*DAMN R6 Forum

sorry this guy is crasy he also banned maco wich is premium for one year and was waiting to renew is member ship, then he renew and still he is banned !!!

evill if it was not so sad and stupid i would have LOLed u!! but now i think u got a iQ close to ur anal Temparature cause doing that wont bring u new client just makes u an popular!!!

u also banned some ZTs guys and some more people

i wanted to propose a boycot but i know its hard

so i just propose to inform noobs about u and ur behaviors!! also on version tracker and some french magazine about ur spyware and commercial abits

a very an happy customers of urs
ghost

Everybody who got banned knowingly disregarded the rule that non-Premiums are not allowed to use NF or KDX by using workarounds, nothing else. They all have the possibility to get themselves unbanned by renewing or buying Premium. So if Maco did that, he'll get unbanned as soon as Evill notices it. Narsil just renewed his this evening and I'll notify Evill on GR if necessary.

Edit: Btw... only 3 members of [TRIBE] got banned. Maco, Vans and GT4. Maco should be unbanned by now since he renewed his Premium, same goes for z][t-Narsil and dr.blake. Don't know if anyone else of the banned people bought or renewed Premium.

Simple question. Where in the TOA does it say, and please quote it for me, that you may not use NF or KDX when running GR.

Oh c'mon... you know exactly that it isn't permitted, that NF/KDX-use while playing on GameRanger is Premium-only. There is enough scope in the ToS that he isn't breaking them.

no, that is not my question. Where in the TOA does it say you may not use it? if someone runs KDX on one computer and runs GR on another is that also not allowed? Where is it clearly stated what may and may not be done on your computer regarding other applications and GR?

Personally, I am on the fence in this discussion. I can see evill's point of banning those people for using a workaround, however I also see BFG's point that nowhere in the TOS does it say that you can not use any other applications while running GR. Also, in the case of Eight, he is a paying customer to NF. He subscribed to this service. So why can he not use this service whenever he sees fit? Did he not pay for that right? Or does he have to pay additional to evill to maintain the right that he already payed haxial for? Another way to look at it would be a case where we all buy the games we play on here but then evill would charge us an additional cost to play the games on GR that we had already bought. This is an example and thank gawd he has not done so, but it seems similar to Eight's situation. Eight purchased a subscription to NF but has to pay an additional charge to use it if he wasnts to use NF while running GR.

Ein

just informed MR jean pierre Gianetti DIRECTOR MARKETING SMB APPLE EUROPE of the all cituation !!!

will see now what will appened !!

No more comment!!

five minutes after i paid, i sent an email to the fuc.... Evill to refund my money. he contacted me to know why? asked him where he written we can't use NF in game without premium? well no answer.

As well i have the 30 day money-back guarante, hope he is not a ROBBER too.

GAMERANGER is a SpyWare and don't have more octet on my mac.

Ask just one favor (except civic). Just don't connect one day in GR in my memory :) nop i have a better idea. Open a room and put in the description " in memory of [TRIBE]Maco".

thx for this two years.

Civic, i dislike you since long time (you are retarted as you like say for lot of players), it's clear. Play the evill's dog but one day.........

And on more thing for you DOG; vans - maco - GT4 - vanq - crovax (brother of narsil) it's five , but dog cannot calculate.  ;D

Crovax has been banned, too, because he's Narsil's brother and therefore has the same IP. Narsil got unbanned, so Crovax can most probably connect to GameRanger again. He never got officially banned. And if you wouldn't have talked so much crap about it being Spyware etc, as you probably did in your eMail to him also, you would've gotten unbanned, too. Way to go, the only person you can complain to is yourself. Good job.

shut up DOG :-X

your can't understand dog, i don't want more joining this spyware.

understand or need to speak ouarff ouarff

Yes yes, that's why you renewed your Premium, in hope to get unbanned, because you didn't want to join this "spyware" anymore. Right... you fucked that chance up yourself and now you're trying to excuse your own fault by talking crap about it. De façon amusante. ::lol::

Even if i got unbanned now, im still not pleased with the way the whole thing happend! Its not right that he banned us without a warning... Even if Civic says, that Evill wouldnt have to! Its just not fair and quiet bad in my eyes, casue there isnt a STRICT rule about the NF thing in the TOA! And the thing about the "Spyware", omg that sucks!

the other thing i wanted to mention, is that alot of people share the opinion that GameRanger is not worth the money! And in my Eyes Mr Scott Kevill alias "Evill the God of Gameranger" should really support this application better. The ingame-voice is still crap but instead of doing something against it, Evill creates a newswindow and some other usless stuff, who the fuck needs that? The only thing because one buys premium is the gamevoice, isnt it?

And as long Kevill is not going to change anyting, this was defenitely my last Premium sign-up! And there are others in this Community with the same opinion, im sure!

I feel sorry for all the Banned people!

 actualy he has finetuned Premium Voice qutie well, it isnt perfect, but its way less bandwidth than Skype or iChat, possibly nf and KDX too.

And it's great to talk with other Premium people in the gameroom, without having to be connected with the in NF or KDX, simply easier. The only thing that still forces most people to not use GR in-game voicechat for CBs is that you have to press a button to talk, and can't setup the sensitivity and such which is quite important. But since it's both Premium-only we can just continue to use NF or KDX for CBing and GR in-game voicechat for normal playing. No big deal. In case of soundquality and use of bandwidth both are very good, GR having the advantage of a very fast server for it instead of person-to-person connections (KDX has the possibility of a audiochat server, too, but sucks in case of bandwidth use as far as I tried it).

its still not perfect in my eyes..there could be a seperate small application, created by Evill, like Nf is!
Or do you like it to press a button all the time to speak?

My last premium too. Evill took it too far and my support for this is gone. When I’m no longer premium, Evill can permaban me for using NF, and I will find other places to play.

last renew for me too

but i got connection i will use them as much as i can

maybe for nothing but will see

ps : civic : future will show u if u were wrong or right to support a bad business ethics, remember he will get what he deserve!!

my renewal is coming up... i don't be doing it.

