play it!!! :(

All bullpups eject on the opposite side , adjacent to the face... I think that would be a matter of preference rather than a design flaw. This is the Tavor's third full rediesgn so I think it's pretty refined at this point. It's just such a drastic difference from the traditional layout of the m4  (not to mention the modular nature of the M4) that many just don't want to change.

Weird, I do not approove the use of weapons to kill civilians and less children.

I see the MOD and it's real life characteristics as top weapon technology.
A few weeks ago I used a Galil assault rifle on a shooting range, hell this gun is great, I sprayed with it as a subgun and later I put on a scope to shoot at 100m small groups.

Hey, guns don't kill people, people kill people... right?

Yep, Coco I agree with you.

i thought its the BANG that kills people ;)

Well the person who pulls the trigger pointing at an civilian or child is a murderer.

(http://www.infonegocio.com/dixi/images/oh.jpg)

 The picture with the soldier pointing a gun to 2 children is a fake... even a baby can see that... and i can edit a picture like this in 10 minutes...



about the Tavor... it was experimented in a platoon, a second platoon got the m4 for experiment... guess what??? the TAVOR was praised by the soldiers that are testing it... now , i am sure  our army will get the best rifle... which is the TAVOR...
bullets will be bought from america ...

this is what i know....

When I was a soldier I would have shot a child in a heartbeat if my life depended upon it. I still feel that way to this day...if a 13 year old kid pulls a gun on me, guess what, I'm going home at the end of the day. It's funny, but people do not realize that children can be as much of a soldier as someone who is 25 years old. If you watched BHD, remember the part where the Ranger is coming out of that house and he slips and the kid kills his father, well, I would have dusted the kid also. You are in a war enviroment with kids hauling around AK47's and wearing Load Bearing Equipment, they are now COMBATANTS...just my 3 cents worth.

dont forget that other BHD part where the lady (in a panic) picks up an AK. that soldier waited untill his life was in danger untill he pulled the trigger.

"DONT YOU DO IT! DONT YOU DO IT!" ...

whether you like it or not, you would do the same thing. in an adrenaline rush, sometimes ur mind thinks FOR you... if u know what i mean. u wanna die? didnt think so.

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif)

Hey guys, could I ask you a question. How did the army change your life? I intend to be in the IDF in a year or two and I think it will be a great thing for me. Make me stronger mentally and physically. Whats your opinions on the military?

Not to go back on the topic but Masiro, you shoud be able to tell how fake that pic is! I have the original pic of the IDF operator, he's aiming at militants who are advancing in the original photo. Don't be fooled by the propaganda buddy, the IDF don't have to fabricate pictures of dead civilians for publicity, all you have to do is watch the news.

Sulph the only way the Army changed my life is that I dislike weapons and war more than ever. I became a pacifist and think computer games are enough. On our first combat simulation I have learned that you probably won't see your enemy when you get shot. He just lies somewhere aims and bang. That was your life. Great, wasn't it. Well the Army  shows you your physical and mental borders but I think that didn't make me stronger. It only changes my way how I think about crisis. Because whenever I have troubles with my girlfriend, with money,... I think back to my Army time and I know it could be worse hehe. In Austria I was forced to join the Army for 8 months the only option was to do civil services for 12 months but I didn't want to lose more time until I can go to university. At all if you have the choice don't join the Army(when I speak of Army I mean all parts of it, Infantry, Navy,Airforce,...). You risk your life!!! You can forget your private life you had before  and last but not least you get paid bad for what you risk.

Do something constructive! - My advice.

Regards,

Mauti

(http://www.infonegocio.com/dixi/images/oh.jpg)


(http://www.elpais.es/diario/media/200208/30/internacional/20020830elpepiint_2_I_SCO.jpg)

In response to what *DAMN Mauti wrote:

Seems that your had quite a bad time in the army. However, I do not think you should extend it on the whole army or the service in the army.

