*DAMN R6 Forum

Hi all finalists !

Hidden around here on DAMN-site, we have started to schedule the CBs.
I am making this new thread, just in hope we could have one official place to put our Scheduling,
wether its a question of timing or number of players.

I will start myself with a direct message to N-Diesel:


"I have just been informed that the 9 day timeframe for the Finals will stay.

Thats OK with us in !-clan.

But then we would have to ask N-clan for a quick and serious decision upon when to play.
The default hours and number of players in the rules are OK with us, and until we hear from N-clan, I guess we have to stick to them:

I sugggest we do first CB tonight at 22:30 GMT/ 5:30 EST,? 4v4 or more.
I suggest we do 2.nd and 3.rd. CB tomorrow at 22:30 GMT/ 5:30 EST, 4v4 or more.

These suggests are just as written in rules.? Contact me Quick Diesel, either here or on email or whatever. I know you think this sucks - but I tried to help, and now im running out of ideas myself.

Best regards - and ty for a funny conversation last night on nf btw :-)

l ! l? Flies

I cannot believe there will not be an extension.  My clients are way more flexible [except for uffy  ;)] than this ladder.  This ladder seems to run by people that are never in the finals nor are competitive on the ladder.   For one, its a goddman game.  Making an extension really would not do any harm.  Second, way the finals were planned out this season is a bit unfair.  This is our SECOND season with playing a Euro clan in the finals.  There is no way that any of our guys are online until late in the evening for the Euros.  I feel that come next season, the .::|N|etwork may not will not be joining this ladder due to huge time constraints after the END of a hard working season.  

As for Flies-

Firstly, make that first cb on Tuesday.  We never discussed having one on Monday being that NOBODY would be on.  The most I can say is I will try to make it on Tues to kick off the first match.  Please dont forget that just because these times are decent for you and OUTRAGEOUS for us--that they are official.  

And btw, nice conversation last night.  

POST ZE TIME!!!  LOL ;D

fyi: 22:30 gmt = 17:30 est = 14:30 pst

that's the equation for us.

some of our players are being forced to play at 2:30pm? that's reasonable?

two days in a row?

they are supposed to tell their bosses TODAY that they have to leave early today and tomorrow?

sound good to anyone here?

didn't think so.

NOT reasonable. sorry.

take a nap and stay up late. not so reasonable for you either, right?

22:30 GMT

That is 23:30 for me....and 00:30 for Joka.

I am sorry, but starting  at midnight, and then play 3 full "best-of-ten" cb?s in a row,
on a normal weekday - thats a no-go from here.

I am forced to ask you either to do one cb today and the rest tomorrow - or do one "best-of-16" tomorrow.

Best regards

l ! l  Flies

Forced?!

Flies--

Check this.  I know your concerned about the well-being of your clan, but this is a two way street for 2 teams; not one.  We can honor one of your desired times to play but then you must honor ours.  This is the only fair way.  We are not playin on your schedule only.  Please dont start to blow this out of proportion.

Btw, from the nf conversation last night flies.  Monday was never an option.  I believe it was Tuesday.  Please take me for a goddamn idiot.  

And why arent any of the Moderators posting a reply to this thread.  I see elan is posting to threads that arent nearly as important as this is.  Some kind of response would be appreciated.

It actually hurts me a bit, that you dont think I tried to help on this matter.

But lets stick to the right proportions then - and go by the rules:

....."Attention: in the finals you have to play! The default cb times are one cb per day - EUR vs EUR clans at 8:00pm GMT, US vs US clans 9pm EST(New York Time) and EUR vs US clans 10:30pm GMT(5:30pm EST) and if your clan comes from outside EUR or US the default time is 6:00pm GMT. # of players is up to you. If you can't decide the default # of players will be taken......."

Yesterday, when I asked for scheduling, I was informed by N-Noto that the N-clan couldnt CB Sunday at 22:30 GMT. Or any time at all Sunday. In fact N-Noto at that time said N-clan was pissed and would forfeit the whole ladder.
I have a copy of that chat.

This leaves us with two days to do the CB?s. Today and tomorrow.

The rules say one CB pr. day by default - and 4v4 players by default.
This means that we can still hope it will only be 2 CB?s (if one of the clans wins both), but since your clan had better time tomorrow, I suggest we aim for one tonight and "rest" tomorrow.

And plz dont shoot at me Diesel - I am only the piano-player here.

Best regards

l ! l  Flies

Diesel
(I am here trying to answer your edited post).

To me the situation right now isnt so difficult, that we need a moderator to help us out.

I have offered you to stick by the rules as described - or do a single  "best of 16" CB tomorrow.
You are of course also welcome to do the "best of 16" today.

Now I think I have done suggestions enough.. I even tried to change the whole finals-system for you :-)

Unless I get a serious suggest from you, the Core-clan will be here today at 22:30 GMT with at least 4 players, rdy for a "best-of-ten" CB.

We hope to meet you - we like the N-clan, and would hate to go on, based upon forfeits or any other stupid stuff.

Best regards
l ! l  Flies
 

actually, I try to stay out of rules discussions, because this does not really fall into my responsibility. you'll have to ask Mauti about that.

Elan

I just woke up, sorry I will schedule my time around problems that don't require me. What would you like us to do? Say "Ok, Diesel you usually walk your dog at 6:30 but if you walk him at 4:30 that leaves time for you to cb."

Mods aren't here to moderate your schedule. Get on NF, get in a convo on GR or even in a PM here. Get times that are good for both clans. What else would you like us to do? Call your boss?

The issue here, haz, isnt that we want anything from you beyond simple clarification.  My clan would appreciate if you (the mods) would make it clear that we are not in danger of a forfeit due to scheduling conflicts.

Reality is the pain in the butt here.  It is just plain impossible for west-coasters to play at 1430 their time.  Today, monday, I cant just jump on and play, because I have this little thing called a college exam.  Tomorrow, I can play basically whenever, but thats no help if I dont have teamates.

Flexibility is all we ask.  We will do our best to get online, but that only helps if the core clan returns the favor.

In my opinion, an extension has to be allowed.  This scheduling problem will not end with .::|N| vs !.  If c| was in .::|N|'s place, we also wouldn't be able to play.  It's not fair to ask Euro players to stay up till 3am, and it's not fair to ask US players to cut out of school/work to come play a video game.  Weekends are the only neutral time for everyone.

Greeting and salutation from the sunny State of Florida!  I hope all of you realize that a thread concerning The .::|N|etwork without a reply from Noto is simply not a thread at all! ;D  

And yes, this does concern The .::|N|etwork, very much so indeed.

GEN BILLY, DIESEL, and myself had at least a 30 minute conversation with | ! | Flies yesterday.  It took place on NF and in a locked, premium chat room hosted by myself.  Personally, I have no problem with | ! | Flies.  The rules that have been created to deal with problems about U.S. vs. Euro clans is what The .::|N|etwork has a problem with.  If there is any evidence of favoring (favouring) towards the European clans, then this rule wins all possible trophies.  Why have no other clans challenged this rule before?  That's easy.  

There have been so many other 'rules' that have been challenged or questioned this season, that this "finals CB time" rule has been overlooked until now.  Plus, nobody really cared about this rule until it affected them.  It obviously affects The .::|N|etwork because this rule forces our U.S. players to play at hours during work and school.

Perhaps what is lacking here is the understanding of cultures across the Atlantic.  American society is a very 24-hour society.  Just because 5pm rolls around definitely does not mean that the world stops.  We have many, many companies that are open 24 hours a day.  In short, Americans no longer punch out for the day, and then rest at home.  I, for instance, attend school anywhere from 8 in the morning to 8 at night.  I have a job that keeps me until 2 and 3 in the morning some times.  This is life for Americans, and I think any American participating in this battle league can agree as to what I am pointing out.  This rule completely caters to the Euro players because it allows them to play at night, which is when the day is more or less over.  Well guess what, North American GhR players play mostly at night as well.  Do we do this on purpose? No, we do it because the majority of what we have to do in a day is over by nightfall and we are able to play from dusk until the next dawn.  Has anyone ever check out how many players are on during the day? VERY FEW, AND THEY ARE MOSTLY EURO.  The North Americans start coming on around 7pm, and the majority are here around 9pm.

Now to get to a point.  Not only does this rule give Americans an early time to start playing, but coupled together with the fact that the round has to be played within 3 days makes it nearly impossible to coordinate a clan battle properly.  Also, the end of the season happened to be on a Sunday morning.  Had planning and thought gone into this, the regular season should have ended on a Wednesday or a Thursday.  This would have left time open for the first round of the finals to be played on a weekend, and the last round to finish on a weekend as well.  Such a simple little thing could have avoided some of the problems we are encountering at this time, but due to a gross oversight, the final round of the finals actually ends on a Monday.

What were the reasons of reducing the amount of time the finals were to be played? It probably had to do with the fact that the finals should not be drawn out for weeks at a time.  I think finals last season were three weeks long.  If the intentions were to reduce the time the finals were to be played, why not make it a day per round? Friday first round, Saturday second round, and Sunday third and final round.  At least everyone can plan for that at the beginning of the season.  I know The .::|N|etwork, BTs, c| and [one] would never have imagined having to play a Euro clan during the weekday for a finals round.  This is ridiculous.

I think I have proven my point that the formula set by this BL: Finals : Shorter rounds + fixed times + weekdays : Does not Equal : A properly run finals.

Do I have a suggestion for what to do? Yes, I do have a suggestion.  If there are going to be fixed times, which conflict for the majority of US players, then why not fix the days in which to play the rounds?  How about weekends?  How about not on mondays, which is notoriously the busiest day of the week worldwide?  Weekends have always been the best neutral time to play GhR.  The weekends bring more traffic to GR than the weekdays.  I would love to play | ! | on Saturday, and then if we win, play the next round of finals that day, and the the final round on Sunday!  The finals could be wrapped into one weekend or two, and could still be played on the weekdays, but to force US players, especially West Coast US, to play when they have work and school during their daytime hours is simply unfair.

