*DAMN R6 Forum

I don't know about changing the rules about map and team choice, just make the rules more clear to prevent any other situations such as the one at the end of Season 7.

About restrictions, the only ones i could think of would be getting rid of High-caps and Heart beat sensors, but I doubt either of these would come to pass.

I would also vote to put in the 90 day season again, it was much more fun in my book, and would give more time for clans to get the required # of cb's in before an 8 clan single elimination tourney, should it be instated.

Addition:

Longer season and short postseason + a longer offseason would give more meaning to the winners.

     Personally, I'm a fan of the shorter seasons. They were shortened in the first place because the season was two months of inactivity, two weeks of some activity, and two weeks of frenzied activity. The pattern stayed the same, but with shorter periods of inactivity preceding the interesting part. IMO, I think the short seasons are working at least as well as the longer ones did.

     The shorter seasons have an advantage, in that they allow for experimentation with rules changes and such without too much risk. If a change turns out to be for the worse, hell, it only lasts six weeks, then we can change it back.

Im certianly not against shorter seasons.... but Having as many as five seasons a year feels like rather a lot. id say the majority of us mostly play during the winter months... so fitting so many seasons into a short season feels a bit rushed. - Not to mention the fact that the period "between seasons" for me can be one of the most enjoyable - things are so much more relaxed, we have some great guys running big servers (where all hell breaks loose ;) ) and some great fun games are played.

Pushing to many seasons in i belive would damage this...

Personally, I would like to see 4 Seasons each year, each lasting exactly 2 months, with exactly one month in between each season.  So, you would have one starting the first of January, going through February, then the month of March off.  The next season starts April 1, lasts through May, and you get June off.  The third season starts July 1, runs through August, and you get September off.  The final season starts October 1, runs through November, and you get December off.  Wow, that would be SOOOO easy to remember!

Make it so.

-GhostSniper Out.

i do rahter like GS's suggestion. then you have more than enough time for the finals to take place, the admins  have time to straighten things up, rule on issues, and retire/settle in. it also affords players ample time to relax. notably the off months seems to coincide with the times when school would be most hectic so that is an added bonus as well
also, while this would lead to more  ' interesting' times for the end of the season, along with an uneven season length (the first season of the year would be a few days shorter), it would be easier for players to remember the date of the end of the season

60 day seasons would most definitely work.

The shorter the seasons become, the less valuble wins will become.  Also, the shorter the season is means there is more luck involved in winning.  These are just my thoughts...I don't know how true they are but they seem to make sense to me.

That's similar to what I said Gabe, I think that shorter season take out the fun of anxiously waiting for another hyped up season.

Also, shorter seasons mean less to the respective winners in each ladder.

Darn you GS... I am agreeing with you. That's virtually a perfect schedule... and there is no more ambiguity. However, what do we do for the present? The april-may season is half over, so what would be the suggestion of the community? Play this coming season into June, which is an off month? Or, don't hold another season till July? I doubt that one will be popular.

The bast part of the idea is that it introduces some much needed structure to the league. One of the biggest drawbacks for me has been the awkwardness of when seasons start and end. Scheduled seasons would fix it.

As a counterpoint for the sake of arguement, the same could be done with a three month, three season year, with one month breaks. Not sure which the community prefers. Lets hear opinions!

Ara

You play Season VIII from its start on April 29 until, say June 15.  Then start Season IX on July 1, and go with the schedule I set out from there.  That would only shorten Season VIII by a little (the season would still be over a month and a half long), and would also give a 2 week break before Season IX begins.

It's so simple I could almost cry.

-GhostSniper Out.

GS, you are putting an awefully a lot of feedback for someone who can't participate in Season 8, but it's good to see that, keep it up.

A couple thoughts and considerations:

Great idea GS. I like it. But I have a quick question. Would the regular season end at the end of the second month or would finals end at the end of the second month? It doesn't really matter to me which way it goes, but I'd like it clarified just for clarification's sake.