I feel with you, BFG - i would rather buy something else than spending 50 bucks on having a backgreyed name and be able to be in the command and bunker. This is my last renew too, don't flame me too much now civic. I'm tired of all this bullshit going on with evill, he is being an asshole - he could be a rich man right now,  and earn good money on GR but instead he wants to be a prick, and won't handle this business with he's daily customers -  i hope all these complaints will make him change his mind, and behave like a business man, and try to make a future for the mac gaming.  He is getting more and more hated it's actually just about time till someone get's something up, and i'm 100 % that you, CIVIC will be seen in that new application if it was made. I dunno if Evill is paying you anything, for all that you back him up. but ask yourself, why do you need to back him up? what does it help you?

Don't get me wrong tho, i love to play with all you guys on gameranger. I love clan battling every clan out there, i'm having great fun - i'm just like " is this really happening, he banned two of my team mates at least warn them before you do it, i'm sure they would stop with using NF if they just got warned.

As for the spyware thing, can someone please tell me about it? - if i get you all right, then he has the right to look at what i am doing right now? ehh?


Just my thoughts, please do not misunderstand me we all have opinions and mine is  -  Evill just lost a lot of money, how does he wan't to pay the bills now? heeh.  ;D

(Ps.. im waiting for your fast answer civic) ::lol::

z][t-Stripes

I get it... its the sheep scoring system, maybe you could all be lemmings as well and jump of the cliff together  ::wall::

its as simple as this...

they got caught using a work around, they got banned at evill's discretion, whatever. They knew what they were doing was wrong, if NF/KDX were ok to use as non prem, why do you need to use a workaround.

Yeah, it may suck, yeah you might not agree with it, but it happened.

Stripes, does it really matter how much he makes or doesnt make?, go ring the CEO of Sky TV and bitch about how much he/she earns, and why can't you have it cheaper, and the moan some more about how you might not like the layout of the menu system, and then wait to see if its changed just for you. And then using a hack, or whatever you want to call it to get more free channels, then you get caught and then fined...

Fine be mad, fine be pissed, be upset for members that got banned, but you KNEW what you were doing.

anyway, i will probably have 10 more replys by the time i wake up in the morning flaming me.

I'm in no way gonna flame you, onwig - we all have opinions, But when you defend Evill then you have to defend him in ALL ways.

as like: When you send an email, about question a complain
or in fact anything - Then you get NOTHING.
Seriously, is that a good way to be? when people spend money on his work? then people want's improvements, maybe you don't and that's cool - you like to chat much, you can't ask for new features you got the commandbunker and i see you like it. I know for a fact that many Active players want's new features, new behavior from Evill else we can't enjoy our games and actually more detailed enjoy our time on GR together.

z][t-Stripes  ::ass::

lemme complete the sentance there... I still play to much, i need to be doing everything i can to stop myself, and thanks to Saberian im kinda hooked on AA now anyway. maybe one day GhR 3 will role around... till then, im done.

This question goes for Mauti:

Since we're banned from GR this mean we can't compete in the DBL right?

For Dark:
It doesn't matter what the hell he fined tuned. The fact is, with a program like NF/KDX I can then talk to other people outside of the GR/MAC world. I have no problems PAYING THE 50 DOLLARS.

I do have a problem with Evill making the entire 50$ for me to be able to use another companies product... Here's the golden question......

How much is Haxial making off of me every year?

If he were to just give some money to Haxial... 20-25$ since i never used his voice chat feature and his ladder system stinks...

Imagine playing a 3 hour C&C game with some asshole (like baron smedi) to only have the host put "dispute the win" which does nothing but make you look like a troubled player...

Has he ever wondered about that hakf ass ladder system he has and why no one uses it?
Hey mauti, next time someone has a problem in your league, lets just make it so that they get a % over their dispute level. Admins are not needed.... Lets see how much longer the dbl or any ladder system will last...

He basically did this work, did it half assed, wonders why no one uses it, then goes ahead and ban users who use GR the most, knowing that he can make a quick 50$ for a blackmail stint.

I have seen people get away with murder in front of him. Racism remarks, terrorist names etc...

Here is another example.. What if Mauti added some really shitty mail function to the DBL. And everytime u wanted to use it, it would make your apple mail not work. On top of that,  if you use your apple mail you will be banned unless you pay Mauti 50$ a year. ALL OF A SUDDEN Mauti changes everything... yeah maybe it is his right to do so...  But is that smart? You think advertsiers don't do research before spending the money?

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15178

HAHA this version got 1 star, and now hes banning some of the most online who use his service most?

His time has come... Oh and leave a comment I'm sure gaming companies love to read that. especially when Scoty boy may be lobbying for some advertisers.

ROFLMAO eight the 1 star is based on the large group of people who have commented and actually given a star rating on this version which is the grand total of "1".

No, you are allowed to play anytime if you get a cb going, because you are still a GameRanger operating clan, this rule has just been added so that not a PC clans that plays tons of other, maybe even selfmade, PC clans and we can't oberserve if those players really exist and in the case of an issue we have a chatplace to talk with them.

Bye,

Mauti

Exactly. This is where Evill is abusing his "power". This is why he needs to be punished. This is what he needs to remove from his unwritten ruleset. Or maybe next time he needs money, he will ban people for using Photoshop?

if you all think its so god damn cheap, and so stupid application.
And the admin is nothing but a jerk. Then ffs make your own application, try to maintain a community of atleast 15000 active users. Have a disease on your hands, still create new features and not going bankrupt at the same time.

Just look at GameScouter, what happend to it ? It disapeared.
Triage Software's "iGame" what happend to it ? It never got released.

I really want to see you "people" manage to do a application with the same standard as GameRanger has, have the same amount of games GameRanger has and still don't go under.

The application is not stupid or cheap, but the admin is acting as a jerk atm.

Then it stills comes down to, do you think you could do a better job as an admin over 15000 active users, and still try to earn money?

I don’t say that anywhere, and you know it. Stop busting my balls? I just say his ethics are to be questioned.

Couldnt have said it better Ethion 
 ::applause::

I also don't understand how you can defend Evill here!

However everyone should have already complaint when he started to block Netfone, and not afterwards.

I think it's plain wrong to forbid other paid applications to increase his customer base...Usually you should persuade customer because of better quality and/or features, but this is just a bad form of blackmailing the customer. Requiring a toll to use other cool game tools...