I ask that the Moderators, no matter how lowly you think you are or what level on contribution you give, to chime in on this.  If I were a Euro player, I would not want to play at 3 and 4 in the morning for the sake of a video game, and then have to get up the next morning for school.  As a US player, I will not skip school or work for a video game.  Come on Moderators, put yourself in in the shoes of BOTH SIDES.

If an extension, or modification of the rules cannot be agreed to, then The .::|N|etwork will be forced to forfeit this round of the finals.  We really have no other choice.  There is a 10 hour difference between the Western most players of .::|N| and the Eastern most players of | ! |.  The rules simply do not take into account that a situation of this nature is possible.

.::|N| Noto

Hey Flies, I must have missed this post when I was writing my first one.  I originally said I had no problem with you.  Now I do have a problem with you.  I have a problem with how you try to spin everything against us and how you seemingly tried all you could.  Flies, you can eat shit and die.  Seriously, Eat shit, then die.


I'm sorry, there were 3 .::|N| members discussing flexibility with you, I failed to see any other | ! | members around.  Eat shit and die.


We also gave you times yesterday.  None of those times were good enough for you either, in fact, I believe we offered more possible time periods than you did.  Eat shit and die.


Well, to be honest, we thought we were going against the co||ective.  Most of our guys come on at night.  In fact, Flies, we had more members online at the scheduled 5:30pm EST start time for the CB.  You had only 2 members online, including yourself.  Eat shit and die.


We?  We?  You said you were going to talk to Mauti because you and him were "tight" and that you would be able to get an extension.  You made it sound like Mauti was your bitch.  And yet again, eat shit and die.


Are you accusing us of stalling?  Diesel, Billy, and myself called people and got them online yesterday.  If we were trying to stall, why would we bother typing this out??  Hey Flies, we'll CB you girly man, but your crew might have to post pone their bed time.  Tell them to ask their mommies right now.  I'm sure it's easier to ask mommy to stay up playing video games than it is to tell our bosses we have to leave early.  Eat shit and die.


You opened a can of shit Flies.  Not only did we reply to them, but I pointed out on numerous occasions that there is a 10 hour difference between our players and your players.  You actually didn't suggest anything other than what the rules had already posted.  You make it sound like you were peddling times to us and we wouldn't agree to the right price.  That's horse pussy!  We had this same situation with [V] last season, and it was only resolved by playing on the weekend.  Flies, your suggestsions were not suggestions, they were parroted quotes of the stated rules.  By the way, where were all of your guys yesterday at 5:30pm EST?  Eat shit and die.

.::|N| Noto   >:(

Haz-

If you were close enough I would slap the immaturity right out of your ass.  I simply posted for a time extention that caters to all members of the finals, namely the .::|N|etwork.  I was looking for some official opinion from the Moderators and yet again I get some faggot ass bullshit response from some another smart ass with a little title under his named that reads:  "BL Moderator."  You need to grow up.  How about I give you a second chance to rethink the prior post and maybe, just maybe you can give me a straight answer to the topic at hand.  Go ahead I dare you.

On another note, Maybe having only 2 moderators that are active in the BL presents a problem because the others just dont care or cannot relate.  Hmm... Just somthing to think about.

just because the DAMN rules set a default time (which favors one side versus the other) does not make it FAIR.

our whole point is that if you would rather win by NOT playing us because that is what the rules state... then that is pretty pathetic.

Heck, maybe you'll get lucky and win the next round the same way. By dodging it.

And don't give me any bs about us stalling or trying to dodge you. We beat y'all last season in the finals, and we'll do it again this season. If we get to play.

(PS: read this whole thing whle standing on your head. I think I like the ! guys  as much as anyone on the BL. I think they know this. But we are truly getting shafted by these rules. I don't think you guys are being unfair at all...it's the rules that are unfair, and they happen to be on your side.)

You want my straight answer? Here it is: I have no problem with clans waiting till the weekend to cb. If another mod seconds this motion fine.


whoops sorry haz - I clicked the wrong button so I deleted half of your post :(( - Elan

Haz--

This was all I was asking for:

This is only because of the time constraint from a euro and US based clan.  The only thing we are asking for are for our matches agains | ! |  to be allowed on the weekends so we dont have this problem during the week given the time constraint at hand.  This ladder has always been fun and needs to remain fun.  The impossible schedule to compete in the finals should not be so difficult.  This really shouldnt be that hard to figure out.  

.::|N| vs | ! | = weekend.


Thanks

Yea, like I said I apologize to N and !. I just get messed up with forum bs sometimes.

To be honest with you Haz, I do not think most of the people posting towards the admins know the rules of the admins.  I have heard it had to be at least two admins, but which two admins?  It always seems that certain admins post about certain things.  Can an admin clear up admin responsibility confusion in a new thread defining what the roles of the admins actually are?  I think that might clear up confusion on our parts as to what we are wanting from admins.  Thanks.

.::|N| Noto

P.S. Flies, you can still eat shit and die.  You are not by any chance a lawyer, are you?  You spin the situations of others' masterfully.  I applaude you for that twisted gift that you possess, you little manipulator you.  ;)

I think we all know that would be the best solution. If the admins could stretch the first round with only 3 days, The Network and The Core will be very thankfull.

Hell, I'll even send you one of my sheep.

Dutchman

Haz, I second that. As with the discussion earlier this season on the "strictness" of the rules, in my opinion the rules concerning such things like timing of a CB should be considered guidelines.

*DAMN Elandrion

So, as of now I have 2 BL Mods and Dutchy in agreement to move this cb to the weekend.  

Great.  This just may work out for the best.   ;D

If I were involved in either of the two clans, I'd also agree to it, but since im not, I'll just give my agreement that it is a good idea.

Lol Diesel, it's not only me form Core who would like to cb on Friday/Saterday. Believe it or not, we all prefer to sleep at 3 am during weekdays. ;)

So actually it's the Network, Core and 2 BL admins who would like to agree on stretching the first round till comming weekend

Dutchman

so that's it then? problem solved?

or are we waiting for some additional approval from "on high" ????

woooooooooot.

cant wait for saturday. hope i get on in time to catch some action.

If both clans are willing to CB this coming weekend, then what is the problem?  Two admins like the idea, members from other clans (that are finalist) like the idea, the memberos .::|N| and | ! | also like the idea.  It seems that Flies is the only one who does not like this idea, but hey, if Flies wants to win round one because The .::|N|etwork cannot be there, then fine.  Have your hollow victory Flies, but you'll have to wait until after Tuesday for it.  I would have figured that | ! | would rather face us in the finals properly rather than humping the rules for forfeiture.  We want to CB, we just cannot due to the biased writing of the rules.  I'm glad you take advantage of that Flies.  It makes you and your clan look like a bunch of champions.

Flies, you have already said you wouldn't mind CBing this coming weekend, so what's the problem?  No one is forcing you to seek any further decision from the Admins that has been given.  If you want to stick by the rules, that is your decision, and the decision of your clan.  If you want to CB us this weekend, then that is still your decision and the decision of your clan.  

.::|N| Noto

You missed this quote Noto ;)

| ! | Dutchman

Gameroom is open eh?  Thats good and all but how am I supposed to be in it...if I'm still at work?  Sorry everyone cant cater to the euro schedule.  If this cannot be resolved...I dont really give a shit.  I'll just pull out of finals as well. I've got more important things to worry about than...Hey, boss....can I get out early today so I can play a video game?  BUT...its a REALLY important game, where I win absolutely nothing other than a nice graphic that says im  WINNER.  Hey N, I can make winner badges for all of you.  It was the same bullshit last year.

SO I THINK THE SITUATION HAS BEEN AGREED UPON AND APPROVED BY TWO BATTLE TEAM MODERATORS  THE CORE CLAN AND THE NETWORK

WE HAVE A TIME SET UP ON SATURDAY AND THE NETWORK WILL BE THERE.

NOW FLIES WHATS WITH LEAVING ME A PW TO YOUR ROOM IF I WASNT EVEN THERE? AND EVEN IF I WAS THERE WHO WAS GONNA CB ME?, AND ME?, AND ME?,AND AGAIN LIL OL ME  VS THE CORE? I CAN TAKE YA....HEHE  WHAT A DUMBASS


I GUESS YOU LIED WHEN WE ALL TALKED SUNDAY THAT YOU WOULDNT CB US ON MONDAY OR WED SINCE WE ALL HAVE PERSONAL MATTERS TO ATTEND TO.

YOU ALSO SAID IT YOURSELF TO ME AND NOTO AND DIESEL WE WERE ALL THERE THAT YOUR CLAN CANT MAKE MON OR WED EITHER.

WE ALSO TOLD YOU TO CALL YOUR BOYS LETS DO ONE RIGHT NOW,BUT YOU DIDNT. SO DID WE CALL OUT THE HOGS AND CALL FORFIET....NO WE DIDNT.

WE TRIED TO WORK IT OUT BUT TODAY WHAT ARE YOU DOING CALLING A FORFIET FOR US WHEN YOU YOURSELF SAID YOU WOULDNT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THEN YOU POP IN AND CALL A FORFIET FOR US BULL SHIT FLIES I THOUGHT YOU WERE A BETTER PERSON THAN THAT.

AND IM SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT VOODOO WAS RIGHT ABOUT YOU ALL ALONG, AND THATS HARD FOR ME TO SAY.

Thats sucks, [one] sends it's regards.  We would have been in the same situation if it hadn't had been for a couple hundred points...

This really needs to be worked out for next season.  Live and learn.

Yeah, no kiddin wick, the finals should be scheduled to begin on a thursday night or something, that way any European-North American cb's can be set and played out in the next few days.

We were prepared for a double-header on Sunday, yes Flies...but after the 3 hour marathon with c| yesterday I'm glad we didn't have to.

However, this is only going to be an issue again with whoever wins between c| and [one]...We kinda get fucked either way.  Oh well

unless I am mistaken, this ain't over yet.

one of the following is true:

(A) Mauti will finally relent that the schedule wasn't really fair, and allow us to cb on saturday. back to back to back, if necessary.