As I understand it, the finals end at the end of the two months. Given our current system, emergency extentions also have a few weeks of the free month to get taken care of. However, you have an excellent point. If we implement the ladder finals system, we need more than two weeks for finals, which would make the finals almost as long as the season. Solution: use the three season/3 months per season alternate model that I suggested. Two months for season (8 wk), one for finals (4 wk) (or maybe 9/3 depending upon how the finals are implemented) and then a month off. Nice and simple still, and enough time for finals to pan out.

Actually Ara, that's incorrect. Unless more than 16 teams are competing in the finals, it will be done in two consecutive weekends. 16 teams makes for 4 rounds: one round each weekend day, two weekends.

That brings up a good point though, it might be a good idea to limit the total number of participaing teams to 16 to make the finals more manageable.

I was thinking that the finals should be done the last two weeks of that two month season.  That way you have a full month off from the battle league.  So take the first full season under this plan, Season IX.  It would start on July 1.  The regular part of the season would run until the Sunday before the last two weekends of August begin (this year, that would be on August 15).  Then you have the two weekends of August 21-22 and August 28-29 to complete the finals tournament.

So, finals would end at the end of the second month, giving everyone a much needed break of one full month.  Season X would start on October 1.

Pardon alaric, thanks for the clarification.

i'm in favor if the 2 month regular season with 1 month for the finals.  for those not in the finals, this would be an off season of sorts

there are a few reasons for this so i'll just list them off for clarity. these reasons also assume the use of the finals tournament. i don't know enough about the current system to make any time judgments on it

1, season length consistency: gs's system keeps the season at approximately 61 playing days  with a 3 months of playing system, i believe that none of the seasons would be the same length. that is based on mental mathand  memory so i may be wrong on that

2, season length:  next season is just around the corner, but the season is still long enough to play a  fair amount of cb's with out having to scrounge for them every night

3, continued action: by holding the finals during the 'off month' you occupy 2 out of the 3 weeks. a high level of admin attention during the weekends ensures that problems are solved on the spot, leaving admins free during the weeks the finals are played to discuss other issues that have surfaced during the season.  those not involved in the tournament will probably be watching the tourney, leaving a 1 week period between a winner being declared and  the fray starting again. this leads to a minimum of excitement down time

Interesting thoughts Flies, but I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree.

I think GS's season schedule makes more sense, as it accomodates those who are in school better and having longer seasons just means longer periods of inactivity before people start to cb anyway. If you really want to have summer off, just eliminate the July-August season. Maybe schedule some kind of summer tournament in it's place just to have something BL related going on.

I also think the MP finals system should replace the current finals system, for reasons I've outlined in other threads.

And finally, I think adding a minimum cb per week would do more hard than good. I think it would make the regular season less fun and more stressful. The incentives that come with the MP finals system should be more than enough to encourage people to cb, mostly by taking pressure off the regular season, not by putting more on.

 regardless of wether our suggestion, or any other final reform suggestion, goes through or not, i'd like to go on the record and say that i am 100% opposed to flies suggestion of requiring a certain number of cb's per week.  this plan would only further the practice of tactical cb'ing. if, say, 2 cb's were required per week lest you be made inactive, then all that would happen is the top ranked clans would go inactive each week because nobody would play them.  if we are going to increase  clan activity, the way to do it is not through force, but by incentive. we need to make them want to cb more.  remember "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink"

I am with you on this Brain. Many times in the past have people suggested this same rule, and I have always been against it. Its just not a practical rule. In a already small scale community the rule would just put to much of a strain on things.

I do however like Ghostsnipers suggestion on the 2 month seasons with one month off, but in the end, the season really rotate around Elandrion and Mauti coming up with the scripts for the ladders to run on. This will most deffinatly be a topic of suggestion in the admin section.

voods

I'm gonna have to throw the flag there man. I was assuming the finals to be part of the "months of the season" and not cutting into the off-month. This is a problem we have already, with rules issues and finals requiring a "cushion" of time to make sure we don't upset anything else. I understand that you believe your finals system will fix everything, but we can't let projections cloud the one truth I have always found on this ladder: it always needs more time.