And Eight or whoever posted it is that far away: what comes next? The BF Demo is already only allowed to premium users - A deal between Aspyr and Evill. So next time only premium users are allowed to use mods, or what!? Even if I can understand the motives there better, because people started to integrate mods into the demo...

Bringing up the old NF discussion (which was not nice maybe, sure, but completely legal) is besides the point, it's just a try to distract because why they were banned is totally justified. You can compare it with using a No-CD crack for a game without owning it legally, and getting caught doing so. And anyways... 99% of the people pirated NF and KDX, that's a known fact.

The point of removing the BF1942 Demo has nothing to do with Premium. The intention was not at all to push Premium, it was to push the sales of the full game. It was simply overplayed, big time, without the intention of purchasing the full game, after having "tested" the demo daily, for months, by hundreds of people. Aspyr then decided to do something about it, they even wanted to remove it from the internet (GameRanger) completely. Evill simply agreed with them to still give Premium users the chance to play it and/or try the BF1942 demo. People still have the Single-Player Demo of BF1942 available to test it.

I still don't see where it is totally justified! I don't know how the work around works but I guess GameRanger hasn't been altered in any way to make NF work, which would be clearly  against the TOS, otherwise I was reading again the TOS that is in my GameRanger folder and couldn't find any information about limitations of using other applications while running GameRanger.

And if you read me correct, you would know that the old NF discussion isn't beside the point:

I mentioned it in the way that they should have complaint before, when the limitation was added not yet afterwards where they are banned, which of course leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Mauti

It's not about the old NF discussion. They did complain before, and continued to use GameRanger, and KNEW that it wasn't permitted for non-Premiums. They knowingly disregarded it by using a workaround to make it possible (comparable with an illegal no-CD crack/hack, as I said), got caught and punished for that, nothing else. It's also in the ToS that other voicechat applications may not be compatible with GameRanger.

I must be missing something.

2 years ago evill implemented the fact the free version of GR doesnt work with KDX/NF, we all had arguments about it, there was a thread that went to something like 9 pages. Even after this there were more threads on different forums about it. It got accepted, some didnt like it, some were not bothered about it.

All the people on this forum knew about it, the people that got banned knew about this, they knew they were using a workaround that let the free version of GR work. Call it a hack, call it what you like, you were doing something that you were not supposed to be doing. I could take pity on people more if they were newbs to GR and then found out about it. But the people banned were simply not newbs.

So, ok.. he could have handed a lesser sentence out, he could have given you a 30 min 30 day 60 day ban, it's up to him, its his business, you were bypassing it.

I still can't understand why people are defending it  ::wall::

fine, we have lost some nice people, and my clan leader being one of them.

All the time its, "why doesnt he do this", and "why doesnt he do that", just sit down for a second and think to yourselfs... why should he?, all everyone does is bitch all the time when he does something.

The fact that he is online allows people to bitch at him, and send him abuse by email, rate his product badly on another website (which i think is the lowest of the low).

Business ethics...

He still lets people play everyday for free, he doesnt force prem on people. You have a choice

He better should update the users tos with every new GameRanger update, mine doesn't have this line in it, but it's probably only outdated.


Onwig, you better should see this is an exchange of opinions not a discussion, because no one will move away from his point of view.

eh?, how is this not a discussion? and they are my opinions

and btw, its not in the tos, i didnt ever say it was in the tos.

I fail to see how this can be called a hack when Gameranger has been in no way edited, altered, or tampered with in any shape or form. What my gripe is the fact that this is dictating what you can and cannot do on your computer while running GR - As its been discussed, do you think people would complain if Microsoft suddenly decided that you couldn't run Internet Explorer and itunes at the same time? - just imagine if your sat at your pc at work listening to your music, and then as you lauch IE it forces itunes to quit... why u might ask, well because microsoft have made their own music app and want to force people to buy it instead of using the free itunes.

So can if im not premium, can i run Gameranger and Netfone at the same time? Where does it say what i can and cannot do?  Is it a 'hack' if i run NF on another computer so i can talk to my bro at uni while im playing games? where is the clear information that tells people what is and isn't permitted.

It is in mine:


Last edit of this file, Terms and Conditions of Use, was on November 11th 2003, according to its info.[/color]

Yup, then we have the same TOS and now I could find this line. However this doesn't include that it is not allowed to use other voice applications(beside the fact that we know what Evill allows or not)

However a new GR user that may brings NF to run, can't know about it, can he!?

Bye,

Mauti

Is it illegal to use ichat?

Right, a new GR user wouldn't or couldn't know about it. But this is by far not the case for all of the persons who got banned. ;)


No.

no kidding Mags


lol civic, is that the response? ok so that line is saying that you might find that GR isn't compatible with other voice coms... makes it sound like its a known bug etc, not something that has been deliberately blocked, and that if you manage to get the two running will result in being banned.
If the TOA read somthing like this :
"Game-ranger does not allow users to use KDX or Netfone while playing games. Using KDX or Netfone while playing a game connected through Gameranger is a breach of TOA and you will be banned"

then i would say fair enough, its in the TOA, its your call. it isn't, it wasn't, and i think this is pretty crap

um iChat is a voice comms software - so where does it differentiate between the two?

Knew you'd ask that. ;) Simple, because it's not an alternative for NF or KDX, it has nothing to do with the different company, same goes for Skype. They're bandwidth hogs and absolutely unsuitable for online-gaming. No reason to disallow them, your own problem if you use them for this purpose. ;)

Ahhh so instead of saying this:


it should read the following:


Just to get one thing straight, i've been using GR for bloody years now, and premium for a couple, i think its a great app, it does exactly what you want it to do - connect u to lots of other players and give u the ability to easily host, join and play games. Im all for scott actually making some money from all this work, and its well deserved, i just don't feel that this is the way to do it.

no, he could have made it so its payment only, he could have made a 300 second timer, he could make it so you only get 30 days of free service, he could make it so you only get 30 mins to play, he could make it where non prems can't host, theres loads of things he could do.

For the new people joining, they are unaware of the whole not being able to use KDX/NF while not being prem, so for those new people thats not really an issue, they would just login try the software find out it doesnt work and assume its always been like that.

Just as if evill had just started that thing from when we all joined, we would have been non the wiser for quite some time, if at all.

