*DAMN R6 Forum

Would it not be considered cheating to purposly exit a cb mid round to allow a more experienced member of the clan to take ur place...?

i.e. I die...leen exits...I take his place.

Just wanted to clear that one up.

nark?

I've seen this tactic used by one clan in particular, and if it's not cheating  then it's gotta be something close.

I understand if a player crashes or whatever, but there is a clan i know that does it pretty steadily.

Whoever it is definately does not deserve anything they might have won in the last few seasons...

That's a no-brainer for me.  Mos Def a cheat.  What clan are you guys talking about?  Let's have it in the open.

hi nark, for your note.. Tin didnt leave, he crashed. as you saw he joined emmediatly after.

He chooses his timing very well in all accounts.

nark?

I crashed before the game even started … ::)

Well this wasnt actually aimed at getting u guys banned or anything i just wanted it cleared up...is it a cheat.

nark?

i really hope this is not aimed at z][t, as far as i've followed the thread, because in all of our CBs each season we maybe had to sub 2-3 times (as you can see in our CB infos on the BL site). mostly for a less experienced member.

anyway, why would it be considered a cheat if one player doesn't feel good or whatever in a CB and wants to get subbed by another member of his clan? what's the problem with that? i totally don't understand why that'd be cheating.

i've seen it happen against us in each season at least 5 times, why should we care if the opponent substitutes for a better player? it's normal in every sports league, for whatever reasons.

I was unaware the sub rule applied in game. Existing player is subbed for existing player...you can call it a substitute if the player wasn't already playing...in my eyes its called switching...from being dead to being alive.

nark?

p.s. By your view that would mean for instance that Tierry Henry could take all 5 penaltys in a penalty shoot out?

now i don't get at all what you're talking about. do you mean "crashing" on purpose in a CB while a member of your team already died so he can take your bot?! wtf

Bingo.

nark?

If a player crashes I would expect them to at least go back into the game and give a heads up for the sub...

i played in 99% of our CBs over all the seasons so far and that never happened. i don't know about the CBs in this "pre-season", because i personally prefer to wait for the real deal, but since Tin said that he left before the round and not while it was running i don't see the problem. i doubt it anyway that they'd do such an action regularly and on purpose. otherwise rampage, magnetic or me would kick their asses because we want to keep our clan clean, nice and fair, and don't play with backdoor tactics.

sounds kind of stupid and obvious anyway to "crash" and let a dead player take your place (bot) several times. i'd rather try my best instead of letting somebody else take my spot for a single round and then join back in after. bah

He Didn't Leave, he crashed. as i did 1 game before. and you know that, we had timeouts on your server. but sure nark, we can re-do it. it's a fucking cqb, nothing to whine over or accusing of cheating. No biggie, we are here to have fun.


but he really, crashed b4 the game started and joined back when the "Rifleman Has elimiated-Leen.?" and then i toke you. The Rifleman was just there..

Alright, this did happen once, or even twice in the spring tourny. I belive it was our game against [:] - you guys might remember the problems i had with my AirPort.

I'm on a wireless connection through AirPort, and it was about an hour before the CB when i started having problems with my connection - the signal was going on and off. This being my first CB, i was rather pissed.

In the game i had biiig problems and we even had to switch host from mine to one of the [:] guys. And what happened was i crashed in a game on Vilnius, and when Neo or Stripes died, they took my Rifleman.

I'm quite convinced the [:] guys understand that this was definitely not intended. My connection definitely caused us more difficulties than an advantage.


ALSO, since dead people cant take bots, i really dont see the point of someone "crashing" in for example a 2v1 situation, on the team with 2 people. I'd say its much more of an advantage to play 2v1 than 1v1 with the other guy having an extra respawn.

civ - he didnt mean subbing, he meant taking bots.

Dead people can take bots...

nark?

p.s. it was tank and Civic took your place.

I don't know about you guys on here, but you really have trouble reading what I say.