Rules do not change often in professional sports, and even so they have long seasons of inactivity between the action. I don't ask for one season a year with 9 months of off-time, but I do ask for the one full month in between conflicts simply to be there whether people feel it is needed or not. Some of the best games take place when clans are mixing and not drawing lines against one another.

Aramarth

My idea was to have the finals tournament played at the end, but still WITHIN, the two month season.  I think everyone really needs that one full month off between seasons.

first off, i am aware of what you meant GS i was simply trying to make another suggestion

secondly, i don't believe that our finals proposal will fix everything, i believe that i stated that it would fix many, but not all

thirdly, if i remember correctly, the old style finals would also fit into a one month time frame, provided the clans grow up and act like the mature and professional groups they purport them selves to be

finaly, i was just trying to bring back a little of the flavor of the old style league where there were continuous clan battles, however, since people seem to want to rip off my head and spit down my throat for my suggestions (not just you people, but i have gotten some pretty nasty anonymous messages on gr over this issue)  i'm just going to shut up now and leave the running of the bl to the admins.

Hey Brain, I was throwing that in there for Aramarth's benefit since it sounded like he thought you didn't get it.

Also,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRAIN!!!

Don't drink too much on this, your 21st Birthday.  ;)

I'm in agreement with alaric.  I like the 60 day seasons for avoiding inactivity and also simply maintaining interest in each season as well.  I like cb-ing to be done at a clans convenience also so a clan doesnt lose points or standing just because that week they didnt have enough guys around.  Let's remember that in some ways its best to have less restrictions to make this more fun and leisurely.  The less pressure put on clans during the regular season will make for a more fun finals.  Thay way its simply a matter of if a clan makes the finals, congrats.  If not, you shoulda been more disciplined and done what it takes to get the points needed.

Anyone else agree with me that taking off a few hundred points for every week of inactivity starting at 1 and removed after a month would be a good idea?

Give thoughts/suggestions.

As an extreme example Crypt, assume for a moment that everyone boycotts the playong of one clan for one week... they could effectively shoot them off the top of the ladder. What would you propose to prevent this, if you were writing the rules?

Hmmm, never thought about it like that, maybe having to play a clan at least 1 or 2 times during the season (if extended to 60 days)

How about an admin could confirm that a clan could not find a CB for an entire week(after looking), and then they would not be punished points.

     My problem with a minimum-CB rule is that as soon as you decide to implement it, you must follow it up with more and more rules to cover the bases and prevent the example Aramarth gave and its less severe cousins. More complexity = more rules lawyering. Streamline and simplify the league rather than tacking on extra complexity.

I don't know loth, I think of our current points system is rather complex, and I long for the day that every clan plays the same number of cbs so that we can use a simple win/loss ratio for who wins. I seem to be a minority, but oh well. I don't agree that our problem is the number of rules, but instead the weight and wording.
It doesn't get more simple than "your clan will play every other clan once to be eligible to play in the finals." That was toothless for a long time, but with your finals system, it is near perfect. By boycotting another clan, you take yourself out too. In the extreme circumstance that no one is willing to cb a certain clan when the clan itself is making the effort, I think it will be obvious. Maybe to combat this, we don't require you to play every clan on the ladder, but instead a set number of them, something like 80%. Just a thought.

good idea ara, but that would tend to work against the Euro clans.

simply put, since we are not a professional league will will never be able to institute rigid scheduling and set CB's. people have lives, and those lives will come first. all we can really do i try our best to work around that fact

I fully understand the sentiment, but I wish you wouldn't use the word schedule. There is no set meeting date in the idea. As a side note, if two clans cannot manage to meet and play once in 2 months, how could they arrange finals in a week? That just doesn't make sense at all.