I rarely use the in-voice just because I don't really have a need for it, even though it's better than N Yes, how can this not be a discussion? We have two different sides, one that things that GameRanger is nothing but shit. And Evill is a total jerk and so on.

And other people thinks otherwise.

From what i know, you haven't even tried premium, so you don't really know what it means.
If you want it in a "exchange of opinions" idea.

As for him going on a banning spree, that's for him to decide to decide. Alot of other companies does the same thing, they want to protect their property. Even though Microsoft is a dumb company and Ballmer can stroke my cock. He wants to protect what is his, that chinese guy that joined Google.
So if non-premium just go around and use NF or KDX they are violating the TOS as you have seen, then Evill is loosing money, on a service that alredy has the feature.

And as usual onwig has a point with his post about the restrictions, and Evill is going to restrict more. Although I doubt we will ever see a all-premium service.

You both misunderstood me here: I just wanted to say, that no one will be able to convince the other side that he is right.

Yes, I never saw any feature that would justify Premium for me, especially because I'm hardly online. Neverhteless I have Netphone and find it a pity that I can't use it.

Mauti

quote #1 (Terms of Use, GameRanger, 11. Nov. 2003)
"GameRanger Technologies reserves the right to terminate or suspend your use of GameRanger at any time, for any conduct that in GameRanger Technologies, in its sole discretion, believes violates these Terms and Conditions of Use or that is otherwise harmful to other GameRanger users."

this means one can simply get banned for something or for nothing. since GR is GR Technologie's service they have the right to do so.

quote #2 (Terms of Use, GameRanger, 11. Nov. 2003)
"GameRanger may not be compatible with other voice communication software."

this way of choosing the words disguises the intentional implementation of a feature that disables the functionality of NetFone and/or KDX. bad style. and there is no announcement of a punishment if one tries a workaround for it. but anyway, if GR Technologies gets notice of this workaround (and if they won't tolerate it) one will be banned (see quote #1).

looks like they can do anything they want to, regardless of any netiquettes.

my only questions are:
1. how (which technical way) can GR Technologies get notice of the use of such a workaround?
2. is this way of getting notice implemented in the GR application?
3. if yes, is it considered illegal in australia?
4. if yes, who could and want to bring charges against it?

i think if you can't answer question 3. with "yes" you can do nothing but boycott this service or accept the inconvenience.

Given that the work around does not involve making any changes to the application in any shape or form, then one of the two must be the case:

1. Game-ranger is collecting other information etc that we are not aware off other than the necessary info for checking game versions, check and dl updates, and anything needed to connect players to games, and the fact u obviously have to connect to the GR server etc.

2. Somebody told Scott that there were these players who (by using the work around)  were using the app, but were not premium.

and now: when there is no evidence which version is most plausible? the answer drives us to the question: are both points illegal in australia. and can one something really do against it?

if point 1. is most plausible but there is no evidence why did anyone "interrogate" the application in question in the past?

Hrm, here's a different thought about this whole topic.

Why are you arguing this now, because you finally got banned?

All that are bitching knew this has been in effect for quite some time.  I know we all bitched about it when it was enacted, but now that you got banned it is suddently worth bitching about again? If you really cared about the issue you would of either done something else since then or continued bitching.  But instead, you finally got caught, got banned, and screamed all bloody hell. Well, stop acting surprised that it finally happened, maybe he let it go on since it's inception, or maybe the workaround got out of control and needed to be curtailed.

In the end true, you may not agree with what is going on or you may not even like the program anymore.  But ffs, stop yapping with anger, slander and absolute stupidity.  In the end it's his program, his creation, his code, and he can do with it as he sees fit. Everything else is just a waste of keystrokes and empty threats.

hehehe, let's push around those ban whiners!  ::lol::

Just a question.... when installing GhR to play online, you must download several patches so that it can be played online. You do not need these patches for SP games, just to play the game online with multiple people. Are these patches considered to be workarounds also? If they are workarounds that are necessary to play the game and are still allowed by the GR TOA, then  which workarounds are ok and which arent? The way I see it, if GR may not be compatible with some voice applications, the workaround that these people created seem very similar to a patch to make their voice application compatible with GR.

Ein

yeah ein, but the correct workaround was getting premium.  besides, patches make sure the games is fixed of errors and problems, GR doesn't let older versions play because it would screw the shit out of the game or not even work at all.  So, if you wanted the most updated and best playable game, even the single player needs teh patches.

Nobody created workaround, nobody hacked GR to use NF.
Just 3 easy steps (not illegal) in the finder to fix the bug "not compatible voice" of gameranger.

yes, the workaround just magically appeared on your computer and you were able to use netfone.  Either you sought information on how to bypass teh system or tinkered with it until it worked.  I think that sounds much more correct then your ideal of it just magically appearing to you one day like the 10 commandments. 

But since when has a patch to make something more compatable ever costed an additional $50. If somone purchased nf, why should they have to pay an additional service charge to use the product which they have already purchased. It is like I said in an earlier post, imagine having to pay an additional $50 to play RvS or GhR in multiplayer mode when you had already bought the game which has a multiplayer option included in it and payed the orignal price for the game.

Ein

 Eight, the person who my post was directed at deleted their post after what I said.  I never said I like Premium better, honestly I like NF much better than premium chat, for the whole reason (like you said) that you can be talking to people outside of GR and whatever game you are in.  But someone made the ignorant comment that premium voice was shitty, and I felt obligated to correct them.

Ein, xbox and playstation already do it to all the multiplayer games.  So this is nothing new.  He removed kdx and netfone because he claims premium has a comparible service to them.  And why offer premium capabilities to someone who refuses to pay to use his service, basic service = basic features.

The same arguement can be made to photoshop for having photoshop elements and regular, or other software companies now offering "professional" versions of what used to be the same old programs.  Not all 3rd party utilities work with the basic packages of these programs, and unless you pay for the premium versions, not everything works the same.

Besides, most of you act as if he took away the ability to multiplayer game with netfone outright.  If you didn't like what he was doing, IP game and use netfone with multiplayer as much as you like.  Don't abuse his system to make your life easier and then blame him for not allowing it.  I mean, it takes sense to realize he is doing with what he owns.  You can still multiplayer and nf as much as you like, just don't use GR, GR is a convenience not an outright gift.  Two very different things

faqQ2, well you know now lol.

work with all app.