(B) Mauti will say the schedule stands. In that case, N forfeits game one for not showing up according to the schedule in the rules. We didn't miss the entire round yet, just the first cb of a best-of-3 series.

If (A) is true, hooray! These finals might actually be settled by playing the game, not by a poor set of circumstances and some petty bickering.

If (B) is true, then N will propose a time to cb within the remaining hours of this round. Of course, inevitably, that time will not work for [!], so they will again raise the issue that the time for the cb will go according to the default time set in the rules. So, we'll have a repeat of this for tomorrow. N will not be able to get a team online, and we'll miss our appointment. Which we never agreed to in the first place.

Unfortunately, the collateral damage of (B) is that, at least in some people's minds, these finals will have been tainted. That badge of honor the [!] clan so desperately desires will be a badge of shame, in my opinion.

Let's consider option (C) shall we?

An upstanding, adventurous, principled clan leader might have taken it upon himself to say, "No. I will not take a sour victory such as this. We played hard and well all season. I do not want this tainted badge. If we cannot win on our merits, we shall not win at all. We too shall not show up at the appointed time. We shall boycott these unfair rules. We shall hold the finals hostage to truth, honor, and dignity. We will make the rules work for us ALL."

Of course, these types of selfless acts are few and far between here in the good ole' 21st century of gameranger, where it seems we are all hostages, not hostage-takers. Those who write the rules, make the rules, I guess. I imagine it is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition in their eyes. Well, I guess we're leaving it.

wait...just reviewed the rules....

default is one cb per day at the appointed time.

we had guys on for it on sunday. we didn't pull the ole' shaft routine...but we were on and ready. core was not.

core had the guys today, we didn't

does that mean we are tied at one forfeit each now?

1-1?

 is that how we want it?

we don't. we wanna play. on saturday. be there or be square.

That's complete horse pussy!!  First off, get the fucking tag right:

.::|N|

I wasn't the only one there Flies.  GEN BILLY and DIESEL were also there.  What deal was it that we refused?  I think it was the deal that said we had to play that day, Sunday.  Our members thought we were going against the co||ective, so they thought to be on later than 2pm.  Like I said in an earlier post.  We had guys on at the "appointed time" on Sunday, although they were there for the co||ective.

For the love of fuck Flies, either give both sides of a story or do not post at all!  I'm seriously going to fly to Europe and beat the shit out of you if you keep doing this one-sided story telling shit again.  Don't think I won't come over either.  I just renewed my Irish passport, finished a pint of Guinness, and E-mailed my family in Scariff and Dublin.  Don't make me go Irish on your ass!

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/rambo.gif)

Bring it | ! |

.::|N| Noto

Flies come on now think

we have two moderators that approved the saturday battle

that is why mauti has moderators is to take care of all the little bullshit that goes on from day to day.

we also have a post from you and dutch saying saturday is ok also.

mind you we made the saturday date last sunday remember.

why dont you just stop all this mauti talk and show up.

since the matter is settled by the battle league moderators.

Yeah excellent idea -*;;;;:.-N NOTO(did I get the tag correctly?)
Come over to Europe and bring your clan(not your family) with you, that would solve all the timing problems and then I would have a change to go
Finnish on your far-fetched Irish ass.

wOOt Burke   8)

I think we all forget that theres people that are not in the finals, and that they prob wanna get back to cb'ing soon, so us finalists cant take all the time in the world.

Although not only would i like to see the cb on the weekend but it is the only time its even possible for me.

Diesel and noto..whats going on here? You guys are better than this. Im not going to tell you to chill cause when you tell someone who not chilled to chil they just get more..well you know, Not saying that you guys arent chilled  ofcourse  ;) But lets try to be friendly here.

Err joka....

(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative8.jpg)

I thought i said it pretty simple, I'll say it again:
Why do you have a Ghostracoon (GhRa) slogan under your avatar when your now in a new clan?  8)

Omg! not Finish! ...:::::|N| Noto, plz stay there, don't let | ! | Burke go Finish on you. I have seen it once and I don't wanna see it again. Not even in the newspapers. I still have nightmares.

| ! | Dutchman

PS: So now we have two BL admins who agree on stretching the first round with 3 days. I also noticed we get a lot of support from the other finalists who are willing to wait 3 days. And I know the rest of the GhR community wouldn't be upset either.

So my question to the BL admins is: can we now officially cb friday/saterday against
.::|N| ? Or do you have to consult Mauti about this as well?

Bla bla bla bla complain complain complain complain...

Why couldn't we start the first round on weekend??? -

I answer this question with a counter question: Guys when did the finals start? - Yep sunday morning european time(saturday night pazific time)! Did someone play on this weekend day of ! or N!? NO - it's better to complain as long as the finals get extended and all other clans that have played their games in the correct time frame have to wait. Instead of complaining you could have played all games on sunday because the finals are designed that each round has at least one weekend day. Well next season I gonna make it more beautiful that you even have two full weekends and two fridays in it but thats next season.

Let's think about extending the finals: hmmm that would mean we would have to extend the finals for almost two weeks so that each round can be played on a weekend day which it was prior this stupid bla bla bla here.

Currently I have definitive other priorities than *DAMN or the BL and even if I think it is your own fault that you didn't play on sunday and the last possibility would be to ban you both I have the following suggestions:

Because the clans that have played their finals correct have to wait you have to talk with them and you need to get their agreement. So the leader of c|, BTs, SL and One have to post here that they agree to extend the finals until the 23th november. First round until sunday 12:00am CET 16th november. Second round sunday 12:00am CET - saturday 12:00am CET and last and final round saturday 12:00am - monday 12:00am CET.

The clan leaders of c|, BTs, ONE and SL don't have to post that they don't agree only that they agree. You have time to get their agreements until 9:00am CET 12th november. If only one agreement is missing N and ! are disqualified and One and BTs, which have played their games correctly, get a second chance!

Nevertheless I would hope to see your games get played tonight(tuesday) so the second round of the finals can start on wednesday, as planned, because, I repeat it again, it was YOUR fault not to play on sunday, period.

No regards,

Mauti

Ty Mauti for your reply,
I am happy the finals will be fine-tuned next season.

The new suggestion for this final sounds excellent to me. Let's hope we get some back-up from the other finalists!

Regards.
| ! | Dutchman

After sitting down....reading these replys that have had a lot of thought and effort put into them a conclusion has been set forth.  The extension sounds like the best logical idea, for the reason being that both clans have time restraints and yadda yadda, we all know the rest.  Mauti has made a good point and idea. Now with the choice lying in the hands of the other (kind) clans, hopefully a just and fair choice will be made, and we will be able to get on with this....play ball!! 8)

Just in case you missed the point: it's up to you, ! and N, to contact the other clan leaders. I only look tomorrow if they all gave their bless to extend the finals or not.

Rgr Mauti, we got the point.
Tonight .::|N| and | ! | will try to contact the other clanleaders.
And I will not only contact them, I will also offer them my sheep if they agree on stretching the first round. Damn, I will miss her (at least in the lonely cold nights).

| ! | Dutchman

I just recieved mail from Splint.  

He wrote:  

Yo D,

I sent you an email via your forums.  Check that email.  I wanna help out with this if I can.

This is good enough for me but if anyone can get him to post that would be great.

As far as the sheep goes Dutch-  Where can i find my own?  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_bluh.gif)

Mauti- I can understand you're being upset by all this. We all are.

RE: fine-tuning for next season...the problem here was that we had no idea we would be cb-ing the euro clan until the finals actually started. The rankings went through some last minute fluctuations. One and BTs had both made tentative plans to cb on sunday as you suggest. N did not, as no one thought the cb would be N vs. Core.

Fine tuning might be to allow the full weekend for the round, not just one night- the first night, when the matchups cant be planned in advance

I found mine in a motel. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/banana.gif)

| ! | Dutchman

PS: Mauti, can we a have a sheep emoticon plzzzzz?

I accept this.  Why not extend it if there are timezone issues?  ::)

hey,

i heard that it?s Veterans day or so in USA today... means no work/school for almost all there. why can?t this cb be played this evening? are there any problems too? then it can all continue as it was planned... -> 2nd round begins wednesday. and all would be happy!


i disagree with extending the finals to 23rd november... that?s way too long in my eyes. a lot of clans are waiting for the next season to start... only cuz of this problem, what could be solved much easier if both coth clans would be more willing to compromise!



there is the default time for the cb?s between EUR and US clans... why didnt u play to that times? i saw | ! | online every finals day online to the default cb time so far... .::|N| was never online to that time. i was online and watched it...
to sunday: i have a chatlog of Flies and Noto where he says that N couldnt cb sunday and the whole week till next weekend at the default times... so it?s not Core?s fault i think, they were online when it was time.


i have to disagree with this as well... it?d be too hard against the Core clan in my eyes. they were online to the set default times and now they could get punished for that? thats simply not right i say. for me it seems that N are somehow not willing to compromise...


i think last chance is this evening 22:30 GMT. c?mon! play the games and let the finals continue guys!

good luck,[/color]

z][t-Civic


P.S.: don?t take anything offensive in this post plz... i?m just trying to say my opinion and to solve this issue. :)

This is [one] Revolt...I am replying in regards to the acceptance of the cb final extension.....I would agree, but i can not due to the fact, that we too had scheduling problems..yet we worked it out....the rush of cb twice in two days, did not allow us to get every member from the [one] clan into a finals match as we desired...if this extension is passed...we too should have the same freedoms to schedule a 2 hour cb ..in a week...like ...N and !////

I never really answer these things but...some people were speaking on our behalf....so i had to..

Revolt

 :-[ ::)

I'm sorry, but this is a whole lotta bull flying around in here.

First, with all due respect to Network and Core: When it was looking like we would be getting core in the first round early last week, I started talking with Flies as early as LAST TUESDAY about scheduling first round matches. When it was up in the air again at the end of the week, I had  times set up with both Flies AND Splinter by Friday pm. Was anybody else looking ahead just a few days on this? Its not rocket science.

