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Title: which clans are in the finals???? Post by: waterproof on March 17, 2004, 01:48:59 pm i wunder which clans are in the finals!!!!??????
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BFG on March 17, 2004, 02:04:48 pm The ladder will have to be re-calucated to check any last changes to scores and admin changes to cb's ect. However as it so stands at this moment:
RvS Team Finalists: c| BTs -MP5- |!| GhR Team Finalists: z][t :MoD: .Gz. BTs I assume this will change as the cloesest clan in 5th spot in GhR is 600points short, however in RvS the gap is under 100 points... however i see no outstanding RvS cbs... So great job to all who competed and congrats to finalists... comiserations to those that didn't quite make it but gl for next season. The final final finalists will be official soon... Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 17, 2004, 02:59:44 pm Sorry, its core, c|, MP5 and BoC. I went to bed last night with only 10 minutes left in the season and BTs had yet to even start a clan battle. There is no way in hell BTs got a cb done in 10 minutes.
Elandrion, can you confirm what time that cb was put in? Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_eight on March 17, 2004, 03:02:19 pm If the cb was started before 2 am est it would count... 3 am est was when the BL ended and we finished before then... so GoodLuck to all the finalists!
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 17, 2004, 03:10:37 pm That seems hardly fair to the clans that got there cb's in on time. And BTs didnt.
Admins OK, my clan is involved so I will only say this. Last night when I went to bed the clans were 1)Collective, 2)Core, 3)MP5 and 4th)BoC. There was about 10 minutes left int he season and I was in the BTs server playing RvS watching to see if they were going to get a cb done. When I knew there was not enough time left for there clan to get a cb in On Time I went to bed. I wake up this morning to my surprise that BoC was moved down in the ladder because of a late bl submission. I there a way to confirm the time that the cb was submitted? As I see it the final 4 clans should be. Collective Core MP5 BoC Thanks, Voodoo I will agree to whatever the Admins decide. ie: I was on until 2:30 am and BTs had not gone into a cb yet. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 04:02:34 pm Voodoo we started the cb at 1:30 est. We even have a couple witnesses if you want to ask em (-MP5-Typhy, c| King.of.Pop, and | ! | Flies)
They were all waiting for our cb to finish, to find out results. Btw- Bucc was in the cb, and he's an admin.....so... Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Aramarth on March 17, 2004, 04:09:27 pm Ok sar, you said your piece. But I don't want to see anyone else going back and forth on this one. Please wait patiently for the ruling.
Ara Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Cutter on March 17, 2004, 04:14:06 pm heh i'm only on the pvp ladders and i stayed up almost all night to see if anybody made any late moves on my spot.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: c| Splinter on March 17, 2004, 05:49:20 pm Yeah, I remember signing on at around 11:30 pm PST (30 minutes before the end of the season), and the score just became 2-2. The time the match was submitted (11:42pm) coincides with what i saw.
From what I saw, it looks like this match was played, finished, and submitted all on time. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: static on March 17, 2004, 05:53:57 pm I don't say much in the forums. The CbB was started, finished and posted before the 12 midnight PST end of the season. I have no idea what time voodoo was going by but perhaps he is mistaken or maybe I am, dunno? I have several screenies of the time the cb was posted. If admins have any questions on the validity of the cb I will send them out.
static just trying to keep the peace Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Civrock on March 17, 2004, 06:19:43 pm i noticed that the BL runs in PST time... this means that the timer for the season ended at 11pm PST, 7am GMT. the cb has been posted obviously at 11:42pm PST, 42 minutes after the timer ran down.
it?s hard to decide if the cb should?ve just started before the time was up OR if it had to be finished already at that time to be count... Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: c| Splinter on March 17, 2004, 06:24:24 pm Well, a few seasons back before we had our automated system, c| got in a last minute CB that started before the end of the season, but ended and was submitted after the time was up.? The admins approved that CB. Right or wrong, that is the precedent we are working with.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 06:36:47 pm Even if that is true, the cb lasted 1 to 1 and 1/2 hours. I clearly remember that we started around 1:15 est time. So we started the cb 45 minutes b4 the season ended, and if im wrong i would like to see some sort of proof of that
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_eight on March 17, 2004, 06:41:56 pm When we started... the ladder said 1 hour left.... at 2 am it said 0 hours left....
So... doesn't this mean that there is LESS then an hour left but the season is still running? Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 17, 2004, 06:48:47 pm Like I said before, Hardly seems fair to all the clans that got there clan battles in on time.