"sorry sorry sorry", i think you can use this word ;)

even my son can do the 3 steps lol

If his mentality is that premium has comparable features to nf and kdx, then why allow other voice programs such as skype or ichat. Back in the day (when nf first got disabled) my clan at the time found many other programs that worked just as well as nf or even better in some instances because they had additional features that nf did not have. If you are going to ban one or 2 programs, why not ban them all, not just the most popular ones.

Ein

Well maco, much like you, your son would be banned.  I never said intelligence was needed to do it, but I bet you felt really stupid when you got caught, because you are wasting so much time here bitching what is now out of your control once again.

I can't speak for Scott and why he blocked just netfone, but we all miss the point that he is doing this as a public service for you to game easier. The basic point is either go with the flow of GR or get out of the way.  It's going to happen with or without you, whether or not you like it, and he hasn't taken anything away from what you can do without his service.

Seems like this argument can go either way. One side is the side most would side with. (the non-premium scum of GR) The other is the rational people (aka those who understand business). If Evill sees a threat to his service, he is going to do his best to eliminate it. I mean for something like GameSpy, where the volume of users is enormous, the creator(s) might be able to ignore it a bit more because GameSpy makes much more money than GameRanger does personally. If you don't like the way Evill runs GR, then go start your own damn Mac gaming program. (and fail miserably all the same)

new feedback see and laugh  ::lol::

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15178

That's actually not very funny. At all. I find it horrendous that you guys point and laugh at GameRanger after years of cherishing it's existence, just because you were banned. Grow up and get over it.

what are we laughing at maco?, you being a complete moron?

A somewhat fitting cartoon. ;) (again)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1371/zits5kg.gif)

haha joka, nice example.....  ::applause::

Never
I said to evill, one way for me now, ask to his fucker.

hep just one question, someone have address or information about existance legal of GameRanger?
and if one day GR is off, where you put your money feedback?

To Red Dust

I find your replies to be the most relevant in this thread.
They are down to the point figuring out what the prob is - and at same time trying to clear if anybody want to do anything at all about it.

I dont live in Australia - so consequently i cant take the immidiate action and "lawsuit" GameRanger, or whatever other action could be imagined.


I do however remember how Gameranger appeared, and what GameRanger for years chose to be its " competitive " edge :

"Free online gaming for Mac Users"

I also remember how Scott for more than a year  tried in various ways to change the basic-concept into something that would not only be profitable due to advertiser-payments, but also profitable due to user-payments.

He ended up with this "Premium" idea.
The only problem for him was, that noone actually wanted to buy Premium. I mean - why should they ?
If he chose to limit the service for the free users, they at that time would have switched instantly to the two competitors available ( one of them only "almost") in those days.

I was one of those who couldnt see any point at all in switching to Premium. I dont give a f... how my name appear in a GameRanger window, and I dont care at all, if I would miss the holy secrets they talk of in a restricted main-window.

So - this idea of conceptual switching his GR into user-payments was NOT succesful at all.

Then I remember in the middle of a battle-season, we suddenly found out we couldnt use our beloved NetFone anymore. My clan could suddenly not communicate, while playing online-macgames on a "serious" level - clan-gaming.

I remember the " WHAT THE F......." on GR when it happened.  
Oh yeah. A lot of us do, i guess.

We didnt have the time for taking part in a complicated an seemingly endless discussion with Scott,
and we were losing our clanbattles big time, when we lost the chance to communicate.

Consequently we were forced to pay Premium. And for what ?
All my clan-mates ( cheers BFG ) have disabled the Premium voicechat system. We simply never use it.
We only had to buy Premiu7m so we could continue the use of our NetFone.

Another - very unlucky - consequence is, that the rare and cosy visits from clanmembers that used to just pop in and out every 2.nd month or so, have now stopped. There is no fun and no point for them in joining GR, when they cant communicate at same level as rest of the clan.

My best guess is, that Scott is also looking at the GR-statistic tabels himself, and is pretty aware that his market isnt growing anymore. Not to an extend where advertisers are interested at least. And now he milks the market-potential by forcing heavy-users to pay.

This strategy can only be succesful in a world of monopoly. And that is exactly what is at hand.
Spare me for any more comparing this to whats happening in other industry or whatever i have seen here.

The only means to " strike back " in a market like that, is for the users to turn to legal rights and all that boring stuff.

And if i didnt stress my point of view enough : I am NOT pleased with the situation at hand.
And I have never been. I think its ok indeed to post comments like the ones i see at the above link to where you can download GR.

I am not really sure how much i like spyware in general ( i would say that i normally hate it ), but when an application starts to declare other legal applications for " illegal to use ", i think situation is out of hand.
And as said - only possible in a monopolistic market.

People of Australia - speak out ! Do you wanna help us out on this one ?

 :)

Best regards
| ! |  Flies

Well in regards to all said, and put quite well flies in summation, scott should let gr go.  I know he has threatened this, but there is no clear advantage for him to do it.  When it was free, he got ass and shits for one reason or another, when he tried to put banners for income, more crap.  Now he tried to squeeze another avenue to make something from this, and we are all opposed to it also.  I can't agree with the methods he went into enacting this, but, i still truly understand the motivation behind it. But, after reading everything here and there and the opinions of many, he can't make everyone happy including himself, and he seems to be wasting his time doing it.  I think one of the saddest things is that as "War" gamers we need a different type of communication that what is needed for other games like AOE or WOW, which are not as team and time sensitive with comms.  In that, it is our fault for relying so heavily on GR to make our War gaming possible.  We can cut the cancer that we feel GR is and go back to ip gaming and use kdx chat to set up the cb's, it is not super science.  Then we can save our premium money, use KDX happily and have more stable games without a 3rd party app.

Pull the plug to GR, either you do it or Scott does it, just depends who acts first, because both sides can't win.

Gamespy has even more ads then GameRanger does, on their so called "basic" side. You get bombarded with pop-ups when you start the application. Which isn't that lot of fun, and I people would bash it so frickin hard if Evill were supposed to do that.
Point being, people have bought so called premium versions of software and games for ever, just so they get a higher status or use a feature. But developers rely on those service, so they can continue to give you a decent software.