You might say, 'well, thats all well and good, but I can't structure my life around the BL and I have other things to do...' sure, we all do. But as far as I am concerned, being in the BL is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT from being in an adult basketball league, or on a soccer club, or playing for your high school football team. If you sign up to play, you DO rearrange your life to a certain extent. You enter a clan in the BL, you have a responsibility to your clanmates and all the other clans as well. If you can't manage to field a squad for the ONLY mandated matches the whole season that allow 3 days to play 3 matches, then maybe you shouldnt have your clan in the BL. Try this extension crap in any other competitive team sport environmnet.

'I'm sorry, but our Goalie is tied up this weekend- his wife is having a baby... could we reschedule our qualifying match?'

Guess what? The second string goalie gets the start.

Put in the second string.

Arrrrrr, Here be my 2 cents matey.
This be the opinion of me and not me clan.  Okay, enough pirate.

I see the validity of the *Damn league based on competition of the best clans who earned the spot to be there.  Sure there was a finals schedule and delaying it would cause much delay in next season, but would a clan like BTs want to be reinstated to the finals on a technicality.  I say no.  What if we went on to win?  It would be considered a tainted title based on a technicality.  Would anyone really want a title like that? So that point I do not agree with.

I also feel that true, a schedule is a schedule, times were set, but this league is different from other things like sports or what not.  Most sports are played within a certain area where everyone is on the same time zone.  Plus, the point of this league is to gain respect within the battle community.  It would cheapen whoever would win this season if all teams are not allowed to play.  I think some of the top clans feel this too and wouldn't want the finals to carry on this way.

At the very least, force them into the one long battle or a forfeit of the first 2 of 3 CBs and make them play a 1 game match, winner take all. This is to be done within a 2 day extension, with as many players can show up.  Then force a strict hand down on all teams to play or forfeit with the forwarning.

Well, that may be 3 cents worth.  BTw, dutchy, can my donkey meet your sheep.

Yeah, I think the 1 CB thing would actually be a pretty good idea, though it would throw off the points system in the finals.....anyone have a solution to get around this? ???

Alright then the normal shedule continues. ! and N you gonna have to fight tonight at the given time. If only one clan should appear rule number 29 will apply.

Bye,

Mauti

OK, this time the reply button took 18 clicks.  Somethings messed up as shit here, and its almost a waste of my time to post.</rant>

Civic: I wish that were true man.  But the days of getting off work or school for vets day are gone.  Sux if you ask me, I'm the type to appreciate what they did.

Gambit: Does your clan have a second string which can cb at 230 pm your time during a weekday?  I need say no more.

Flies: By even retyping that crap about "default times" which you know are in the middle of our workdays is a total slap in the face.  If I never hear it again it will be too soon.  Do everyone a favor and forget they exist/existed.

Mauti: Honestly, I always bought in to you.  You seemed the reason in all the madness.  But dude, didn't you think before writing the finals proceedures this season?  Or is it that you just don't care about the US west coast players period?  If that is the case, say so, and they can move on knowing that here they will simply always get the short end of the stick.

Gentlemen, (term used loosely for some) I'm really trying right now.  I can meet a euro schedule, but only on certain days when my classes permit.  We had 6+ guys on last night, at 7pm (1900) EST.  Thats both early for us, and in greater numbers.  Anyone who claims we aren't trying is wrong.  Nor has the core been less of a problem than we.


Defense rests, your honor.

point of fact:

N was on at the appointed time on Sunday. Core had not agreed to cb at this time, but N was there anyway. Core was not on.

Core was on at the appointed time on Monday. Network had not agreed to cb at this time. N was not on.

The rules state one cb per day at the set time. Why is yesterday different from sunday?

Truth is, there has never been an agreement on a time, except that both teams agreed to try and extend the deadline. This has failed, apparently.

N has been flaming this thread up, true. But we have also been doing our best to resolve this. Don't act like it's one-sided. The only one-sided issue is that the rules favor euro-times over US times. No wonder, I guess, since they were written in europe.

Any sports league I have been involved in as an adult happened at a set time on a set day. It's easy to schedule around playing softball for an hour every sunday between 9am and 1pm. The playoffs stick to that same schedule, usually. By your logic, that this is "just like any other league" N should have expected to log in at our usual time and play the playoffs, right? Point is, this ain't like other activities, where there is a TEN hour differential between some of the players. No one is playing at their normal time, no matter when it is. We need some flexibilty here to make it work. Sounds like sour grapes to me, ONE. Sorry you lost and all, but you're going to pin it on us? C'mon.

Well, for what it's worth I was all for allowing a time extension.  The planning of the finals with the default times set were pretty short sighted, and N is being unjustly penalized for it.  

Well said Gambit....you did indeed have a schedule worked out with Flies for us to do 2 cbs on Sunday. When Collective overtook !, Luckily you also had an itinerary set with collective (even though you couldnt make the second cb.)

Either way, we did not have all of our players available for our first round cb's but we had to procede within the timeframes laid out in the rules.

I would hope that the finals could procede as scheduled and all the clans that deserve to play, get to play.

I have just one question...
WHERE IS THE LOOOVE!?

Ghoulio

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/uzi.gif) ::)

hey you guys i was just fuckin with ya....extention is cool.....i just wanted to see how pissed everyone got...anyways...if it is an extention i agree,,,,,a 16 cb battle royale


that will make up for teh scheduling incident

gl ..you guys
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/beer.gif)

is this for real? was that really revolt?

I say you guys just get it over with tongiht and stop fighting. gl teams

 :-[  ::)

 :P

I think the problem for N, swift, is that tonight, is actually 2:30pm for their guys on the west coast, which places them squarely at work.  But talking to revolt, it seems that he has agreed to allow for the extention, which i think brings us up to all 4 clans agreeing.

OH MY WORD.... TY SPLINTER!!!

:o someone finally got the message... :o

wub you splin!

yes this is revolt...yes i agree....to extention....gl to you both....
i just wanted to see ya sweat a lil.....

but make sure its a 16cb match.....hehe

Mauti ...

FahQ2 although a beautiful man, is not the leader of BTs.

i think the agreement of the clanleaders doesnt count anymore...
mauti has spoken!
it has to be played this evening at the default time...

z][t-Civic

What are you going on about civic, its not even "tomorrow" yet. An now all the leaders have given a go. Mauti made that statement after revolt had played is oh-so hilarious joke on us   :D

Why dont you let the man speak for himself. Certanly you can wait for a new season a couple more days.

Civic-

I think a more suitable quote for your profile should read:  "Why be a LEADER, when its easier to be a FOLLOWER!" ;D

Just a thought... No harm intended... ;)

Where is the BTs clanleader stating that they are ok with it.

I see a yes from:
SL
c|
One

We need 1 more. Bts

| ! | Dutchman

This really blows, if the core and network are booted off that eliminates 40% of our finals competition, so we'll never know where we stand this season against 40% of the finalists.  That is just lame the way I see it, I don't wanna see anything in the finals decided by forfeit.  What an unsatisfying way to close the season, we'll never truly know who deserved to take 1st in the finals. Secondly I notice BTs has won more games than the one clan, ranking them higer, therefore BTs would be in position to play yet another cb round against us, and the collective another round against [one].  Just a repeat of the first round of finals, that is so annoying.  So if we can't reach consensus as it appears we can't, and the core and network drop out, then at least set it to BTs plays the collective and we play the one clan.

Overall this situation sucks.

hey,


joka... doesnt matter if all clanleader agreed or not. mauti?s last post counts and that?s it i think. why wait till tomorrow when this cb has to be played today at the default time?


diesel... that what mauti said is what i think too, like i said in my post earlier in this thread. it?s more that he agreed with my opinion in his last post. it has to be played today... and 2nd round of finals can start tomorrow... as planned.

i just wanted to remind u that he made a new decision after the "clanleader agreement possibility" one and that this counts now.

and: i?m not a "follower"... i just respect his decisions, what u should do too![/color] :)

z][t-Civic

Mauti made his decision because Revolt at first said he was against it.  Revolt has since changed his mind.  They are not independent of each other.  Mauti had thought that the clan agreement possibility had failed.  Now it is clear that it has not failed.  

Don't you want to see a fair Finals take place?

i'm pretty sure you guys have to do it tonight.

our agreement doesn't matter. the CB must be played tonight. winner takes 2 wins. if we did agree this would drag on even longer then it has. the best thing is to play the CB ASAP. if N and ! don't like the super big CB it is their fault they did not CB 1 per day.

however,if eight asks me i'll ask him not to agree.

you knew the rules when you signed up for the league. there needs to be a bottomline somewhere, you can't just keep pedalling backwards spiralling falling stumbling meandering wandering dragging sentences on. we have euro members they managed to get on and CB with us.

if N gets less then 6 wins in tonight (TUESDAY JOKA!!! TODAY is tomorrow!!!) we would get the wild card automatically (more wins, higher seed) so that is the outcome we want most.

if they can't CB within the time they all knew about well ahead of time then IMO (NOT MY CLAN"s opinion) a forfeit is a reasonable solution (or Core advancing because of higher seeding). all this he said she said is bs.

no.

whats bs is the schedule which favors euro clans over us clans, while being fair to NEITHER.

whats bs is a clan leader taking what has been the hottest topic of BL for several days, with a deadline fast approaching, and make a 'just kidding' post which turns the whole thing upside-down again. mauti posted after revolt's post, in response to it. BTs probably didnt bother to respond after the initiative had failed because of revolt's post. we had a solution working there for a few hours, screwed up by someone who now says he was 'just kidding'

whats also bs is blaming it on core and N. or saying that N is not cooperating.

a strict interpretation of the rules would hold the score at 1-1 right now, each team having forfeit one cb. N was there on sunday, Core was there yesterday.

We'll see what happens today. I have kids to feed and get to bed. Can't really "schedule" around that. Be on later maybe.

hey soc,

like i wrote in an earlier post... i have a chatlog from Flies talking to Noto where he says that N cant cb on sunday. that?s why Core hasnt been online.

however... i can see the cb "| ! | vs .::|N|" running right now... i hope the discussion is over with that.

z][t-Civic

I sincerely doubt it Civic.  Core is the highest ranking seed that still has a chance to lose, meaning that even if they lose to N, they still advance to the next round.  They will either play c| or SL, and i'm sure we'll find ourselves right back in this all again.

i just say: default times...