Seems to me "tactical use" once again. If this is allowed to pass you all are saying that I could have "tatically used" the ladder timer to cb a clan at 1 minute before the end of the season. Does that seem right to you all? The answer is NO. I was under the impresion that all cb's had to be posted before the end of a season. After all, the "End of a Season" means the end. Cuput, no more. How can you post cb results 42 minutes after the End of a season. Ponder on that. vood's Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_FahQ2 on March 17, 2004, 06:53:01 pm Let's not tit for tat and pit for shit.
Simples questions just need to be answered. 1. What timezone is the BL running on? 2. What constitutes the official time of a CB, the start or the end? Answer these two questions and then we can all live merrily in happiness with lotion. So simple yet so hard. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 07:06:39 pm Let's not tit for tat and pit for shit. Simples questions just need to be answered. 1. What timezone is the BL running on? 2. What constitutes the official time of a CB, the start or the end? Answer these two questions and then we can all live merrily in happiness with lotion. So simple yet so hard. Simple questions, but very hard to answer. According to Civic, the BL runs on AKST time. ( Alaska Stand Time? Maybe. Never heard it called that before, though ). What time the Battle League runs on isn't what matters. The hard part about this is that we have no rules regarding it ( read through the rules, nothing about when the ladder ends ). It's our job to make a ruling on it, based on nothing, basically writing a new rule for it. It's being discussed, and hopefully we can get you an answer as soon as possible. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 07:20:53 pm As long as the cb STARTS before the season ends it's fine. We had 4 admins on when the cb took place, all paying attention. Typhy was in BTs_statics room waiting for results from the cb, flies was outside knowing that we are goign to cb MP, because i had a long chat with him. Harvey, and Bucc were both admins IN THE CB!
Now tell me, with 4 admins paying VERY close attention to a match, why would they say "good luck!" to us, or somethign liek that knowing the season ended eh? Not 1 of the 4 admins said anything about the season ending, so oviously the season did not end when we started the cb. Also, I have seen many clans do this before, 2 seasons ago the network for example cbed tribe right before the season ended, the cb lasted untill 1 hour after the dedline, and also the exampel Splinter had mentioned with his guys. Both those cb's were confirmed with no problem. So if it's not in the rules and other clans did it, I dont see whats wrong with it. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: static on March 17, 2004, 07:28:12 pm Ok sorry to put another wrench into the mess. But us being silly americans we observe something called "daylight saving time" gay as this may sound its true. The east coast uses it but 600 miles alway they do not. Daylight Saving Time, for the U.S. and its territories, is NOT observed in Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, most of the Eastern Time Zone portion of the State of Indiana, and the state of Arizona (not the Navajo Indian Reservation, which does observe). Navajo Nation participates in the Daylight Saving Time policy, due to its large size and location in three states. This alot to take in so please take the time to consider all aspects of this mess.
static Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 07:30:37 pm http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/clanladder/index.php?module=showcb&cbID=2304
Oh! whats this? another cb posted after the season ended! 11:38 PM! hey! it looks like ALL the clans are runnign under the influence of this rule, that you can start the cb b4 the season ends! Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_Lee.Harvey on March 17, 2004, 07:42:00 pm This CB had been planed out for like 2 hgrs....... WE had to wait for bucc to finish doing sme stuff b4 we could start it. Therre was no taticle use by waiitng till the last min. MP and Us had been tring to get CB's from everyone all night., We finaly CBed eachother (a very long and hard fought one) b/c there was no one left to cb. The ?B would have started an hr earlier but not everyone was ready!!
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Cutter on March 17, 2004, 08:02:52 pm sorry voo, but i just can't see how you could go to bed before the regular season ends, and then complain when you see you got bumped. yesterday was not only the last day of the season, it may have been the busiest. like i said i was only worried about the r6 ladder myself, but i stayed up until i saw the finals banner sometime around 3 am. EST. waiting to see if anybody made any moves. and you can bet your ass that if i was in a clan in the running for the first season of the rvs finals all of my clan would've been on and ready to get in any last minute cb.
