*DAMN R6 Forum

This is just an opinion and thought to make the Ghost Recon Team ladder more fun and attractive for clans to play next season.

 1.) Use the Advanced Ladder System next season and ditch the Elo Point System.  (Under the Elo Point System clans that lose a CB suffer for a loss, digging themselves in holes and having to play another CB just to regain the points they lost.)  The points your clan gains in the Elo System are a mystery and its difficult to determine what amount of points your gaining or losing in a CB.  Clans that have losing records under the Elo System lose interest in playing a CB since they have nothing to play for.  Under the Advanced System clans don't suffer for a CB loss and aren't hurting themselves by losing, except for losing ground on the clan that won.

 2.) Reduce Clan Battles to 1st to win 3 games instead of 5.  With shortened clan battles more CB's can be played in a single day giving clans with not alot of time to CB more chances to CB in a single day.  CB activity would skyrocket.

 3.) Ditch Warzone as the primary gametype and use Double Assasination, War or Double Seige for Clan Battles. 
   -Double Assasination could bring more fun to clan battles and it is a true test of skill and teamwork for clans.  Each clan having to protect its own general while having to kill the opposing clans general. 
   -War with "infinite spawns" takes full advantage of the 10 Mins, each clan must kill to gain points and lose points for dying.  This enables every member of the CB to participate for the full 10 mins. 
  -Double Seige makes both clans play offense and defense and could make CB's more fun and interesting.
  -I don't know about anyone else but playing one of these gametypes for Clan Battles would be alot more fun to me and would enable the newer clans to the DBL league to be able to put up a better fight.  I know some people would enjoy continuing with Warzone because they like it or they know the spawn locations real well and its easy for them to bully around noob clans in a CB.  I think the problem with "Warzone" is alot of maps are plagued with bad spawn locations and most games turn into races for who can make it to the Warzone 1st.  Also people are getting sick of playing this mode and a change might help.

Thanks for the Input Punisher. Just a few quick questions:

With Double Assassination is the 'general' picked randomly (ie like nromal assasination) and do u not think this would lead to some pretty heavy 'camp and guard' games?

Regarding 'War' - any suggestions on how to combat likely spawn fests - first team to dominate their oppolents spawns can then just sit back and pick them off as they spawn and thus win ( i can just imagine the complaints now! ;) )

Double siege is an interesting one, we used to have a siege ladder (im a big fan of the game mode) but it really wasn't played much. however a double siege might solve this - but we would have to address spawn / siege locations etc to ensure even rounds etc.

would be interested to see what everyone else's views are on reducing the rounds from 5 to 3.

cheers

BFG

Regarding Double Assasination, the general is picked randomly although I think it might be possible someone could rescript it so if your clan member was sitting in the "Alpha" slot they would be general for that game.  Or there could be a "General Kit Restriction" this would add a "General" in addition to the "Rifleman", "Demolitions" etc.  It would then have to be programmed that whoever takes "General" is the general for that game.  Yea I agree this could be a camp heavy gametype, alot of ties might occur but shortening a CB length to 1st to 3 wins might help this, and if you want to win your gona have to go on the offensive and kill the enemy general anyway.

I think the best way to combat spawn kill fests in "War" is to kill the guy doing the spawn killing and send him back to his spawn.  Also you could make the spawn invulnerable time 5 or 10 secs.  Since your not defending a zone in this gametype its most likely your clan would be spread all over the map anyway.

I think there already is a "Double Seige" gametype that exists I played it on someones server once. :)

Indeed / or perhaps a double domination i cannot remember but i've played it - and they were certainly fast and action packed games (although we're talking 12v12 players aprox)

Double Siege is also called Command and Conquer.

yea, I've been hosting Command and Conquer on my server lately... I think it's a fun gametype, but the reason I lean toward warzone is it forces clans to move no matter what, a lot of strategy is involved in taking/protecting the warzone or attacking a warzone being protected by another team.

And not to be negetive, but I would be against using the GhR Adv scoring system due to the fact that basically whoever wins the most cbs will win the season... you could have 20 wins and 80 losses and you'll still beat the team below you that has 19 wins and 0 losses.  I don't think the season title should potentially be based solely on activity over skill.

I could agree to changing to best of 5... I think the *DBL should encourage smaller cbs for more activity.  But with that I believe you should still give the clans a choice of playing the current system or best of 5.