.::|N| had problems with em too, but now finally the cb is running after all these discussions. so why can?t it work the same with c| and SL? one cb each day, like it is written in the rules. no need to make a "best of 16"... ;) :)

z][t-Civic

**sigh**

Civic, the default times are the problem.  They were written with very little consideration to the US clans.  If c| had to play core on wednesday, thursday, or friday, it would be absolutely impossible.  75% of c| is west coast, making the default time 2:30 pm.  I don't understand why you don't see the issue with this.  People have jobs, they physically cannot be infront of their computers at home playing a video game.  Of our east coasters even the 5:30pm start time is too early.  Jobs in the US don't all start at 9am and end at 5pm.  

I would trade to have the Euro times in an instant.  10:30pm, sure, at least that is possible.  I'd gladly deal with being a little tired the next day.

Well I have a problem with the forfeits.

I don't believe they should be recorded as 6-0 wins. That would mean the losing clan gained an advantage by breaking the rules and that definetly isn't right.

The rule is one CB a day so things like this don't happen I assume.

I hope you understand what I am saying.

By doing this it guarantee's them a spot in the 2nd round.

They should have to play all CB's today or make the first 2 days null.

We need more time (weekends) to do these finals games.  I can not believe what has happend here.  As if this issue was not forseen.

Just wanted to let everyone know that our problem with the default times is over, but everyone else's has juts begun.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  Hey Flies, eat shit and die.

ESD FOREVER!

Funny.....oh well its all over now....hopefully as things progress things will get much better, and these conlficts will come to a end or at least die down.  GG's i guess.  Later 4 now!!

I HOPE AND I REALLY HOPE THE REST OF THE CBS DONT GO AS BAD AS OURS DID I CALL IT TOTAL...

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

FUCKING CB AT 2:30 PM MY TIME I WAS AT WORK THEN FINALLY GET HOME AND FIND THE LAG JUST HORRIBLE 210 PING FROM FLIES AND 250 PING FROM DAMN SERVER

FUCKING BULLSHIT

YOU WANNA KNOW SOME THING FUNNY EVERY ONE OF THE CORE HAD 4 GREEN BARS  IN FLIES ROOM AND DAMN SERVER.

ALL FOUR OF OUR PLAYERS HAD 1 3 BARS
I HAD A SOLID 2 BARS AND LAGG LAGG LAGG WE DIDNT AGREE COULDNT FIND ANOTHER SERVER THEY REFUSED TO GO BACK TO ARAMARTHS SERVER WITCH WAS LAGLESS FOR ALL NO WE HAD TO PLAY IN A EURO SERVER TO GIVE THEM AN ADVANTAGE

FUCKING BULLSHIT

AS FOR MAUTI I CALL FOR A RECOUNT YOUR MODERATORS CHANGE THERE MIND  AS FAST I WIPE MY ASS.  COMPLETE AND UDDER BULLSHIT CALLING THERE MAUTI WHAT A WAY TO HOST SOME BATTLE LEAGUE GAMES YOUR RULINGS ARE INCONSTISTANT AND ONLY FAIR TO THE EURO CLANS NICE ISNT IT. YOU CAN TAKE YOUR LEAGUE AND SHOVE IT.

FUCKING BULLSHIT

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

You are correct Flies... This will be ending.

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  I didn't mean the thread will be ending.  This thread rocks.  I hope it goes on for days.

P.S.S.  Eat shit and die.

Though i will agree there has been alot of stress on these forums of late.  Flies i think you need to take a good hard look at your posts.  Look at them from your view, then look at them from the other persons view.  Then look at the content of the thread, the info you know, and then what really got posted.  That should explain the weirdness your feeling from the "North Amarican's".   Maybe when you talk to other members about setting up times and sharing ideas, you should start by not talking down to them and trying to over power them by twisting facts in your favor.


Yes he's talking about me.  He get's out of crushing N only to start bugging me about agreeable times.  Sorry Flies, i need some down time from the last 2 nasty threads.  Besides we JUST found out we MIGHT face you later on in the finals.  You think we have had time to all talk about good cb times already?  

I think you take all of this to heart Flies, a little to much.  It shows in your writing.  I know you think your working with us on issues, but when i read them, it sounds more like your fighing a thread cb and are trying everything to please the general public and lift you and your clan up to this higher place, while at the same time bashing another down.

I know you think we all "hate" you, but that's not the case...yet.  

i just want to say flies....getta life, im glad its over in a sense that I (we) dont have to deal with this crap anymore

oh ya....and as far as ur lil bullshit comments go about the cb being shitty? easy?, with all the comments u claim are being made at you, you need to watch ur mouth, and im sorry you didnt get a boner over it all and u didnt piss ur pants u were so exicted. i feel like i let you down flies......

Dr. NO was right take a long hard look at the post u made and put urself in our shoes, fair? i dont think so. A lot of changed need to be made and im hopfull they will be come next season....Good luck to the rest of the clans in the Playoffs may the best clan win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   | ! | E.S.D  8)

I personally think you have been overstepping normal decent limit of how to reply in threads, as normal player. I think I would pad you on your shoulder and ask you to? hold back a bit, if you were in my clan.

Normal Player????, granted im not Leader of .::|N| or Admin of a forum but im no normal player.  I was a leader of many (3) lol (guess not that many) other clans and i do wanna say that i feel i have just as much say about the subject matter as others do.  Im not posting here to piss you off or start shit between you and i, im coming here, to state my point of view on the matter.  I i feel that some of the statements that came outta your mouth were bogus, im not exactly quite sure wut "North Americans" were talkin crap about you, but as for as i go, i didnt appreciate some of the comments you made about the cb 1. and 2. my teammates.  ill i saw in the earlier posts was complaining about us and wut we didnt do or did do. So im simply coming here to express my feeling on the matter, wether u like it or not.  Im not gonna sit back & HOLD BACK A BIT as you say. In no way do you have a right in telling me what i SHOULD do, i make those choices thanx ne way.
       E.S.D  ::)

Well this certanly got out of hand  :(
Glad to be in the 2nd round though.

P.S. Noto eat a four course dinner and live!!

I still wanted to play against Joka and Archer.  Maybe this weekend?

 ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D    ;D  

Flies, I have nothing against you or your precious crew but there is a point in this. You seem to pride yourself in acting more mature than other clans, and granted, you do. But as a fellow player that I don't think you hold a grudge again, I would like to point out that the "sublime" insults of yours are the same kind you encounter from 13 year old girls. The way this thread looked to me it was Flies vs N... One person vs a clan. Is this really right? I agree that N acted like assholes, but please flies, don't let your threads extend to this!
Otherwise, I am 100% behind you!

Acri, I think you missed the boat here buddy.  You are 100% behind what?  This hollow shell of a person that manipulates what he can?  I don't know if you realized this or not Acri, but this thread had to do with Flies acting like an ass and making his clan look like asses as well.  The issue here was the time frame in which finals had to be played, and how completely unfair and biased the decisions are in concerns to this thread.  So what are you 100% behind then?  American bashing, as Flies has done? Or maybe you think it's fair to play finals during the day?  maybe you like the fact that US players play at 2pm on a solemn day in our culture while you fucking euros gently waltz in around 10pm?  Whatever it is your are behind Acri, make it clear, or shut the fuck up.

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  To all future replies to this thread.  Make a point.  Don't just hop on the Euro band wagon and donate your two precious cents.  Keep that money and put it towards a server that fucking works.

Noto, plz don't make this worse than it allready is.

You guys lost. Take it as a man. Don't try this bs. There has been enough.

| ! | Dutchman

I certainly hope that you aren't blind enough to judge the entire clan equally with that remark.  Some people argued for what they thought was fair treatment in this league, using reasonable arguements, and I would point out that they were shot down.  I'm not going to claim that all Ns are angels, thats a goshdarned fing lie.  However, you are little better if you judge everyone in the clan the same way.

As a possible solution, perhaps a rotating start time could be instituted- sort of like a home-and-home thing. Make 2230 the default start time, but tie it to a time zone of each clan's player base. So Euro clans could have their 2230 start one day and then next day US clan could have a 2230 start based on their time. Sure, it would be rough having to get up and jump into a cb at 0430 or 0730... but is that any worse than being expected to take a half-day off work or school? Third cb start time could be determined by leader in games won in first two matches, or the trailer if that's preferrable. A tie-breaker would be needed...

I think hosts would probably need to be rotated as well. It seems all to easy for one clan to force the issue and get a host favorable to them.

Thank God OZ hasn't gotten into the mix yet!

The perceived European bias in the 'default' times (as well as other aspects of the BL) is unfortunate but be real everybody- the real problem is the time differences and the connection issues. Time issues played a big part in [one] splitting apart this season- our intercontinental bruthas just never saw most of the US guys and it killed our cameraderie.

If there is a bias in the structure of the BL, its probably just Mauti and Co. TRYING to do the right thing with limited time and a lot of real-life pressures forcing them to make quick decisions; some of them work... some of them don't. Of course these decisions are made from a European perspective... he's in Europe, for crissake!

After 2 seasons participating in the BL, my impression is that Mauti is more than willing to listen to constructive criticism and attempts to make corrections when problems arise. The restructuring of the scoring system seems to have been quite effective and other issues (clan-hoppers, for instance) were dealt with as they came up. Scheduling cb's and agreeing on hosts with Euro clans has always been problematic and no matter what gets decided out of this, the best solution will be one that leaves everyone pretty much equally unhappy.

Flies, pretty prose and mixed metaphors aside, most of what you have contributed in this thread has been more along the lines of putting out fires with gasoline than any real effort to find a solution. If the effort is to raise the level of discourse, you might want to rethink your current strategy.  

And to Aramarth, as I sit here looking at the calendar I made after polling all [one]'s members the week before the finals, I can tell you that yes, we would have been able to field a squad on Monday at 1430 PST if we needed to.     ;D

The default times have nothing to do with me being european Gambit - they base on my experience when I play on GameRanger against US players and when they log on and of course it is a compromise between US and EURO players. 10:30pm GMT is for most european 11:30pm CET except for those few who live in portugal or in the UK.