1. I'm not accusing anyone of cheating.

2. I simply wanted a clear answer on this matter, not a full on discussion.

I'm not bothered about the cqb it was ggs all around.

nark?

yeah, but it takes a while to be possible. on tank back then, he was running against a wall for a few minutes before he timed out and the game exited him. if he wouldnt have crashed we wouldve been 2v1, so it makes no sense to crash on purpose. then i died and could take the rifleman luckily, to die again a few seconds later... :P

i mean dead as in dead when i crash. only people that die after someone exits can take the bot.

meaning, if lets say our best player dies, i cant "crash" so that he could take my Rifleman.

Bingo.

That's very easy to say.

Stripes, we aren't making a big fuss over this but it's more of us clearing up the rules.

Tin left in the middle of the game being the last one left.. we had him on sensor and were just about to kill him when you respawned, killed me and nade spammed nark to hell.

I, personally, don't think that is a fair move by any means because it just makes you more able to kill us after possibly seeing us moving around near your dead body, etc.

Weakspot please let me know what your geniune problem is, because this accusation is just a bunch of horseshit. We are not or have never felt the need to be bad sportsmen. I think I have seen a maximum of 4 crashes in my 400 cbs, so don’t tell me that we do it deliberately please.

Next time you feel stepped on, I suggest you ask for a replay of the round in stead of trying to make us look like cheaters in the forums. Thank you.

z][t-Magnetic

Is this a genuine thread asking what the BL stance on this issue is or is it a not so subtle complaint at a particular clan, or can someone please clearly state what the question/ problem is if they want a clear answer because to be honest i can't follow what is going on.

But for the record - there is no rule against nor should it be looked badly apon when a player substitutes or is substituted in a cb for whatever reason - either to bring in a more experienced player to help win the remaining rounds, a less experienced player to play some cb rounds, or to simply allow someone who has to be else where to go.

The intentional 'pretend' crashing of a player to force the restart of a round and thus then force an immediate substitute of a player is another matter, but im unclear if this is what is being suggested?

How does one determine a real crash from a "pretend" crash.

This is a pretty clear problem that he's suggesting I think...

For example:

z][t is playing [.?] on Ghost Town.  Magnetic, Civic, and Tin are up against Nark, Leen, and Dark.  Magnetic charges out and kills Nark and wounds Leen before being killed by Leen in the crossfire.  Civic and Tin are left to face a wounded Leen and Dark.

Let's just say Tin is the player with the least amount of skill on this particualr map (note: I have no idea if this is true just making an example...).  He leaves GHR to simulate a crash and A Rifleman is left.  Magnetic clicks his mouse and takes the bot who is still alive left by Tin.  They, because of Mag's multi-season experience in cb's, go on to kill Leen and Dark.

That is clearly a cheat.  If Tin crashed legitimately then, although is unfortunate for [.?], is not illegal.

I'd say if it happens once it's cool, twice it warrents a discussion such as this, three times I'd call it a cheat.

This is NOT to be aimed at z][t in anyway, could be any clan.  I'm sure this has been done before and now that the issue has been raised peeps will be on the lookout for it...

Vick

I believe it would be a fair compromise to set up a system where each clan agrees on substitution players in the case of a crash, much like hosting agreements. That may solve the problem.

that's not possible tho, Vick, because only players that died AFTER another teammember exited can take the bot.

Or Tin and Civic both crash right off the bat and Mags gets 3 lives...  Hahaha!  That would be truly scary!  I'd drop my gun and beg for mercy.

It's cool though, I see your point.

But if what I described COULD be done then it would definitely be cheating.

pfft, Magnetic sucks.

This is why I dont understand most of the DBL's rules. The rule should read.

"If a player crashes, that team plays the rest of the round one man short. After the round there should be a "setup" round and allow for him to rejoin and lag test again."

Very simple and eliminate alot of BS that could arise.

voo

p.s. If you have nothing constructive to add dont post at all. You will earn yourself a warning quickly with spike on the prowl. ;)

nah ill just delete em and then cackle at my computer.

Alright.
1) Spike Please dont delete my needed post, i was pointing out that -?leen is lying, and every Ghr player knows that, you don't cause i bet you don't know the GhR CQb Rules. but in CQB you can't take sensors, leen is saying i was on their sensor? how could i be on their sensor when sensors isnt allowed?