If people doesn't want to play through GameRanger, be my guest. Go through your so called "in-game" browsers and try to find a game through millions of servers that might not even have a single user on.
Atleast with GameRanger you can filter things out. Even with some games you can't even use a "in-game" browser, because the games rely on GameRanger.

And remember there is no one forces you to use GameRanger as a gaming service. You can try to get a cb game in Ghr or RvS in some other way, but will you be able to find a game easier? I really doubt it.

And if Evill decided to close GameRanger down forever, don't come with some fuckin excuses and start whining.

they can't really do anything about it


It was/is still free for mac users, again, he doesnt force it down peoples throats


His premium idea was to help pay for somethign that he had put so much hard work into. And rightly or wrongly however your opinion thought he might make a living from, would'nt you?

I chose to get premium, not straight away but i did, and have appreciated everything since then. and i don't even play games, i choose to support this service because i have met some of the nicest people while online, and without this service, that would not have happpend.



how about supporting someone that you have used a service from someone that has given for nothing for 'x' amount of years for nothing?


all i can say is "lol", every clan felt the same, and had the same problem, so what?, the season still went ahead, it didnt stop, and someone won it.


as fah said, you could've have chosen to play IP games, but due to the easier service that evill has supplied for so long, its easier to join through gameranger.


thats not his fault that asypr are not releasing as many games, and he doesnt get the opportunity to release games as quick as what he would want.


not pleased how?, people were caught doing something they were not supposed to be doing flies, try and convince otherwise, you think its ok because you say so?.


wtf, people speak out in general, does it matter where they are from?, i am from the UK and i get where he is coming from, they used a workaround that bypassed what he wanted. they used something that THEY KNEW WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE... and got caught.

Flies, go steal something from a shop, then bitch to the shop owner that its not fair, then bitch to the country where that shop owner comes from, see how much support you will get.

How exactly has all this affected your clan. fine you have your opinion, even discuss it, i cant stop you, even DAMN can't.

But your entire post can be ripped apart bit by bit.

ok... i have just explained this whole thing to my wife....

and i qoute


she has nothing to do with GR, she even gets pissed at me for spending time on GR. Go ask someone who has nothing to do with this gaming service at all, someone who is not biased with it, like someone who is not related to a clan member etc. please come back and post what someone who knows nothing has had to say about this.. even get them to post

JUST FOR info it was written in 2004

I just realized after playing Americas Army for the past 6 months that I am banned from GameRanger. That is fine with me, because I think gameranger sucks anyway. What is my problem with gameranger?

1 - Scott Keevil creates spyware, that steals information from the the Mac in which it is installed and reports it back to Gameranger? Information such as your name, Mac login, your computers serial number and your ethernet card number among other things.

2 - I don't like how gameranger autoupdates without my permission. It is the only Mac software I know that does this. A practice which is widely condemned by devlopers.

3 - Scott uses the information he steals without without your knowledge to permenantly ban users. Instead of just banning your IP address, he bans your ethernet card address which is reported with the spyware.

4 - To maintain a good rapport with the Software companies Scott Keevil reports the personal identity information he stole from your Mac as well as the other information you gave GR when you registered to the Software companies he writes plug-ins for. *If you (like me) value your privacy on the internet, this might upset you.

5 - Scott Keevil is a beggar, who extorts his clients to give money to support his spyware business.

6 - Gameranger itself is not much more than a glorified IRC client. The real GEM about gameranger is the Mac community that uses comes together, provides servers, community tech support etc... The guys hosting the servers are the ones we really should be donating to.

MORE FUNNNNNY OLD STUFF


GameSCOUTER

GameRanger is an internet gaming service that allows users to chat and play multiplayer games against each other. At this time, it's the only application of it's kind available on the Macintosh.

The original GameScouter was a quick and dirty RealBASIC client/server application created to chat with other GameRanger members when the GameRanger service was down. It allowed users to chat with each other in multiple chat rooms and also provide users the ability to supply his/her own IP address and as the host of a multiplayer game(a very primitive method of launching games).

When the programmer of GameRanger Scott Kevill found out what I made, he immediately banned me from his service. Confused to why I was banned, I wrote him an email explaining my position, requesting that I be lifted from the ban. He granted this to me. Upon returning to GameRanger, I met a lot of people giving me much verbal abuse, for seemingly unknown reasons. After a bit of investigating, I found that Scott Kevill started a campaign against us.etc.

Seeing the need for an alternative gaming network that encourages free speech, we decided to completely redo GameSCOUTER and build it into a service to compete with GameRanger. Many people upset with Scott's antics volunteered to help out. I completely reprogrammed the server application in C++ and designed to be run 24x7 on a UNIX machine. This new version had user accounts, which was stored in a SQL database. It also had extensive auto-chat flood protection, user-creatable chat rooms, private messages, detailed game listings, and with the help of Graham Wihlidal(a programmer who volunteered to help), we could have an automatic game launching system(without the user having to open the game and try to connect manually to an IP). It was beautiful, it was all coming together.

Of course, as soon as Scott found out about our efforts, he immediately banned me, Graham, every administrator I hired, everyone who helped beta-test our versions, and even some friends of mine who I mentioned in the original version's about box. He even added a rule to his administrators, ordering them to permanently ban users who rallied for free speech. He also prevented GameRanger users from even talking about us by making it so that every time someone mentioned the word 'gamescouter' it would automatically be changed to 'opengl'.

Eventually, I finished the server code, and it worked perfectly through my tests telnetting directly to the server and entering commands manually. I also wrote complete documentation of the server, including the protocol, how the server and client are supposed to interact with each other, what security measures were in place, etc. I also developed the website, which also integrated with the server, giving statistics like who's online, who chats the most, who plays the most games, what games are most popular, etc. It was beautiful, and it was done.

We were originally going to keep the RB client, but we ran into some large limitations and bugs which gave us the need to move to something else. Graham, having prior experience in developing GUI applications in C++ and having the skills to have an actual game launching system, was responsible for developing the client. After little progress, Graham decided that he would design it in OS X using Cocoa and Objective-C. He disappeared, to return a few months later saying that there wasn't enough Apple documentation to fix the bugs he's having with the socket code. So he proposed we move back to C++ and carbon. Then he disappears again, and decides to redo it in Cocoa. And then back again. And so forth, over and over again until everyone just becomes so disenchanted with the project as a whole. Me, being involved in a hundred other projects at the time, simply didn't have enough time to learn the Macintosh toolbox so that I could develop windows with complex controls, mac os socket code, and develop a client(not to mention that I didn't know how to write the game launching code), the project slowly died.