And lastly, I think we should get rid of the "you can only cb a clan a maximum of 3 times in a row" rule and I guess we can hope clans don't abuse it... or at least make it 5 or something, cO has the chance to cb =US= just about every night and I've seen many other clans violate the current rule (including cO).  I think with the amount of inactive clans we have we should encourage cbing as much as possible.  I would hope most of the active clans right now wouldn't abuse this and take advantage of clans with less skill...  I know why this rule was put in place, and it was for good reasons at the time, but with the recent drop in activity I don't think this rule is as necessary.

to answer the question about Assasination.. in random based team play the gen is randomly picked... but thats no the case in a cb.. the teams are not random.. the one who has the most votes would be general.

Just for information: The GhR Advanced ladder is limited to 2cbs versus the same clan overall - so you can't get away with just playing tons of cbs. If 10 clans participate = 9 opponents per clan = 18 cbs maximum can be played per season.

the war-gametype really sounds fun. i imagine hillarious scores:) but 5 mins per game should be neough

the double siege is great, but can someone mod it so that you cannot tell where the WZ's are located on the command map?

I hope the normal ghr team ladder is staying with the standard wz as the primary gametype

I sitll think that GhR is just DEAD.

the ONLY things that will breathe life into it are....

1.  new, smaller, dedicated clans.... i dont see it happening

2.  new game types... i talked to Monoman about creating a double siege where the the bases arent visible on the command map.  I also talked about a game type that was double siege plus warzone... you could win by taking the wz for 3 mins or taking their base for 3 seconds.  Maybe someone smarter than me can think of something else SPECIFICALLY for cb'ing.

3.  new weapons.  the mortar changes games so much because of its long range and the fact that you can shoot it over buildings.  Im thinking specifically like in stronghold or embassy where the WZ can be taken and 'camped' inside.  The mortar can arc shots into this area on Embassy as far away as the bank!

4. incentive to cb.  there was no point for my team to compete this season without finals.  it just seemed pointless.

5. hookers for the winners.

w00t!  Great idea![/size]  ;D

I agree. I’m sure that z][t will not participate in any GhR ladders again no matter what. Changing of gametype, mappack or pointsystem won’t change that. The game is done, and we are doing different stuff now.

I'm with ya.  I think the mortar would change gameplay as would smoke nades.  Double seige would be interesting as well (it already exists).  Shaking the game up might reinvigorate it.  Now if only we could put limits on clan size then we'd really  get some CBs going.

amen

I think the mortar would be a bad idea, it will only be a matter time until people master it and are able to wipe out an entire team within the 1st 10 secs of a game.  The smoke nades would be interesting although slow computers are going to have bad frame rates around them and who is going to have the guts to take the smoke nades into battle instead of nades or sensors.

i hear ya pun on the mastery of the mortar... how about an idea I have brought up for 2 seasons... limiting the weapons on each side?

The GL spam problem isnt a problem if you have 6 nades flying at you.  Its a problem when 3 guys on one team take the GL and then you have 18 nades flying at you.

Now, we if we have the weapons limited, then we have a different gameplay than usual....

lets say that each player must take a unique kit... 1 OICW/sens, 1 SA80/Frag, 1OICWGL....


blah, why are we even talking about this... this game is dead.

A simple solution for both the mortar and GL spawn spamming problem is to activate spawn invulnerability.  I don't know if this works for the initial spawn but if someone could get that to work we could have the first 5 or 10 seconds of every game without any damage and spawn spamming is gone.

For the smoke nades, I have teken them numerous times.  It's like taking sensors, someone needs to.  I would expect each team to have one person bring sensors (at least) and one bring smoke.  The rest would have mortars, GLs and nades...

why make somebody bring smoke when as far as I see, it poses no purpose... I know I'de never use it, it doesn't provide an advantage for either side... I don't think modding the gaming parts of the ladder will improve activity enough to even notice.  I still play the game, I enjoy it sometimes, but I think it's about time we leave it alone and let it die.  For the most part, the clans that aren't playing ghr as much won't come back because smoke and mortars were added to the ladder.

Now lets enforce the clan member limit rule for clans that "are" participating in the league. No participating clan can have more than 5 members signed up!!! Every clan is forced to cut players and new clans would have to be formed.  Kill the friendships you've made with other clanmates and pick your top 5, sing them the "Na Na Na Na, Hey Hey Hey Goodbye" song if you have to. :o  The season is about winning the championship, not having fun getting your ass kicked.   If you want to have fun go play in your public game rooms.  If you want to win the DBL championship put together your best 5 man squad and lets grab our guns and go to war!  If Ghr is going to die then the clans shall die with it!

WeedWacker-->:P ::sniper::<--PUNiSHER

Well… the inactivity is obviously the main problem. Nevertheless a clan member limit won't get us anywhere.I mean wtf if your clan suddenly consits of only 5 members, you would hardly get a big cbs going like 5v5, also it won't help the activity at all, in my opinion it's very hard to be active with a 5 member clan. Anyway, my expirence with ghra tells me that this just cannot work, ghra has round 10 members but we have barely 3 members online if we wanna cb. I dont even wanna imagine ghra with only 5 members … we would never ever get a cb going.