2) this is no flame, but im really curious. and i'm having a good point, in my view so deleting it won't work out.

3) sure it was gg's, but bullshit comin in here thinking we do such shit on purpose. but that's fine, we didnt break any rules as so if we did i wouldn't be here complaining and using your admins time.

no one said you broke any rules, your post looked off topic to me, but maybe it wasn't. i thought your post was the one that voo was referring to when he warned about off topic responses.

it's all cool, you two couldn't know. but it's actually pretty important  ;)

hold up, ill qoute your post

if you havnt figured out what i ment, then ill tell you more detailed. 

? and z][t played a cqb, and in a cqb battle there is no sensors/by the rules.

so how come they had me on sensor  :-X

Nark. lets end this simply.

yes you can sub a player during a cb. clans have done it against us for many seasons and we have the other way around. wether the player is more experenced doesnt matter in my book. bring'em on. as for Tin "purposely" crashing is not even worth answering and i dont think u are acusing him of that.

so..yes you can sub a player and it doesnt matter how good he is....unless rules have changed and i have missed it.

z][t - guys, leave this topic plz. Nar, if you have any questions, send me a pm.

thanx

I dont know if this was actually directed toward Nark or myself.  The only clan I have ever seen do this is z][t.  I have never been in a cb and had this happen to any other clan at all.  I dont know if its done purposely or not.  im with nark, i would like the rule cleared up.

You know how to make a workload when i finish my shift...

@Stripes: I think what Leen meant was you were on map, I saw you on map for about 5 seconds before you encountered leen. (Hence the sensor mix up, but I am only presuming from what I've seen leen say).

@Rampage: Dude, we're not talking normal substitution in between rounds, we're talking about taking the spot of a inexperienced player by a previously dead pro during a round.

@z][t: This was in no way directed at you guys, I did post quite early in saying that. It was more to keep you out of the discussion so you weren't brought up. The thread was simply created to clear the situation up, it isn't really as straight forward as you think especially when you get various different opinions either for or against.

I actually wanted an official ruling on this, because its not clear in the rules. [DURING GAME i.e. ppl are dieing]Should the clan that looses the player not play the rest of the round a man down, instead of a dead player taking his place?

So you guys as admins have a choice, make this a viable subsitution method, or clarify the rules to cover this situation.

nark?

What Vick described earlier is possible....If Magnetic died, he can stay on his body (without clicking the mouse) until Tin exits.  Then when mag clicks his mouse, he will take over the bot. It only works if you stay on your dead body the whole time (not observing the other guys still alive).

Im not saying this is what happened...to be honest, i think its rediculus that this is even a thread.

edit:  in my opinion..this is less than a rare occurance...i don't think i've seen anyone crash in the last 50 cb's i've played in.  If for some reason a player crashes in-game, then they shouldn't have to play a man down...someone that is still alive should be able to take over the bot.  The opposing team shouldn't try to take advantage of a team because they are having net problems.

Again, this is such a rare occurance, i really don't think the rules should be changed to prevent people from taking over bots.

50 cbs without crashing once, not once...thats a maximum of 400 rounds of loading/playing, average cb lasts 2 hours IF it every round went the entire distance that means it would have been 100 hours of playing time without a crash from up to eight people. Wow.

nark?

give me a break dude...im trying to make a point.  I didnt whip out my calculator.

I couldnt agree more with twist.  Extremely rare occurance...  If you do it on purpose ofcourse it is cheating...  if you dont, then no biggie...

And if we really want to talk about cheating here shouldnt we be talking about a few members of Gz?  I can recall at least one of them openly bragging about his cheating....  And hearing something about this from just about everybody I play with regularly

coincidently Musk_Melon? i heard about that too... he left Gz a few hours ago and joined GhRa right away.

ok this is bs!
Can any of you prove that i (or gz for that matter) cheat? I didn't think so.
Please stop spreading propaganda around,and kitkat has always been pissed at me cuz i own him! ::lol::
well maybe not,but anyway untill there is some proof(that you can show me to,cuz i am lost with the whole cheating thing)plzz just shut up!

btw. civic i left gz cuz it is done, and ghra has wanted me for sometime.