You guys are cute.....

1. It's not stealing if you installed it.  In a way, think of it as a donation you made by using his free service.  I am sure he thanks you for your donation.

2. It autoupdates so gr is stable, same reason you update a game to make sure everyone is using the same version of the game.  This ensures it works right.  Are you that dense?  How about you don't update it then and enjoy the empty screen that doesn't have gameranger.  Now you have the old client working just fine.

3. Good, my IP address changes about 10 times a day.  If someone deserves a ban they stay banned.

4. Hugh? have you received any direct marketing campaigns from any third party using information that may have come from gameranger?  This would be the only sole benefit from any action like this, and if he did do this, he probably wouldn't have to charge for anything, databases sell for quite a bit of cash.

5. hahahahahahahah, let me reiterate, hahahahahaha. Good one

6. The guys hosting the servers should get the donation.  Wow, great minds think alike, send the money to Gameranger, Scott pays for the servers and bandwidth.  So you just admitted you would like to donate or pay, now stfu and go ahead.

and your second post

People tried to make something that worked the same but didn't work and couldn't get it to work. This is GR's fault?  Hell, he perfected the system I guess.  Not his fault other people cannot develop the same thing. Let us guesss why.....

1. what is in it for them - posts by ghost.fr about this new service wanting something in return for what they developed as bad, oh so bad.

2. shit, this is hard work, maybe I should get paid for this?

3. This was my idea and results of hard work, let me put up with bullshit all day long for free....

So gamescouter, I thank thee for trying and for everyone else.  Go ahead and do it, but when you work hard at something and make it work right for everyone to enjoy, it is human nature to want something in return or to not lose money on it.  Just life...

I agree this article is funny. it shows through the numerous attempts to get a similar program to GR working all have failed and failed miserably. Scott is the only one who has been able to keep the "service" going. Until you ghost can produce an alternative just fark off and stop whining like a 5 year old child who has just had his favorite toy taken from him.

On the point that he tracks more than ip addresses. FFS im glad this is done ip addressess these days can be changed in quicker time than it takes to reboot a mac.

And the people of Australia have alot better things to do with there time than whine and complain about a "free" service. As far as i can remeber (correct me if im wrong) Gameranger does not come installed with osx? You installed it yourself! If you dont like it dont install it!

And seriously to take yours and your friends childish comments to another website is beyond laughable.

My focus in all this is absolutely only one point:

GameRanger should not exclude use of other applications.
That´s what I am opposing to.

I love the fact we have a place called "GameRanger".
I like the lay-out of it
- and its amazing to have this little mac-gaming cyberworld running.

Gameranger has through many years been like  "a good friend" to me.

But havent you ever had a very good friend, who at a certain point made a move that you simply couldnt live with ? And did you tell him so ?

I got nothing against Scott making money - however I have always said that it would be nice for the customers if there was at least just one more competitor.

Therefore GameRanger - and Scott - could prolly come up with other ideas to "make a living", that I wouldnt dream about commenting.

But to see a Mac-based application getting away with bizz-moves
that even Microsoft couldnt get away with....that saddens me.

Best regards
| ! |  Flies

think that just about sums how i feel flies, and for the last time its not becasue im suing a free app etc etc, i pay for this, i just don't agree with the business practise of physically preventing people from using competing products when u add features that they allready offer.

you guys are rediculous ..

CONFORM TO KEVILL OR DIE !!

I think it’s very obvious that those guys who defend Gameranger so blindly are the ones who would die if Gameranger was not here anymore. Those guys who would have to spend time with their wives, boyfriends,dogs or whatever if Gameranger was not here. Those guys who refuse to even try to see anything wrong.

Flame away.  ::applause::

1. How can it create spyware? The only thing the application does is, is to check your hard drive for games that is compatible with GameRanger, nothing else nothing more. As for name, it doesn't you have the option to write in your name in your profile if you want too. But does it send you ALL of your account information, no it doesn't. And what would Evill have the use for it anyway? It's not like hes going to call your bank and withdraw all your money.

2. Like Fah said, its nessasary to be able to use the service. Its like AA, you can't play with the official servers just because you don't have the latest version of the game.

3. Just because he bans your MAC(ethernet) adress doens't mean its spyware, almost every application you use with an internet connection to a service, mostly a service for example IRC.
IRC is a good example, if you want spyware then IRC is your choice, it sends the username of your computer, MAC adress, hostname and IP. What else do you want? it can even ping your host, and hack it if you want. And he bans the MAC adress so that people who might be on the same IP doesn't fucked over, in most cases.

4. What have you gotten this shitty information from? Did you come up with it yourself, the plug-ins have nothing to do with infomation which is sent to game companies. Almost the only thing he does send to them are questions and statistics of the game.

5. Yes, he begs for money, so he can use his spyware for world domination! (Where do you get all of this spyware crap from?)

6. If you think it's a glorified IRC app, then over till one. You think it has the same functions as an IRC client go over till one.

You just pointed yourself out to a moron, just because we defend something so blindly doesn't mean we have a personal life when we aren't using GameRanger. Most of us has school or what ever to do.
I can see you on most of the time on GameRanger, so... Stop whining, if you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion then don't.

magnetic i wouldnt say it better !!!!
nice one !!!!

ola ethion don t flame me!! i'm just discussing here !!!

this is where it come from : http://www.macgamer.com/wcgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=005669

Atleast put a source before you write something like that, the guys is stupid enough to believie that is true. And I don't have an intention to flame you, i'm just telling you how it's supposed to be. And Macgamers users has been known to be total morons, so goes for the website.

And could anyone say why the GR stas when down since premium came out ???!!!!

http://www.gameranger.com/stats/

plus i have nothing against premium its all about freedom of choice and business ethics!!!

i paid since it came out cause i have the money to pay but some guys dont and they should choose to use any other free app to chat (ichat) during games or pay for KDX or NF instade of GR just cause KDX gives more than just voice.
All that as been said millions of time no need to repeat

but i will bring more info and reply to the people we talked too

ps: ethion i dont see ur sources !!?? ;-)

Did I touch your weak spot?  ::applause::

Yes, I don't have a life, that's why I am on this forum 24/7.