doesn't typhy have a broken arm? and he still managed to do what was needed to get his clan into the finals. kudos typhy, if your arm really is broken i say cheers. it took balls to cb with a broken arm....and it paid off. it's kind of a shame because last night after the BTs - MP cb was over there was more love in the b&g then there's been in quite some time. we all say gg's and stuff after a cb, but there was almost a bonding between the two clans last night. it was funny in a way, but very sincere on both sides. this season seemed fairly peacefull and that cb last night topped it off nicely. btw, when does next season start? Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 17, 2004, 08:05:13 pm Ok, I have multiple BTs members in here bombarding from all angles. I am the spokeperson for my clan and will be the only one posting on this issue. BTs, please respect this and have one voice speak for your clan.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: static on March 17, 2004, 08:11:25 pm cutter is correct on this one. The "FINALS" banner appeared at 3am est (12am pst) making the official start of the finals. So my question is, the system mauti has in place is automated. Would it end the regular season and start the finals at the same time?
just a thought static Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 08:16:44 pm cutter is correct on this one. The "FINALS" banner appeared at 3am est (12am pst) making the official start of the finals. So my question is, the system mauti has in place is automated. Would it end the regular season and start the finals at the same time? just a thought static No. The system isn't automated. As Battle League admins, we have to go to our admin panel, and to "recalculate ladder", and select "activate finals". Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_Lee.Harvey on March 17, 2004, 08:17:32 pm WE had been talking to MP to try to get a cb going w/ about 2 hrs left in the season. WE had to wait for eight to get back.. then bucc was deleayed.. so finaly we got the cb going. I either expected MP to beat us 3-0 or the other way around. the score was2-0 BTs in the lead right around the time that the season timer ran out. well 45 min l8r the score came down to 2-2 and we were gong into thhe 4th game on the last map. WE were realy tring to get the cb started earlier but from past expiriance have seeen several other clan post last min cb after the timer ran out ([01] posted one too this season)
Now last season |GM| has a cb that last like 35 mins after the eason timer ran out (and it was start w/ 50 mins left in the reg. season). It counted then. And i remember the c| thing too. I did remember that someone raised the question of should it count or not.. and it did count. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Cutter on March 17, 2004, 08:26:36 pm if the season ended at 12:00 PST and the cb was submited at 11:42 PST then whats the problem? it was submited 17 minutes before the season ended.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 08:31:03 pm Exactly Harvey!
Many clans have gone by with the rule that cbs count as logn as they start b4 the season ends. It is a very interesting issue, but I think that this issue shoudl be discussed for next season, not this one. As for this season all clans went by that rule, so therefore if you want to question a rule let it apply for the next time because it would be unfair to penalize us for following the rules that everyone else went by. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 08:46:27 pm if the season ended at 12:00 PST and the cb was submited at 11:42 PST then whats the problem? it was submited 17 minutes before the season ended. The season ended at 11:00 PST, the CB was submitted 42 minutes after the season ended. " Typhy- it never became an issue. I actually posted in the CB Drop Box that the CB was started before the end of regulation, and it got posted without issue. I agree with Gambit. What if you started a CB 3 hours before the deadline, and it became one of those mondo-technical issue plague, server switch, camptastic cbs that just never end. I've been in at least 2 cbs that lasted over 3 hours, so it is very possible. Is that CB not to be counted? Just as Gambit said, no one will be able to predict how long a CB will last. Point taken. However, we can't let failure to discuss, or notice such an issue in the past decide this one. To quote the Battle League site ( ex ) "3 days, 14 hours until the finals". As the Battle League site states it, it would appear that the regular season ends when that timer runs out, and the finals begin. When the final's begin, CBs from the clans who aren't in the finals are no longer counted. In my opinion, we can't just say "It was handled this way in the past, let's always handle it this way now." This has been our first chance to take a look at such an issue, and how it might be unfair to other clans with situations like BoC's. I think that just saying "This is how we did it in the past" would be about as reasonable as saying "This is how Bondo defined *DAMN Ladder deadlines 2 years ago". That's from a post in the admins section. I think it sums up my stance on the "we've done it in the past" argument. Quote It is a very interesting issue, but I think that this issue shoudl be discussed for next season, not this one. As for this season all clans went by that rule, so therefore if you want to question a rule let it apply for the next time because it would be unfair to penalize us for following the rules that everyone else went by. If that were a rule, then I'd agree with you. Never has that been a rule, and this is the first instance of a CB coming in after the deadline that greatly effected the ladder. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 17, 2004, 08:50:56 pm It has not been a rule, but that is what everyone followed, therefore it leads other people to think "hey they did it, so can we"
If you want to challenge this then take back other wins! take back the win .::|N| needed to get to 2nd or 3rd place that season, take away c|'s wins that they needed, take all of them away. Oh but u cant its all in the past now. What happened yesterday was challenged, but if we see other people do it, then make it a rule before it happens! It truely isnt fair to not coutn that cb just because we were following all the other clans Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Cutter on March 17, 2004, 10:23:01 pm Quote The season ended at 11:00 PST, the CB was submitted 42 minutes after the season ended. you would know more about when the season ended then me, but i'm pretty friggin sure that the banner didn't switch until 3:00 am EST. i was waiting for it to switch all damn night. that would make it 12:00 PST. when the timer said 0 hours left it was 11 PST, but that hour still had to run out and it never switched until 12:00 PST. im pretty damn sure of it. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 10:26:01 pm Cutter, as I said, the reason that the banner didn't change is because as admins, we have to "activate" the finals - it wouldn't change until we activated it.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: static on March 17, 2004, 10:50:09 pm No. The system isn't automated. As Battle League admins, we have to go to our admin panel, and to "recalculate ladder", and select "activate finals".