However I have already found a solution for season 6 without extending the 9day final time period: Only the best 4 proceed into the finals and each round will be completly played on the weekend. So even US - EUR clans should be able to play at decent times.

Bye,

Mauti

Another clan experiencing another Huge issue that needed to be dealt with accordingly before the season started.  None of the small things were taken into consideration.  Maybe if more input from the US players applied these things wouldnt have never happened.  


Too little too late Mauti...

congratulations on your glorious comeback flies in overtaking me for the most disliked and conflict involved person on gr.  Believe it or not, the disputes don't find you flies, you've earned this title, bravo! bravo! I love it, i absolutely love it, here we have Flies who suggests to my clan mates to kick me out of SL~ because I will do more harm than good to the clan through my highly disreputable character, being grilled for his manipulative, narrow minded character and general annoyance.  

I think you're biggest problem flies, is that you create issues, then disregard counterarguments, despite their validity, and just trudge on down your narrow minded path; it's never a debate with you flies, I think somebody needs to take up sign language, because unless somebody can find another way to talk some sense into a deaf man flies is fucked.

LOL fridge!!@

That is what we have been saying all along. ;D

WOOT!

All flaming posts from this point on will be deleted in this thread. Use this thread for scheduling, not for flaming.

But... But... I really do not think anyone is going to use this thread for scheduling.  Do you?  Come on Haz, think about it.  I know you're only 15 or so, but you're a smart guy.  There are 6 pages of much needed out pouring of agression.  People are just getting things off their chest.  Personally, I would let this stay a Flame post and let it simmer away.  If you just delete the agressions of people who need an outlet, they will only find another way to do so, and possibly in another thread.

If there needs to be a thread about finals scheduling for any future rounds, I'm sure those clans will post a new thread.  I highly doubt they will find any use of the one here.  Trust me Haz, people need this stuff.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

.::|N| Noto

Keep the flaming to a minimum while at the same time relate it to the thread.

Love,

Hazard ;)

So, ! refused to play on a Network server while Network agreed to playing on the ! server, but then went to the DAMN server which also is euro? Thats bs if true. The euros need to get the same lag we americans get on their servers when playing.

Apologies to the N clan. Of course I don't mean the whole clan.

Noto, yes, I do kind of agree in america-bashing. Why? This is why:

This is a European ladder. It is run by europeans. The way I see it, americans are more than welcome to play, but I don't really like that Europeans get treated like a minority. The way it seems in this forum, european clans are trouble. Mauti has done his best to make this work. He is not ignoring americans nor is it intentionally optimized for europeans. Also Noto, my "1oo%" comment was to flies, and not to you. Don't try to start a flame war thx. I think you were out of line. That is my opinion and nothing I will discuss further in a forum. Contact me in GR if you must.

w00t ME TOO FRIDGE  ;D

Wow... In regards to all of the U.S. and North American Players out there, this completely sums up what this ladder is all about.  Acri, I do not know if you realize this, but the majority of the players are U.S.  The majority of the higher ranked clans are U.S.  The U.S. and Canadian teams help this Battle League to thrive.  Imagine if all of the North American players were to leave.  Where would the *DAMN Battle League be?  Would it still be here, or would it fold since the majority of it's players have left.

Don't be so quick to speak for *DAMN or the Battle League.  If you want the North Americans to leave, you might just get that.

.::|N| Noto

okay then. the thread is open again. i just wanted to prevent more of this argueing and flaming.
why can?t you just play your games? every finals round has one weekend day, if u have problems to play in week.
dont?s start a US vs EUR discussion now plz, because the rules are not ignoring u.s. clans nor are intentionally made for euro clans.
the subject of this thread is to schedule the cbs between the clans participating in the finals.
like i said, there is one weekend day in every round of finals, use this day if u have problems with the default time in week.
the final cb N vs Core has been played and there should be no more discussions about that...
like mauti said, there will be improved finals next season with every round on a weekend. no more problems with work/school.

no more flaming plz. stay on topic! :)


z][t-Civic


p.s.: nobody wants the north americans to leave noto.

Ok, WHO started this rumor?

We started on Flies host, which was ok by them. After 4 games we went to aramath's host which was fine by us (their server had a 200 ping, but hey its west coast, you see us whine?). Then after 4 games we went back to Flies host. At that moment N was behind 5-2-1.
And you know what happened Crypt? Now, they refused it! The first time they played it, now they refused it.

So we suggested an other euro server (it was our turn to host remember?), the dedicated DAMN server. It's the server announced in another thread to be used by finalists. A neutral server. They said it was even worse. And all of a sudden they picked Flies server again.
Ask Dr. NO...he was there to help us all out with the dedicated server.
It was a fair cb, we switched host each 4 games.

So whoever it is, don't spread fucking lies to make us look bad. Take your loss and stop the fucking whining.

I have tried my best to be nice to certain people, but this all has turned into an anti-Flies, anti Core, anti-Mauti, anti-DAMN BattleLeague and anti-Euro thread. That's making me sick.

At least show some respect for Mauti, Elan and the rest who are keeping this League running. Got some constructive comments? Go ahead, they DO listen.
If you keep whining, leave the League and try to start your own li'l one.
Let's see how YOU can deal with all the comments, whining and bitching. You wouldn't last one lousy season.

Dutchman out.

Well.....someone has there panties in a bundle.... :)
This thread wasnt made to be a ANTI anyone Dutch, from reading all the posts and whatnot, it was made more for the fact of extending the finals, although some people had some things they felt needed to be expressed and used this certian thread to do so.

Basically it goes down like this.......As show within the last couple of posts, There are people that dont like euro servers or people for that matter, as well as people that arent happy with American servers and/or people. With what is hopefully gonna happen next season, this situation will be resolved and all the school girl fighting can come to an end....
                                                  Venom, out

Noto, read my posts more thoroughly before you comment. I did never express any wish to have americans out of the ladder nor did I try to speak for *DAMN. It seems to me you are very determined to start a fight here, so why don't you contact me in GameRanger? I stand firm on my point that I don't like Europeans being thought upon as trouble. Yes, the majority is american, but does that mean we Europeans don't have the right to be in the finals? Terms like "fucking Euro-lag" is not really the nicest way to embrace your opponents, now is it? I will once again point out that I never expressed any wish for the americans to leave the ladder, but I think it is sad that the american BTL ladder wasn't more popular. If it had been, perhaps the americans would be treated better? I can agree that the time zone rules are in fact a bit unfair, but the way I see it, the vast majority of players are well under 18 years old, meaning they have a better shot at playing the game at 3 PM than 3 AM. Besides, Mauti says he has already got a solution for next season. The default times are the same, still, but during weekends. What more can you ask?
I await your flaming with great anticipation Noto. I wonder what I am gonna be... "gay", "asshole"? I can hardly wait.

                                                                  Cheers, Acri

Whoa I can't believe what I have to read, especially what few N players wrote.

I won't answer hate, unreasonend racism, and anger with the same, I just repost the facts that have lead to this, from the distance viewed, small issue.

N was unable to play on a sunday where nobody would have time troubles but somehow you couldn't play and because you failed to play everyone should wait for you!? Because you can't play by the rules while all others can!? That's simply not how it works. Further the times are made to be fair for everyone. Playing at 11:30pm CET isn't that fun while you could play at 2:30pm PST on a sunday afternoon.

Diesel, Noto and everyone else that are posting plain wrong and stupid things: I don't earn money with N playing in the league contrary it only cost me nerves that you are part of the *DAMN Battle League and if you really think the way you are posting I really recommend and wish me that N leaves this league. Search another league where you can make others responsible for your own faults. Noto when the league started in July 2000 we were 7 clans - 2 european and 5 US clans and it was fun. It was small but fun and if the only thing you can do is to complain it's simply not the right place for you. Further if you really think that I and the BL are discriminating US clans I can't help you anymore and it only shows you as racists. On a side note the world is larger than US borders go.

Well if you didn't mean the posts the way you wrote them you are welcome to participate in season 6 otherwise please leave.

Mauti

Oh, my bad, I thought I saw a post where it said both hosts for the game were euro, truly sorry. :)

Hey dutch, who told you I was west coast?  I'm in Virginia, which is pretty close to Washington DC, and quite east coast.

I regret how all this has turned out.  Sadly it doesn't matter that I'm not part of the problem, I still have to be here for the ride.  I just hope that I don't see either side getting righteous about this.  Everyone has said a bunch of crap, and the most recent posts arent getting any better.

Mauti is no angel.  I've had well-written arguements thrown back in my face as if they weren't read by this guy.  He listens?  Only in my dreams.  Halfway through this issue he shot down the plea for an extension and created a situation in which the cb was set to be an ugly display of disrespect before it began.  His last post is an open flame of his own.

A good deal of posts in here were just a bunch of smack, but since the cb the Ns in question have meant ever word of it.  This has gone beyond so far that it truly cannot ever heal.  They wouldn't play in this league again if they were paid to do so.

So heres the point.  The vocal Ns feel they were totally slighted by the rules and rulings of the mods in this battle league.  The mods think they have only done their best.  What do these two things mean?

Mauti, there isnt any racism here, thats the wrong term. What would you have said if you had a rule saying you had to cb at 1430 waved in your face endlessly? I mean seriously: ??? Hows that help? Maybe made you feel better..
Crypt and others (name specified only because its in recent memory), the lack of the facts in posts just made the issue hotter.
Civic and mods in general, repeating an unpopular ruling that mauti made just turned you into a guy rubbing dirt in a wound.  Yes, we know that the rule is 1430 west coast time!  The point of the posts was explaining the rules' failure, not disputing its existance!  Yeah repeat it a few more times for the benefit of angering everyone. Sure made you feel good to shout the rules right?
Flies, you tried to get a cb time, you thought you were doing your part, but by publicly bashing the Ns as if they didn't try caused real resentment. You probably enjoyed it.
Billy, I know this was frustrating, but the caps lock and hot-under-the-collar is a large part of the problem. You came away feeling great after your posts.
Noto, you got a huge kick out of your new ESD motto, and thats just dandy for you, but in the realm of a forum meant to solve the problem, you changed the topic from solution to flamewar.  You knew it wasnt nice in the back of your mind, but it felt good to do it anyway.