I know, but thanks for saying it.

thanks Flies, you got it  ::bussi::

and what one could learn from this thread? a few things:

1. GameRanger has a monopol in its service
2. one could be excluded permanently without any reason
3. the GameRanger application has partially unwanted behaviours, in certain countries maybe called illegal  

but now comes the most important part:

4. the basic service is completely free
5. this service has several very powerful and convenient features
6. this service has been improved continually since the beginning 5 years ago
7. there are no bugging advertisings
8. there is no evidence of abusing unwanted gathered information of users

this means:

9. only paying premium users have the right to complain about this service

and results in:

10. use the service and try to improve it (with constructive contributions to the developers) or don't use the service


take this for the 10 commandments of GameRanger. thank you.

1. Evill, yes you can apparently learn from that guy. Amazing isn't it?

2. Common sense

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware

Want more?

heh, sniping at people now?, the difference in this whole thread mag, is that people were doing something they should'nt have been. They knew it.

Defending something you like is no biggie, and yes, i would be a bit lost for time on a nightime if GR were to go, just as much as if my wife's favourite TV show's were taken of air, she would miss them.

We all user GameRanger either when we are bored, or when we are going to play a game.
That's the point. Then it's to up to person what to do with their lifes.

The difference in this thread is that one side talks about the fact that some guys did something that was illegal (which it was, and I don’t think anyone disagrees), the other side however is NOT talking about that fact. That side is talking about the fact that this "rule" is to be questioned. So we are kinda speaking about two different subjects imo.

You're half right, it's still about the same subject, premium/voice and Evill.
Aka GameRanger in general,

eh?, so now its a debate on something that was debated over two years ago?, and people are getting all pissy again?, talk about a broken record.

Maybe i am not fully understanding your point

Yes it’s the same debate, broken or not. Evill just revived it.

He might have banned them from the service, but it's more the users who revived the issue again.
Evill is just a keyfactor.

Wasn’t that exactly what I said?

Evill is the keyfactor = he revived it.
Of course it’s the users who are debating, since Evill apparently doesn’t want to take part.

haha, who revived it?, so you are now blaming evill for people using a workaround to bypass his service?

No, he isn't the keyfactor in the matter, is an keyfactor. The users who used the workaround int he beginning of the game is the keyfactor, they made him ban them for his reason.

He knows what is happening allright, but he maybe doesn't want to take part in this discussion on this forum. Evill comments on it in the command and bunker chat, it might not be a lot. But he does comment on this.

If you want the to talk about what you refer to as the facts then please show me in "Australian Laws" showing references to these laws of what Evill is doing that is illegal. If you can not do this then you have "NO" arguement and everything you have argued is factless and baseless. And please show me facts and not speculaton that GR is spyware.

Awaiting your response....

You lost me. Good job. I will keep quiet now.

No i think everyone has had enough, this isn't going anywhere, some of us will continue to be unhappy with Evills actions, others will not. As Mauti pointed out before, nobodies going to change anyone else's view, and this is becoming a seriously hot flame topic.

i don't want to lock this but cool it down, if things don't inprove a bit then discussion closed.

Rgr that honey.  ;)

No i dont want more but if u need sources each time there is a quote, this is going to be boring!!!!



We are not bypassing is service just correcting a bug in his service !!!


- merged posts

The thing is, you didn't really quote it correctly. That's why it got messed up.

anyone knows why "ONLYMORTAL" stoped his development would be nice to use it again or develope it with DAMN, i would pay for a gameranger look a like that take care of clans managment and ladders and stats and i would use my own voice app !!! i'll pay 15/20 $ a year for it and maybe 5$ to register a clan (once)
maybe 5$ to register a season!!! maybe ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/only_mortal/

You know that the application only supports Quake and UT engines?

This information was found at http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/259608/fromItemId/6106  which is a site by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. It discusses ant-competitive conduct and restrictive trade practices that I think this whole situation might fall into.



Ein

Anyone who keeps any personal information that they worry about keeping private on their home computer is an idiot.

agreed.... oh shoot, let me delete my social security number file right now. :)

Too late.. muhaha.

Scott.

waoooo the man is in the house !!!!

man u need a better marketing plan and better business ethics !!!

thats the main point of view

it will only do good to u if u get a better way to get customers !!!

Damn, knew i shoulda done that before I posted in this thread. hehe

Ein

so Scott... can I not yell at Casey (my roommate) in the other room anymore (cause he doesnt have prem) when theres an enemy on map? Oh and I guess i have to turn off my cell phone .. sorry :)

you can yell all you want to whoever is in the room, or you can try to yell to your clanmates but i doubt they will hear you. :)  But as long as they arent premium, you cant use NF or KDX to yell across those long distances. You would have to use your cell phone and face those huge international rate charges after the CB. was it worth placing that call?

Ein

It's really hard for me to believe that KDX and NF are the ONLY voice apps out there for the Macintosh computer...

That was my point from a few pages ago.... there are other voice apps... why arent they banned? and if they arent banned? then why complain about 1 or 2 programs being banned when you can use others. Some already mentioned were skype and ichat. Dont want to mention anymore, just in case those end up getting banned in the near future. lol ( i guess it dont matter to me cause im a premi)

Ein

Ask to the creator of GR, why NF and not iChat, because....

Apple ----> ::domina:: <---- Creator of GR

Ventrillo was meant to be coming to the mac...

anyway, isn't it time this thread died now please?

no bfg its my thread !!!!! lol please close it but watch ur mail i have send u some infos

No, it has NOTHING to do with the company. As I replied to BFG before:

Yeah, whip him Apple, whip him!

You're such a tard, maybe it's you who should leave GameRanger for good?

----

The funny thing is, KDX and NF is shareware, so thats even more ironic.

what he said

Apple should do a software update that blocks GR from working on OSX...  But once you pay the $50 GR online gaming activation fee to Apple, GR will magically work and everyone will be happy... 

Now bend over and spread your butt cheeks...

Thank-you for digging that up Kitkat and adding some valuable input ;) . On which note topic is now locked.