I come from Germany, and I did my 10 months of military conscript service in a tank bataillon. It was not always great, but there were times I really liked it, for example the comradeship, the bivouac, and, of course, the days on the shooting range firing G3, G36, MG3, MP2 Uzi, P1, P8, Panzerfaust 3. I even got a chance to fire an SL-8 and a MP5K-PDW.  ;D

You usually do not get to see the guy who shoots you (that is why sniper fire is so bad for morale...). But if you play a computer game like Ghost Recon you also act like that, picking off enemy soldiers at a great distance without them knowing what hit them. Great...

I also would have been able to go to university earlier if I did not have to do my military service here in Germany. If I had chosen civil service instead of military service I would have served 1 month longer, so there  is no big difference. Some of my friends did civil service, and they also did not do highly productive work all the time (some did much less than me in the miltary  ;D).

Payment is bad, all right (but is there any army in the world where you can make a fortune?), and you do not get to see your girlfriend too often (but the less you see her, the nicer are the times you are with her  ;))

"Do something constructive":
During the flooding here in Germany (and in Austria as well) a lot of soldiers (conscripts) did (and still do) a great job helping to stem the flood and clean up the mess it left. In my opinion, this is something constructive

Sulph8:

A lot of things you are going to expericence in the army are, in my opinion, really ridicilous and are a waste of time. You will have to decide yourself, since every case is different...

Just my 2 cents...

Well thanx for your opinions guys. Much appreciated.

How had I missed all that...

nm, I'm here now :)

I was in the IDF, for 3 years.
It is, definitely, a well worth experience - I would recommend all to pass, as it does give you a slightly different approach to life afterwords, yes - even, as *DAMN Mauti said, if it's only in "I've been to worst" kind of feeling... though I seriously doubt that and I really think you'll learn and experience A LOT.

as a regular soldier (regular army or "sadir" as it's called here) the pay is worst the worse. for warriors at A+ risk level it's around 135$ per month (a bit less) whilst for support stuff its halt that much. I'm sure you see how ridiculous that amount is.
come to think about it, I never really left the army as I'm (and will do for a couple of dozens years) reservist (about a month, or a bit more, a year).

I do believe Israel has a great army, but by no means capable of dealing with a western power (hypothetically) because of economic dependencies (a simple see block for a relatively extended period will suffice).
by that I do not mean any disrespect as the IDF has more tanks then Britain, France and Germany combined, a larger air-force (that is considered among the best in the world, if not the best) then each of them, more soldiers (regular and reserve) then each of them etc.. etc. and all that on a combined budget of all of israel security elements including army, navy and air-force, intelligent agencies (mosad), shabak (internal affairs agency equivalent ~ to the FBI), police, R&D agencies, etc. etc. of one fifth of the CIA's budget alone (less the half of britain's army, which is smaller, alone)... now THAT IS very impressive :)

about the palestinian conflict - the REAL story is VERY complex and the more I study it (I'm a real history freak) I come to see that, after all, Israel is on a much higher moral and historical right (not inc. biblical)
I might explain, some of it, someday if you insist :)
In the mean time why don't you read a post of mine (http://www.hwzone.co.il/community/index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=17057;start=60) in English at my site (btw the biggest Israeli HW site, recently voted best site in it's category by a leading daily newspaper's site ;D ) it is a repost of a very old post of mine at netscape forums that I can't seem to find anymore... (it's the only thing in English in the middle of the page, you CAN'T miss it  :) )

c'ya and hope to here from you all, Wiz.

see = sea..
and some other spelling (perhaps) and phrasing (definitely) mistakes..
if one of th mods can correct that - it will be great, as I can't edit because I hadn't register...

sorry in advance.. It's mid-morning here and I'm in real sleep deprivation from all night (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/sleeping.gif)

whaoo guys, thank, i really happy u chose idf, im in the idf and yes we kick our ass there to get things right and protect the people, its a mayhem here (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/so.gif)

I have never been in the military but I have always been a history buff and military minded.  It has been the single biggest regret in my life but now I serve my country and community as a medic.  I think the IDF is a superior fighting force.  This MOD definately pays them respect.  I can't wait to see some mission MODS made for IDF.