Musk_Melon

stripes i meant to say that you were on map.. sorry for the misunderstanding

seriously though, its not the biggest deal in the world and i dont quite care about this thing. with most of you guys, i agree that it is a rare occurance and rules dont need to be tampered with to change this.

..sorry for the double post but for some reason it wont let me edit my last.

again, i have no problem with this really...
i dont think z][t, or any clan for that matter, would have the need to cheat on a little CQB that wasnt even official. i have no problem with the z][t guys and im sorry if any of you got offended during this whole thing.
the whole issue has gone WAY too far overboard for all i know and hope everyone settles down.

-leen

first Weakspot.(now that im awake) i totally understand Mags response to your post. its bait and if read between the lines, you are actually pretty much calling us "pretty close to cheaters"(using your words) and if this was intended to be a post to clear up a genuine problem that could help in situations and misshaps like this - you should have stayed clear of it. Nark/Leen where doing fine by themselves. u just added some spice to it.  and if this "clan that does it steadily" is not z][t, i suggest you clear that up. because the only thing you have done here, is drag the legitimate issue that a clan brought up - into a fight between two clans. well done

Narauko, u have brought up a genuine problem and i wish we didnt go for weaks bait. it is a problem and we all know it can happen. not often but it does. ofc a sollution would be to end that round right away and restart it. if it is a problem. but on the other hand, i dont really care who i play against in a cb. Also switching players like that would not be healthy for a clan or a new player. because we are pretty much telling him that his skills arent up to par and that one of our rocking good players should take over. this would cause inbalance in our clan and thats not the way it works. if a player feels that he sucks before, during a cb - he should be the first to suggest being subbed. in my book, this goes for most clans.
coming back to your question - perhaps there should be a rule that the clan who has had a player crash, tells the oposing clan and the choice is either - restart the round or allow the sub, whoever it is. on the other hand, this has been such a rare situation through the seasons. either way is fine with us.

Leen/Nark, its all settled down and its all good in the hood. yes Nark you did say so"@z][t: This was in no way directed at you guys, I did post quite early in saying that", but when someone (in this case Weak) adds hints of us of "pretty close to cheating", its hard to stay focused on what one/two people in are trying to get to while the 3rd is baiting. it is understandable that people react. so would you.

if crashing is a big enough problem, lets let the admins will look at it and work out the best ruling on it.

Thanx

I know for a fact that Weak cheats big time.

Please do not delete. This is not intended in any way to be spam.


Just wanted to point out that this was the first time z][t was mentioned in this thread and it was by their own member. At no time before that did anyone even mention any specific players or clans besides nark mentioning himself and leen in a hypothetical situation to explain his question. I do not see why everyone is taking so much offence to this simple question.

As twist mentioned, it is possible to wait and spawn once a teammate leaves either by crashing or by force quitting gameranger so this makes it more of a problem.  Now the question is, how do we know that any crash is legitimate? As others have stated, they have thought about this action having been done against there clan in the past which means that crashing is not as infrequent as twist has said. Personally I have been in several cb's where players have crashed however none of those CBs resulted in someone else spawning into the bot.

If this was not a problem before, because of this thread and spreading the knowledge of a way around the system, this could possibly be a problem in the future.

Several clans use their own voice programs to communicate so how would it be possible for us to know if one clan member said "I'll force quit so you can take my body since you died." However, we all know that this could possibly happen weather it does already or not.

Would the admins look into this as a possibility for clans to cheat? Since this is the preseason, would it not make sense to fix bugs or posible way to cheat in the system before the season starts and you can not alter the rules?