I could go on.  But I won't, because I'm trying to avoid the things I'm posting about.  Everyone could learn a thing or two from deciding against what feels good, in favor of what is civilized.

Now I'm sure to be shouted at by everyone involved, and probably kicked out of my clan.  But this time, this single post in a thread of lies and hatred, is the right thing to do- so I dont care what happens now.  I have a grim sense of purpose, but I sure don't feel good.

Mauti -

First off, I would like to say that I have defended the *DAMN BL on many occasions.  I have helped to heal the "wounds" between clans.  I have helped with the rules by challenging them, following them strictly, and rewriting them.  I have helped to promote new clans when others were dying off.  I have given suggestion and arguement for how to improve this league, while all the time congratulating it.  I have even defended you at times when people looked for someone to blame.  Your callous post towards Diesel and myself shows the inequities that this league seemingly represents.  Acri seemed to sum it up best.  As much as non-Eruopean players are welcomed (mostly because they are needed for the league to survive), they are also misrepresented and underrepresented in a league that is more or less, European.  Here are some of my thoughts on what you have recently said.


I'm sure the use of the word racism is merely a translation issue.  I know I am not a racist, nor are the members of The .::|N|etwork.  Have words been said that point towards an anti-Euro persuasion? Yes, they have.  How were they stated though?  They were stated in the manner that the time frame rules that were laid out were not fair to non-European clans.  We had nothing against | ! | or any other European clan until an anti-American feeling was erupting.  We were challenging an unfair rule.  Funny how many of the threads that have appeared in this battle league have revolved around unfair rules, unfair rulings, indecisive rulings, and poorly written, ambiguous rules.


Do you know why we were not able to play on Sunday?  It was because the script that was written for this league had The .::|N|etwork going against The Co||ective, not against the Core.  We tried to contact members, but were unsuccessful.  Our members did come online in time for the 5:30pm EST start time, even though they were unaware of who our new opponents were.  Also, The .::|N|etwork has played by every rule that has been written, whether it was a clear rule or a porrly worded rule.  Ask any clan we have ever gone against.  We stick to the rules like Flies on shit. (that was a pun... ;D)



Why do you think we are posting the things that we post, Mauti?  Why do you think members from other clans have also posted in our defense?  Why do you think some of your own moderators have posted in our defense?  Perhaps we did not approach this issue in the most proper way, but we shouldn't be chastized for challenging a rule.  Rules were written by people, and they can be changed by people.  If The .::|N|etwork were to leave this league, it would be because of issues that were not only ignored, but more for issues that were discussed, and then blatantly disragarded.


The entire time The .::|N|etwork has been a aprt of this league, we have strived to play by the league's rules.  It was only when there was a rule that needed to be challenged did we point out the faults of others.  I fault the writing of the rules, and its poor coincidence with the start of finals, not the league as a whole.


People of this world are naturally complainers.  We generally try to improve on what we build and create by looking inwards, and then trying to find a better way of doing it.  When you are in life, you will find yourself criticizing more than complimenting at times.  We usually fail to improve by giving ourselves a pat on the back.  I felt as a member of this league, it is my duty, and my right, to point out where improvements can be made.  I think that every member should have this freedom.  I have always pointed what i do not like, AND what I do like when it has come to the BL.  I publicly applauded *DAMN's new scoring system and website scripting and it's addition of two capable moderators; Civic & Dr. NO.


I do not feel that you, or the BL, are discriminating against anyone.  I do feel that the rules in regards to time frames of playing in the finals have drastically given favor to European clans.  Only after quite a bit of American bashing did I feel that this league was representing something more than ignorance, but prejudice.


I still thank God to this day that [OZ] was not in finals.  I can only imagine the what rules would have been created there.  Don't forget Mauti, you and your moderators only represent Europe and North America.  Do not lecture to me about the borders of the world.  As far as I'm concerned, your league misrepresents anyone outside of Europe and North America completely.


I mean everything I post, with the knowledge that I have had at the time of posting.  I you are so greatly offended by The .::|N|etwork and feel that we are disturbing this league and the way it is being run, then do not ask us to leave.  Rather, publicly ban us from your league.  It is all we ask if you choose to make such a decision.

.::|N| Noto

I think you are all overreacting. It started by N being pissed off by the BL being falsely represented by people posting things like "europeans run this ladder, but your welcome to play." Who are they to talk for the people that run the ladder? That was the spark to this conflict. Majority of the BL mods are North Americans, not to mention that every member of this BL had a say in the forming of the rules of this season. Were European opinions taken more seriously in the discussion? Hell no. Everyone's idea's were respected(for the most part) and we formed the rules. You can look at us as  tyrants, or you can look at us as your best shot at change and we both know the best way to convince someone of something is not to flame the hell out of them. Most of the people flaming here are grown men. Act like it! Why start another league when we have one established here? Why put gamer vs. gamer? We can accomplish something here. We can progress if everyone is willing to chill out and discuss their views in a respectful way.

Hazard  

Hazard -

You are misinformed on a few issues.  Also, there was more to this issue than posts made public here.


Actually, this all started off because of an unfair rule.  The rule that you claim helped to create.  The .::|N|etwork never posted that Europeans run this ladder.  That was Acri, which is a Euro.  He said this was a Euro league that was run by Euros, and that Americans are welcome to play on it.  You have been misinformed, or have misread previous posts.


Hazard = 15 yrs old = Does not play in an active clan, nor plays GhR actively.
Infection = 15 yrs old = Does not play in an active clan, nor plays GhR actively.
VooDoo = Mostly only respected by his own clan members.  Many active GhR players rarely listen to him, let alone take what he says as an "Admin" ruling.
Dr. NO = A very fair and impartial Admin in my eyes.  I do not believe he has been an admin very long though.

Now, out of those 4 admins, are you telling me all had a say in the rules?  Haz, the majority of the rules have been the same for quite a few seasons.  Very little was added or changed for Season 5.


The clans and gamers who are currently discussing a new league are doing for a reason.  The rate in which *DAMN deals with situations, or changes at all, is as slow as molasses at Christmas.  A new North American based league is being discussed at the .::|N|etwork (http://cwdim.com/forum) forums.  The new league is not being hosted by The .::|N|etwork, nor is the new league an anti-*DAMN or anti-euro league.  The new league is also not a replacement for the *DAMN league.  Players are welcome to play on both, although many of the clans that are involved with the new league are planning on boycotting *DAMN.  The new league welcomes all players, but it gives more choices, and also a voice to the players who play.  If anyone wants to be a part of this new league, go to the discussion and post your views of what you would like to see from a gaming league.



We cannot accomplish something here, Hazard.  The only thing that is accomplished is what the admins or Mauti say can be added or changed.  You could have 100+ players here ask for a change, and it is still up to the admins and Mauti.  Hazard, the people have no voice.  The new league is simply going to offer the means for clans to finally have a voice in how their league is run.

.::|N| Noto

I've stayed pretty clear of this thread so far, but I think I need to speak up now.  Things are going too far.

Ok, we have a problem.  The problem is, scheduling CB's between Clans in vastly different time zones.

Now, everyone shut up and read, because that was the failure that led up to all the anger here.  Nobody was listening to each other.

Face it, There is up to a 14 hour time difference just between Europe and the USA.  Don't forget those gamers out there in the Pacific.  Add to that the players from Australia, Japan and Hong Kong.  

Now, Mauti was just trying to solve a problem, and the guys from Network were just trying to solve a problem that caused.  Then things flared.

So, get over it and look to the future.  The problem still exists.  Let's solve it for next time, shall we?

Obviously 2:30pm is too early for many.  School and work do come before the battle league.  And I also agree that starting CB's after midnight sucks too.  So, what does that leave us?  Weekends.

Yes it draws it out a little, but if we are going to do a playoff, it's only fair to play them on the weekends if you must schedule them.  You have all day Saturday and Sunday to play best of 3 CB's.  You have all week to schedule it.   Morning or afternoon for the americas, late afternoon or evening for the euros.  Roll it back a few more hours if it's against asia/oz.

Simple.

Mistakes were made, words were said, but in the end, just solve the problem.  Keep it simple.

Amen to that Bucc.

I guess that's why Mauti allready suggested:


Sounds fair to me. And it also proves my point that people from the BattleLeague are actually listening to problems.

| ! | Dutchman

PS: @ Aramath: my bad, I pressumed you were from the west coast as well. Sorry.

Please Noto,
Americans are in no way underrepresented. You have a majority of the players and I think a majority of the moderators? I understand you feel as if though Mauti is the only one that can change rules. You said you could get a hundred people to agree on it and then still get effect? Well, admit Noto, that maybe you haven't been the most thoughtful poster on this thread. If everyone keeps their language clean and stays off "ESD" and actually raises the question in a serious way, much more like real politics, I am sure that you would get moderator attention, and with that, a chance to do good. Openly bashing the admins is no way to change the system. It is childish and radical.

In the real world, the world is not changed by saying "I have opinions but you won't listen and I am sure you won't even bother so I'll just whine about it *throw cobblestone*". You have to actually put your suggestion in a way that people feel motivated. Me and Civic worked over 3 hours in total yesterday solving a simple glitch issue. Why did we bother? Because we didn't hear "They glitched and now we won't play." The clan that contacted Civic wished for a temporary ruling saying this (hitherto unseen?) glitch may not be used.I

I say, take this as a good sign! If an admin like Civic is willing to spend the time from 11 PM-2 AM on watching replays and experimenting and haggling with clan leaders, I am sure there is hope for this ladder. If I am not mistaken, weren't there a new set of rules mid-season?