" Kill the friendships you've made with other clanmates and pick your top 5, sing them the "Na Na Na Na, Hey Hey Hey Goodbye" song if you have to." Maybe this game is dead, actually it is fucking dead, but I dont see why i ought kill my friend- and relationships to give this game a last lame chance.
It's just not all about cbing, I assume ghra would rather leave this league then cutting its players down to 5. Fortunely it's not up to you to make the rules. =]

 Actually it's pretty cool that you thinking about how to increase activity, Pun. But in my eyes you cant help it, the game is just dead.::bussi::

-Tin

we could try to make cbing fun again with some kit restrictions...in my opinion its just too easy to get a kill with commonly used weapons like oicw or sa80! how about submachine guns only? or mp5 only...it would change the whole game! mb its worth a try, dunno! i just have more fun in games with these restrictions! well, i dunno if the community is willing to try something like this, and i dunno if it really would change something! spank me if its a too dumb idea!

Is the point playing in cb's embassy, siege with 3 respawns and a 20 min time ?
I sooo don't get it, i mean, its not because of the gametype, (wz no spawn rulz, its tactical, it force ennemy clan to move when you have wz) its all about ghr getting older and older. So, i agree with Magnetic, why would changing anything in gametype or mappack would change shit.
A clan limit ? to 5 ?, are you asking me to kick 7 ghra player for Ghr to stand up a season more ?
I think that the point isn't even here, the only bad Stuff in that league is that cb's should be schedules with a final type instead of season type. Look, when you decided to remove the final, cO which used to be a very active clan in ghr just stopped playing it, zt retired, is that no longer about skills but about Activity.
So, a player number limit, maybe for clan with 30 player getting splited or shit (but i only know 2 clans with 30 players or so), but do you want to destroy what keeps a clan alive, such as friendship ?
GhR is dieing, is that all about making it live a season more?

No, not everyuone will take smoke, but adding variety may spice it up and reinvigorate it in the short term.  It could be anything, from saying the X Weapon Proi  mod is mandated (though I'd preger GRM4) to a few changes to kits.  The point is to sqeeze a few more seasons out.

Smoke nades, BTW, are just something to mess around with but can be used to tactical advantage inside buildings or confined areas.

There are excellent smoke nades as well as flashbangs in AA. Come play with us.  8)

I am stuck with Ghost Recon until I get a new Mac...waiting on Intel Mac...

Another advatnage to taking smoke nades in a cb is placing them on an enemies dead body so they can't see anything and voice positions to other players.

Wow it sucks to be on a G3 for another year or so



P.S.
*** Waits for civic to tell him that the macs will be coming out sooner than that.[/size]

Not the PowerMacs (although they probably won't have this name anymore).

I gotta 1ghz g4 but its showing its age (was original 400mhz g4 sawtooth)

No..they'll still be called PowerMacs

That's why I said probably... because the "Power" in PowerMac comes from the PowerPC processor which it won't be anymore in the Intel-Macs.

Then you should be able to play AA
[/size]

C'mon Punkisher, we all know you don't have any friends.

Yeah I should, but AA is a POS...I got all settings set to super low and get such a low FPS I don't even wanna bother with AA.  I get 30-60FPS on Ghost Recon BTW.  Plenty of memory and video card is ok.  Weird. 

GhR has less than half of the system requirements of AA... but anyway, did you try tweaking the .ini files to their fullest yet?

Punisher from where did you got the War gametype!? Can you post an URL or send me the mod, because I couldn't find such a gametype in the MacDownloads doing a quick search. We are probably adding it to at least 1 ladder.

About the ELO system: it gonna stay for the next season(s). The advanced system will be introduced permanently with the *DBL 2.0 and script additions so you just have to submit the cb once and you have 2 rankings in the TEAM ladder.

About the cb length: CQB cbs maybe will be reduced to first to 3 - not decided yet. At all you can always agree otherwise when you organize a cb.

That's it for now.

Bye,

Mauti

http://members.aol.com/thepunisher428/war.zip

Thanks!

That WAR gametype seems cool but when we actually play it, it turns into a spawn camping mess.  Would prefer C&C or even HH or DOM over this.

Domination is already allowed since season 8 or 9. Further you can agree to play HH.

Do you think it would help to raise the invulnerability time to 10 or even 15 secs!?

Bye,

Mauti

10 seconds is good, 15 seconds is just too long[/size]

Ok.  Maybe I should read the rules?

I Appreciate the fun but this ain't the place folks. Keep the thread on track please.