Ein

any clan that has someone mention or even whisper  that they might cheat, will react. and yes i agree, Narks post and using z][t as a hypothetical clan is also fine. but with weaks bate and Narks post a couple of posts after stripes post(he he) can and will surely only poor fuel on the fire.
its not hypothetical anymore when the clan that has not been mentioned (in earlier posts)is actually brought up as reply by Nark. any clan will react to that and with good reason. if we decide to reply to that or defend it, is entirely up to us.

on the topic of making a new rule or looking into purposely quitting. i am not against it, but i dont see much reason for it. we'll play any clan and any member the same. there is no Michael Jordan of ghost recon. if there is, he should get a pc and play for money! again, if this is a strategy that clans would use, it would be a very very unhealthy plan for a clan. that means that there is a quality difference between players and some players will feel less than others. oh i'll die because "happyjack" is better than me, or even worse, "happyjack" tells noob that he needs to "crash" so that he can take over because he is better. i dont see the logic in a move like this. but if a clan does it everytime that one player, or the "lesser" players end up last against 2 or more ppl, or even in an even situation, it should be dealt with. it is ofc a time consuming problem for the cb, and a very destructive way to run a clan.

the gentleman way to handle it, would be to tell the oposing clan.

in the years we have played ghr, this has not been an issue. i believe it is because it happens rarely and most people really dont care who they face on the battlefield. we dont.

thanx

The way that I understand the dbl rules for a cb is tat there is 0 spawns. Taking over a bot after you die is like getting a spawn. Right? If not then what would it be considered?
---myth

i restate my postion

the only clan i have ever seen do this is z][t.  i say they have done it steadily because it has happened 3 times that i can recall.  did i call it cheating?  no.  i too want this cleared up, as far as rules go.  i dont know why it has only happened with you guys.  perhaps its just sheer coincidence.  could be.  might be.

all facts.  no bait.  no need to read between the lines.

if you dont like what i have to say, oh well.

thanks for spending a good amount of your time responding to my post.  nice to know you care.

oh, and stfu  :D

youre right Myth. thay pretty much sums it up. it would ofc be a spawn. but if there is a 1v2 situation and the 1 crashes...there should be a gentlemans rule on what to do. i'd suggest telling the other clan and dealing with it from there. since it is a technical problem, that round should be restarted.

thanx

I'm happy with that. Restart.


nark?

I can see where restarting could be a problem though...if there was a rule saying this was the solution if anyone crashes.  If a clan has a big advantage (having wz locked down, etc) and then all the sudden the other clan has a player crash...I wouldnt want to restart if i were the team that had the advantage...no one would.

I mean its going to be obvious if a player that died 2 minutes earlier takes over someone's bot...I say if a player has been dead more than 15 seconds, he can't take over a bot.  If he does, then their team loses that round.  The issue will obviously be brought up right after the round anyways....save the replay, and go from there.

Im just rambling, but it'd be a solution that would prevent people from using this 'tactic'.

The problem with that Rampage... in a 1v2 situation the guy by himself could just as easliy just quit and rejoin for a restart, you never know when somebody actually crashes.

I don't agree with that, if you're afraid you might crash I would suggest not playing if you believe it's going to effect the outcome of the cb.

I think it would cause much MORE problems if it was ruled that after a crash the round would be restarted. What do you do when you're raping the other team 4v1 and you have the wz. And the single opponent "crashes"? I'm sure no one's gonna want want to restart on the winning team, and i can already see maaany threads where situations like this will be argued.


How about this for a solution?

Players that have died before the crash are not allowed to take over the bot. Which means, if there is a 2v1 situation [Player #1 & Player #2 VS. Player #3], and lets say Player #1 crashes. The remaining situation will be Player #2 VS. Player #3, but Player #2 will have a respawn. I know this might sort of contradict a rule, but its maybe the most reasonable solution to this situation.

- The only one who is allowed to take over the bot is Player #2, when he dies. If someone else on the team (by having stayed at their body) takes over the bot, that team automatically loses the round - because they have died BEFORE the crash.
- If i were Player #3, i'd actually be happy if this crash happened. It's always easier to play against one person who has a respawn, than against two players who can corner you and attack simultaneously.

This could maybe be a rule, although i dont trying to cheat by crashing is at all an effective way to play as a team. If this were to be an official rule, there would really be no point in faking a crash, because it really is easier to play with two people than with 1, even if one of the two is slightly less skilled.