I also hope Noto, that you are now past your anger with me for supporting Flies. I did so because he didn't say eat shit and die. In fact, I actually do hold a grudge against Flies for personal reason, but I wouldn't go so far as to say eat shit and die in the public forum.
I also hope that you are past whatever hard feelings you had against me, as I only tried to help out. I never meant to flame nor america-bash. I rather hope to be an active part of finding the solution. In case you are still mad at me (or whatever it was) feel free to email me contact me on GameRanger.

I do not mean to beat a dead horse... but I believe I have pointed out why the US moderators have been inadequate.  If anything, I feel that we (North American players) are more misrepresented than underrepresented.


Wow... how many times have you heard this from an admin:

I agree with you, but let's wait to see what Mauti says.
I agree with you, brother admin, but what does mauti think?
Well, I know what I think, but i don't really get into the whole "rules" thing.  We need to consult Mauti.

More often than not, it is the Admins who asked for Mauti to step in, not the members.  And if you check out the last 14 rulings by Mauti, he tends to agree with whatever was posted last in a thread, and somewhat disregarding what came before it.


Whoa... when have I openly bashed an Admin? (VooDoo does not count... even then, it was still behind his back)


Acri, I know what the real world is like.  I've been living it for many years now.  The world around me is changed by those who think rationally.  Since this is a Euro league, I sometimes feel compelled to shed my "nice face" and put on my "grumpy face".  Also, in the real world, if I fuck up, I don't get paid, and then I don't eat.  If I fuck up here, Rapid just posts nonsense and some noob will say I was pwned.


I'm not mad at you.  You did what you were compelled to do.  If I was in yoru shoes, I would most likely have done the same thing.  Although, I still might have said "Eat shit & die".  It's just catchy.  If you think about it, you would actually never really say that to someone's face and mean it.  Therefore, it's somewhat amusing to do it online.  And as most Germans know, you won't die from eating shit.  There is a ton of documented porn that backs me up on this.

.::|N| Noto

You don't seem to get it Noto. This isn't a Euro league. It's a world league. Where GhR players from the Mac community all over the world come together to battle. Not only Europeans.
And don't give me that Euro-time-advantage bs, cause a) it was bad for all and b) it has been solved.

Well nm, flame me with something else....

| ! | Dutchman

Guys i am somewhat confused by this argument about *DAMN's status as a Euro or American BL ... I Don't understand the relevence to be honest. I have never ever thought as *DAMN as being one or the other for one simple reason. Q what is damn? A. A very large group of mac gamers... So if there were no mac gamers what would damn be? well nothing.. there wouldn't be a damn. As far as i am concerned A mac gamer is a mac gamer whether he's from New York, Paris, Amsterdam, Texas, London , Milan, St Petersburg, Sydney. etc. It dosn't matter!!

Fine Mauti is a guy who lives in Europe. And what? Issues have arrisen becasue of the difficulty with finding times when different clans can play in the finals? Well why can't we just sort this out??

Personally i always felt slightly that due to the vast number of US players the BL has always been a bit slanted towards the US... One little reason for this you could say is just the difficulty Euro Clans have in finding CBs! We can't all stay up into the small hours of the morning when the US guys are on in bigger numbers because well its obviouse - it has a inpact on the BL though - On a personal note i know that With Sab away this season I looked for more cb's @ earlier times as i have to sleep a little more now - but i had little success. The end result was that we couldn't play many TeamGR cbs.. and didn't get many points... and when we did get cb's i was knackered and jut wanted to sleep! But thats my problem i know.

As I have said on the other forum, Is there no way that this issue can be resolved and some new system can be inplemented into damn (like the Council/mods as talked about on the .::N forums? Peronsally i would be very upset to see this Community of Mac players be destroyed... which inadvertantly i think it would.

Thanks

Hey Dutch, I thought it was a world league too.  Are you, as a Euro player, saying that *DAMN is what I thought it was, a world league?


Things that make you say hmm...

.::|N| Noto

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif) :o(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif)

Personally Acri I think that was a very stupid thing to say. I do not feel that the location DAMN (if there is on?!) is inportant. Yes Mauti is European. Are all the members of Damn American? are all the Admins american? or the Moderators? Those who play on the DAMN BL are from across the globe, therfore it is simply A community of Mac Gamers.

Noto, do you really think that all Europeans got the same opinion on everything? Do you?

In MY opinion this is a World League. Or are you living in Europe, Noto? If so, you got a very lousy ping.

| ! | Dutchman

I always thought, and still do, it is a world league.  I was amazed that a comment like that was made from a Euro, and then not a single Euro at the time said "Hey, Acri, Shut it!  You don't speak for all of us!".  Now that BFG has said something, I can finally stop quoting Acri on that.  Although, it was funny...

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  I haven't lived in Europe for almost 15 years now.  Where else do you think I learned to pour the perfect Guinness??

OK, let's look at this example... the olympics are world wide... But if it is hosted in Atlanta... Doesn't Atlanta make sure everything works?

This is a "world championship" of course, I never intended anything else. But in MY opinion, the ladder in itself is European. Mauti is atlanta... the moderators are the olympics commitee. Woot. I sure hope that .::|N|etwork won't retire from *DAMN! We haven't even played yet :)
To all mistreated Americans: Mauti has promised that the problems will be resolved for next season. There is nothing left to argue about :) Be happy :D

No... Atlanta doesn't... remember? They had that bomb issue?

 :P

Way to keep a bitch session going.

1,000 Views and 90 posts in 2 days and 8 pages later! :o

woohoo!(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/banana.gif)

mmmmk......this is starting to get a little ridiculous..... :o

this is insane...oh well bitch and complain, its gettin to be funny now then serious....so everyone whos gonna cry bout this and not let it go and move on to the next item at had can kiss it   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/ass.gif) ;D

Good way to end the discussions VeNoM. Oh, and congratulations in advance for your 13th birthday. i'll buy you a virtual cake. ;)

Venom = pwned

Sorry this is off the subject, but when do the semi-final cbs (the three for us against the core) have to be played by?

hey,

the last cb of the 2nd round has to be played till midnight CEST. means it should start in the next 20 minutes when i check my clock. hurry up! :)

z][t-Civic

The second round is running until saturday 12:00am CET.

Good luck,

*DAMN Mauti

I think you have until 6pm EST Friday, which is in 23 minutes.  

Saturday 12:00am CET = Friday 11:00pm GMT = Friday 6:00pm EST = Friday 3:00pm PST

It is possible that Mauti meant Sunday, which would give you all of Satuday to CB as well.

This whole thread is so fun and so sad.

First as Bucc and others already stated a solution has already been added for season 6 as well as have hundreds of other changes that were discussed and formed by the worldwide community in the past.

Second it's sad to see that some guys think this is an "European" ladder where admins are only puppets and I'm Mr Evil who tries to live out his anti american believes. That's been the first time I have heard this since the BL was founded  3 1/2 years ago.

Well Noto timezones are timezones and I can't change that. The default times try to be as fair as possible and as a consequence aren't optimal for both sides. However if both sides agree every clan can/could change the default times. Further your solution was to extend the finals, I agreed to that if all other clans that played their final games in the correct timeframe agree. Not all clans agreed as a consequence the finals were continued as planned. Last but not least N and ! played their games within the correct timeframe although it was impossible.

So I have to ask myself what is this drama all about!? Is it to point out that west coast - european cbs are problematic due the 9 hour time difference! That's nothing new. Everybody knows about this issue and further if you look at the default times, they aren't that bad, especially if you play at the weekends. They are acceptable for both sides. Of course it depends if you are a pupil, student or if you have a day or night job. Few even have to work at the weekend so the times will never be perfect for all involved. However if there is a will the so called "impossible" can be done.

Please guys look at this thread from the distance and now tell me that you don't have to laugh!? To laugh about both sides! That these different points of view, that have already been known for years, have been changed to and explained as "The BL is Anti American", "The US admins, although in the majority, doesn't count - but the european admin Civic, which is an admins since few weeks, and me, Mauti, count as the one and only" and much more even more ridiculous facts. Yep even me is exaggerating sometimes when I use words like racism. All in all everything because of this rule:

Attention: in the finals you have to play! The default cb times are one cb per day - EUR vs EUR clans at 8:00pm GMT, US vs US clans 9pm EST(New York Time) and EUR vs US clans 10:30pm GMT(5:30pm EST) and if your clan comes from outside EUR or US the default time is 6:00pm GMT. # of players is up to you. If you can't decide the default # of players will be taken.


Smiling allowed and no the second round doesn't finish on saturday 12:00am CET to give european players an extra advantage(I highly doubt that any US clan would play an european clan between 3:00am,west coast, and 6:00am,east coast, have someone thought about this point) it is simply because this is the time I come home from university and then I can immediatley annouce the final final round.

Noto, yes I still have your new wording of the BL rules, which will be used for season 6. The reason why it wasn't added in the current season is that I sent you another new rule to reword for me per mail. I waited for an answer, which never came, and then I thought it was too late to confuse people with rewritten rules in the end of a season where everyone was already used to the current ones.
 
Beside our different opinions Noto I hereby invite you to join the BL admin team for season 6 so you can add your thoughts, ideas, represent west coast clans and can be persuaded that this league is far away from being a european dominated ladder where US clans are only welcome.

Good night,

Mauti

thanks, Mauti, for this well-thought-out posting. I think and hope that it represents the opinion of the majority of the Mac players on GR.

One thing i have to add:
We've all tried to run the league as fair as possible, and to take the suggestions, problems and various issues that are bound to occur seriously. As it has always been, everyone is invited to place suggestions in a polite manner here in the forums or via email. The history of the League has shown that it has grown organically, always with the input of the players.

I hope that everyone's cooled their heads now, so we can end this fifth season without any permanent grudges.

*DAMN Elandrion

Hi Mauti- I know its a couple pages back, but I wanted to clarify something I said to which you took exception. When I suggested yyou have a european bias I did not mean you do anything intentionally trying to give euros an adantage or whatever. My point is that you are in Europe, I am guessing you grew up in Europe, and you view life through the eyes of a European. That's all. I think 'bias' might have been a poor choice of words on my part, considering how this thread has gone. My persoanl experience with you through this website and the league isthat you have always attempted to be objective and straightforward with any issues I have brought to you... just so you know.