Ok np but who was the admin that activated it at exactly at 3am???? he would have to be pretty damn good to pull that one off. Don't you think? Every BL that I have taken part in ended at 12PST. (5 and counting). I know I'm a nOOb! The fact is that (01) posted a cb after the end and we did. Also in those two cb's 3 or more admins were involved. Do you think these guys would cb they thought it wasn't going to count? We tried to get the cb going at 9pm est but because of both clans not being able to field players it got pushed back. We have been told by Mauti himself as long as the cb is started atleast one hour prior to the end of the season it would count. So maybe admins should check with Mauti on this one. (Mauti's ruling 2 seasons ago for the c| last minute cb) The facts are right in front of us. Is has been the standard for some time now. 3 seasons ago while I was in the Network, same thing happened with the same result, it counted. If changes are to be made next season maybe the better solution. Hopefully the admins will respect what has been common practice for the past few seasons and let the RvS finals get under way. If not no worries. respectfully, static Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: cO.Vickedson on March 17, 2004, 10:52:36 pm Couldn't we just fix all this by letting in 6 clans to the finals like we used to?
4 is lame. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 10:54:39 pm Static, I'm not sure that we can accept a "common practice" that is so unfair to BoC.
Quote he would have to be pretty damn good to pull that one off.? Don't you think? Hey, if Civic can reply to a topic 30 seconds after it's started, then I think 6 BL admins can find a way to activate the finals at the exact time. ;) I still haven't made up my mind which side I'll take on this issue. I'm merely pointing out that I think it's something we have to look into, and can't just dismiss because "that's how it's been done in the past". [/color] Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: static on March 17, 2004, 11:09:40 pm Cool no worries from me. I have said my peace.
static Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_Lee.Harvey on March 17, 2004, 11:28:18 pm Quote Static, I'm not sure that we can accept a "common practice" that is so unfair to BoC well.. its unfair to BTs too.. b/c from what we have all heard and what bucc said too.. as long as the cb started in regulation time it counted. We plated one of the hardest CB i have played in!! Now someone wants to take away what i think mp will even say was a hard earned win!! either way its ruled will be unfair to one team in someones eyes. From what has been done in the past the cb's that will start b4 the season time is up but finished after the time was up still counted. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 17, 2004, 11:55:31 pm Harvey, like I said in the Battle League Admins section, it's impossible to have a solution for this that is fair to both BTs and BoC.
Quote From what has been done in the past the cb's that will start b4 the season time is up but finished after the time was up still counted. As I said before, I don't care what's been done in the past. We never had a rule regarding this in the past; I think it's time that we got one, and stopped worrying about "what we did in the past." ( I'm getting tired of adressing this over and over. Read back through what I said earlier for an explaination that actually makes sense. ) My origonal suggestion still stands, my personal opinion of this would be that there is no solution that will be fair to both BoC and BTs, I think a fair middle ground would be a playoff between the two clans - a single CB - winner goes to the finals. The other admins don't seem to like this idea much, probably because it doesn't actually adress, or even regard this issue. It's just a faster way around. My personal opinion is that disputes about CBs should be settled in the game, and that one of the critical parts of this dispute is a fast resolution. [/color] Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: alaric on March 18, 2004, 12:15:15 am I agree that this is a shitty situation for both clans, however I'd like to point out one small thing.