I would like three seasons per year. Winning a season takes up a lot of time and I think the winners deserve a month break AT LEAST! We didn't get to flaunt our season 6 win at all before season 7 started. Sucks. I'd suggest a system like this:

May 1-June 15                              Main ladder
June 15-July 4                             Finals  (Standard finals for GhR, please!!!!)

July 4-September 1                     Break

September 1-October 15          Main ladder
October 15-November 4            Finals

November 4-January 1              Break

January 1- February 15              Main ladder
February 15 - March 4                Finals

Repeat.

Notes:
I support the standard finals system and this system was deviced with the current finals system in mind.
Dates can be moved.
Finals can be extended due to long breaks.
I realize all seasons won't be equally long. Big deal?

I agree with Acri here, because a longer season should bring a longer offseason. IE longer for winner clan to reflect on their win and enjoy etc.


I disagree here, I see that you said dates could be changed, but I think a 60 day season is crucial.

As for the finals, all ladders should be the same so that everything can be streamlined, a forfeiture in one round won't cause a big problem on the forums or a hold-up of future events.

After reading the whole thread (and I applaude everyone involved for staying right on topic) I'm seeing a lot of interest in the idea of fixed seasons. Hooray! Acri's latest schedule takes into account two important things that anyone who has been around for a while will remember:

Last summer late July and August were completely dead due to people's summer trips. Those months should be avoided.

Likewise, the month of December is a bad time for anything season-related. In the states, The dead zone actually seemed to begin at Thanksgiving.

I know some still object to the 'MP' tournament format for the end of each season, but I am in favor of it and would only change Acri's schedule to make the seasons 6 weeks plus however many days to the Wednesday of the last week. That would allow Thursday and Friday for matchups to be determined and timeslots assigned. Finals would begin that Saturday and last 2 weekends. In addition, the fact that there are only 3 seasons per year means the gaps are more than long enough to accomodate any emergency finals juggling (which I believe the MP format for finals would eliminate).

As far as scheduling times for tournament matches under the 8 or 16-team format, I don't think it would be too hard to have a blank ladder set up with times indicated in advance. THe only variable would be who is seeded where and that would all be figured out on the last day of the season. If you finish 4th, look at the ladder and see what time #4 plays. Simple. If you can't rustle up enough people to make a match, then be happy that you finished 4th and look forward to next season. 90% of scheduling problems seem to come from the flexibility we have tried to maintain. I think that at least for the finals, it's time to cut back on the potential for drama and argument. This would also allow the admins to schedule their time if they are going to be expected to be present for all matches.

To those of you who protest at the loss of clans negotiating their own finals match times, I say have a word with Flies, or Splinter, or Bucc... or Eight, or Typhy...

I always believed this finals system was for RvS only. GhR-finals were painless this season. There is no need to change it. Stupid to EXPERIMENT with a working system. You might end up with a ruined season right before the summer holiday. That could potentially kill the GhR-ladder.

I am all for using that system for RvS. I am 100% against it for GhR. I will have to seriously consider my participation in the ladder should it be changed. This is a game I play to relax when I have time and will to play. I already feel that the current finals are stressful enough and I believe the new system will suck the fun out of gaming.

60 days could work fine too, but then mb only two seasons? Three seasons of 60 days plus 20 days for finals = 240/365 days per year. Doesn't leave too much of an off season, but since the seasons are so long, you still get to enjoy the title for at LEAST 2 months right?

Well, you really get to enjoy the title until you lose it the next season (if that happens)

You would have the title for three months. One for the offseason, and two as the reigning champion while the next season is in progress.

Make u appreciate it more when u had it :)

*flames the new finals system for GhR*

Flames duplicated beyond this point removed. -Ara

Aw, I wanted to see what he said :)

I think this is over. More than 90% of the people are in favor of the 60 day sesaon. Also, a lot are in favor of the DBL Tourney.

Why is this still going on!?

Possibly because the admins have not responded with what will and will not be changed for next season? Our discussion is at least active now, and we should know whats up by Monday at the latest.

I am standing at the edge now, Aramarth. One step closer to the tourney and I'm jumping!