Hope you understand my points.

We really need to find a new game.

I would have thought this situation would be very obvious. If there has been a crash and then a player is given the chance to re-spawn in the crashed players place it is going to be very obvious to the opposing team, as you will in effect have an extra guy playing! 

As far as *DAMN and the BL is concerned, the current rules cover the issue of a player crashing. I have never in all my cb's seen this 'extra re-spawn situation' take place, but then again crashes are normally few and far between in cb's in my view.

If the general consensus is that you guys want a modification of the rules to cover this issue then we can look into that but all id say is i think we need to be carful not to overburden the all-ready weighty rule book. 

As far as im aware in a round if a alive player crash's and the other members of his/her team are killed - and one player of that team is given the opportunity to use that re-spawn then it is going to be very obvious if suddenly there is an extra guy left when the team should be dead! Simply said, no i do not believe this is allowed, and it will be very clear if a clan does use this. Id suggest if you do re-spawn to tell very one straightaway and the round can be ended by the server admin.  I can of course double check this with the others and see if we can give you a clearer and more comprehensive statement on this, i'm afraid i'm rambling!

Thank you Krush and Primary...for repeating basically exactly what i said.


You guys need to play some Soldier of Fortune 2 w/ me.. That game is 10x better than GhR, and about 100x better than RvS (in my opinion, dont flame me).  People give up on it so easily (like bonfire) bc they're used to kicking ass...then when they play this, they can barely get a kill.   

why dont my quotes work?  when i click insert quote, its just blank.

- fixed your quotes ;)

replace the <'s and >'s with ['s and ]'s, then the quote will work. BBCode.

about games... we finally need BF1942 and/or FtF on GameRanger. i cant stand playing with these PC kids and/or assholes on the in-game servers. and i can't wait for GhR3 for mac!

SoF2 better than GhR? .... Mewagh (wtf was that, what on earth is 'mewagh'? ) kinda depends what you like in a game dosn't it...

Boot up FtF or RvS (Ive had such fun playing RvS recently, makes such a difference when there is a good server hosting regually!)

and civic, don't count on it, you know what will probably happen to a mac port ;)

and what? i dont care if it comes a bit later... it's good enough for now to know that it WILL come for mac. :)

U know something i don't?

I just tend to ignore you

Roger that, Civic.... I thought someone had mentioned that Evill was making FtF available via GR.... That game runs smooth even on low end systems and would be a big hit, IMO.

If only we could get some way to mod it or if there were some more maps.

i heard they were going to bring an official mappack for FtF, didnt visit the FtF forums since a while tho, so i dunno what's going on there.

do de do, on topic and all that

FTF is probably the worst waste of money I have had. The field of view sucks and the patch they just came out with didnt fix shit. Coop is fun for maybe the first hour played but just gets repetative.

Anyone looking for the PC version? $5 bucks??? anyone? anyone?

voo

On our last cb vs. animals, during the first map (Tower), we had killed 3/4 of their team and their last player crashed a few seconds before we all were going to gang bang her. No one took over the bot in this situation.

As a curtosy, we agreed to re-play the map. Never in our minds would it cross that the crash was intentional.... FYI, we lost the replayed map, and it came back to hunt us hence we lost that particular CB 5-3.

We weren't really sure what the rules were for this situation, but we knew we were playing against a great group of friends which we don't doubt, so the replay was in order.

Moral of the story: Crashes do happen, even in what may seem as the most wierdest circumstances or momments- in the end, you just have to trust (hope) that it is not intentinal !

Again I will say, DAMN should use the same rule TWL does.


Tirofino, thats messed up. You guys should have won that round.

voo

I was not a part of the cb tiro is referring to but it seems they replayed it because the bot was about to pwn them all and take the wz too.   ;D ;D ;D

   ::lol::  Rooooo

Maybe in a Main Season cb, we would have... but we r just having lots of fun now  - plus animals are great friends !!!!

*** hugz me fino **   ::bussi::