In the american legal system at least, judges tend to base their decisions off precedent, as in, what other decisions or practices have been in place. I think that the precedent here goes to BTs. It has been common practice to accept CBs that start before the official end time of the season but end after. I also see no reason to change this precedent either. The length of a CB varies drastically from CB to CB so it only makes sense to go by the start time. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 18, 2004, 12:15:22 am I don't agree with typhy's idea, because i still stand by the fact that we earned that cb fairly.
What I would liek to point out here is voodoo was accusing us of starting the cb AFTER the season ended not submitting it after. We have proven the fact that we started before, now its a different issue. Now it's a submittion issue. So according to what voodoo accused us of he was wrong. I think it's dumb to branch off to submittions like we did. So point is we proved voodoo wrong in which he accused us of starting the cb before the season ended, therefore I see nothign for him to complain about. Submittion is a different thing, if you guys want to discuss that then do it for next season. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on March 18, 2004, 12:38:00 am Speaking as a player, not an admin, the CB ended before the Midnight PST deadline.
Proof of this can be seen by looking at the MP Server account #118455, which shows it logged off at 2:40am EST. A good 20 minutes before the deadline. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: (SiX) CAM on March 18, 2004, 12:42:16 am Wow, gg. Why is there so much commotion over this? Isn't the real point who won the match and not if was 20 minutes before 12 or not? Whoever won the match won...btw, get your matches done earlier and there wont' be a problem.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 18, 2004, 12:57:43 am I don't agree with typhy's idea, because i still stand by the fact that we earned that cb fairly. What I would like to point out here is voodoo was accusing us of starting the cb AFTER the season ended not submitting it after. We have proven the fact that we started before, now its a different issue. Now it's a submission issue. So according to what voodoo accused us of he was wrong. I think it's dumb to branch off to submissions like we did. So point is we proved voodoo wrong in which he accused us of starting the cb before the season ended, therefore I see nothing for him to complain about. Submission is a different thing, if you guys want to discuss that then do it for next season. Do you just post to see your own post or do you actually read any of the posts? If you actually read any of my posts you would see and comprehend that I wasn't clear on what time the cb was submitted. Dont put words in my mouth. Start reading sar, you wont look like as much of a fucktard. ;D Quote Proof of this can be seen by looking at the MP Server account #118455, which shows it logged off at 2:40am EST.? A good 20 minutes before the deadline. With this new evidence can another admin lock this thread. I really shouldnt lock a thread that Im directly involved with. There is no argument if the cb was posted 20 minutes before the end of the season. The Admins can continue there debate in a new thread or admin section on a possible rule change for next season? Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: SAR(VoLaTile) on March 18, 2004, 01:02:20 am Sorry, its core, c|, MP5 and BoC. I went to bed last night with only 10 minutes left in the season and BTs had yet to even start a clan battle. There is no way in hell BTs got a cb done in 10 minutes. Elandrion, can you confirm what time that cb was put in? Sorry my eyes must not be working because u never posted this right? Fucktard? hmm, an admin is turning an interestign topic into a flame war? weird...i thought admins prevent them. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: .vooDoo. on March 18, 2004, 01:05:03 am Sorry, its core, c|, MP5 and BoC. I went to bed last night with only 10 minutes left in the season and BTs had yet to even start a clan battle. There is no way in hell BTs got a cb done in 10 minutes. Elandrion, can you confirm what time that cb was put in? Sorry my eyes must not be working because u never posted this right? Take your time Sar and read it really really slow, you will get it soon...I hope. Lock the thread plz. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: c| Splinter on March 18, 2004, 01:07:46 am I agree with Voodoo, that as much evidence that can be presented has been.
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/admininvestigates.gif) Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: BTs_Lee.Harvey on March 18, 2004, 01:08:50 am Yes this thread can be locked now that vood said that he can now see that it was done in time.. But the admins still need to disciss this b4 next season.
BTW voods.. i explained what you were saying to sar.. he was misreading.. he thought you were saying there was no way we could gave gotten a cb in 10 mins.. He understands now. Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: Typhy on March 18, 2004, 01:15:55 am I think we've got all the facts. We're just waiting for confirmation from Elan on one thing, and then you should have a decision within a few hours.
Title: Re:which clans are in the finals???? Post by: c| Splinter on March 18, 2004, 03:49:08 pm For those who don't know, BTs win over MP stands. We now have confirmation that the main season ended at 12:00am PST, and the cb was submitted in time at 11:42pm PST.
The finals for RvS are: c| vs | ! | BTs vs -MP5- Game on! |