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Title: About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on July 07, 2003, 07:35:06 am its no secret that i hate mainman, or that i usually catch him doing sneaky things that involve my clan...
So i decided to take a look at the CQB mod that he claims to have made. aside from the obvious (how he included RS/ ported CS maps in his mod that other people made), i looked a bit further. Inside the the Equip folder inside the mod he directly copied all the contents from the latest release of the MP mod... Aside from a few extras in there, everything down to the chicken launcher was directly copied from the MP mod, and by copy i mean drag and drop, not remade. File-sizes, and created dates are exactly the same on the files he copied from the MP mod. As far as the kits go the rifleman kits were copied, all 136 of them I'm not going to list all the files that are direct copies of what lothario made... but here is a screenshot to give you an idea. http://homepage.mac.com/farmerjeb/mainman.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/farmerjeb/sounds.jpg the column view from the top is the MP mod, and the bottom is the CQB mod... Notice the similarities? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Saberian 3000 on July 07, 2003, 04:37:54 pm Well, I dont hate mainman, but I must admit that these files are literally identical to the files from the |MP| mod. I mean as far as I can tell, it was pretty much plagerism with the files there. Especially if he claimed that he did all of the conversions himself. So I can see you're point there Jeb, it does make sense on you're suspicions there. And unless he proves otherwise I would have to assume that it was plagerism on his part because of the evidence presented.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 07, 2003, 04:40:59 pm This is something serious?
I just hope the community does not degrade to where half the regular players opt for DaGRM and the rest play in private games out of fear of cheaters? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on July 07, 2003, 10:49:51 pm i dunno if it really has that much to do with cheating,
but i know the reason lothario has to work on a realism mod is to try to up the fun factor for people who dislike the reticuals and/or suck at ghost recon. Plus adding tons of pistols for close combat games. I know that he did quite a bit of research towards finding acurate, and fun settings for guns to try to make things more realistic and have a faster pace. He spent quite a few months working on it, Then mainman copied all the work he did, threw in a few maps other people made and put his name on it. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 08, 2003, 12:14:39 pm This disgusts me. He even admits to stealing the pistol files to copy for "his mod". I know how long and hard Loth worked on those files (and how often he had us test them so he could perfect them).
It's not like the little bitch even asked, just took them and said "too bad". Well, anyone that uses that mod is just supporting that kind of behavior and can stay away from any games I host, I don't want ya around if you think that's ok. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 08, 2003, 02:02:24 pm The aspect of this that amuses me is that if Mainman had come to me and asked for permission to use the data files from the |MP| Mod in his CQB mod, I would have said that it sounds cool, and to go ahead.
Since he didn't ask, however, he can suck my nuts. The BTs guys have been really up-front with me about this situation, and I applaud them for it. Here's my official word: Mainman may not use any data files or contents of data files from the |MP| Mod in his mod, nor may any version of his mod which includes said files or data be used in the BTs CQB league. Mainman can do his own damn work. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Brain on July 08, 2003, 06:08:32 pm you may want to put a non use with out permission statement in the read me for the next vewrsion loth
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 08, 2003, 10:22:38 pm Just got done talking to BTs Eight, you may want to rethink your applause Loth.
Eight has told me that they will support and use MainMan's mod, because it's all mods get stolen. He doesn't care about the work that was put into it, all he cares about is bringing more people into the BTs league. Well, I'm disappointed if that's what BTs are going to do. It's one thing to understand that any mod publicly available can be ripped off like this, it's completely another to support that kind of activity. So screw it, I don't want anything to do with a clan that has that kind of attitude and lack of class. It sucks, because guys like SignTist and STURM are great guys to be in games with, but Eight just seems to care about the BTs League and not doing the right thing. So, true to my word, I'm going to block anyone using the CQB mod from the servers. Sorry, but if supporting that kind of bullshit is ok with you, I don't need to spend time in games with you either. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on July 08, 2003, 10:59:18 pm when i talked to signtist he was very professional and understanding about the situation, its kinda gay that Eight would choose to support a mod thats filled with nothing but stolden work(not just ours).
It doesn't really matter because now mainman is planning on changing the filesnames so we can't prove he copied anything. I would hope that mauti will not host this mod in the download sections of damn. I don't really care what he does now, because i'm gonna start have some fun... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 09, 2003, 01:20:33 am Signtist and Sturm were very up-front with me about it, and I thank them for it. Eight, of course, is being a bitch, true to character. ::shrug:: There will be ramifications.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Billy Bongwater on July 09, 2003, 01:43:59 am I,for one,have deleted the mod in question and I hope others do the same.Supporting that shit is almost as bad as doing it in the first place.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: maianmanmanam on July 09, 2003, 01:55:36 am ah, ok this is getting kinda tiring responding in 4 different forums.. so im gona get down 2 point.. remember folks letz have a good debate about this. Meaning... plz keep the past behind us.
Heres a post by BTs_eight whos supporting a league for this mod had 2 say: "My whole thing is... Yes Loth put in alot of work... Yes the mp mod is a good one... Yes so is the Map Mod... Yeah so are any other mods an tweaks MM did to the CQB BUT the MP mod doesnt have what i want to experience the CQB style... So... Thats where i stand... NO MM is not making money off of this... NO MP is not making money off of this... Then whats the problem? Can't Loth just get the credit? I mean thats what the MP mod is right? So MP an loth can get credit? He made it so people can have fun right? Well i also think MM should get credit for bringing up the idea of having a close quarters combat mod... I also think he should get credit for bringing it all together. Remember guys... This is to have fun... IN NEW AND DIFFRENT STYLE OF GAMEPLAY. " Heres the news post on the cqb headquarters site "Ive discoved another attempt from jeb trying 2 biotch about something. In the making of the mod i used other mods 2 learn how they were made. I found the MP mod 2 be a prime example since the mod was hand made (No using IGOR) In the process i left some of its files in the 1.1 version of the mod. The cqb doesnt have ANY of the mods highlighs runing. As tho they may be in the mod but not running or inaffective you might say. The iteams that were "Stole" were the pistols. i used the .txt files of the mp's pistols 2 re make them for cqb's purposes. Their are no orginal files of the mp mod running in the 1.1 version. Remember People this mod is made for fun and the mod will still be give out even if jeb doesnt like it. I 1.2 version should clear this all up. If yelling happens anymore of this matter i can bring up the fact..... the MP's pistols can also be seen in other mods that i have proof. So just to clear that up. If you have anyinfomation email me g_b_mainman@softhome.net" After a debate on this, should i remove or keep the project online. And we arrivived at "yes". The cqb will mention loth's pistols were used and a appoligie cause i do feel bad.But the fact is.. the cqb mod has his files for learning purposes and the new version 1.2 of the mod will be a fresh mod. So even if i got rid of the 1.1 version the 1.2 version is allrdy out with the corrected changes. The league as planed well start hopefully end of this week or next week due to the problems. Please go ahead with the post mauti. -mainman If u have any other consiers plz just post them on the cqb site since i monitor the forums more than *DAMNs or BTs. -end of story- Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 09, 2003, 04:12:00 am I think ANY stolen work is a bannable offence and any group that endourses such things need to be removed from any legitimate things that they might have been doing.
I would rethink coming here to post mainman. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: mainmanslastreply on July 09, 2003, 04:22:59 am -end of story-
Do u not understand? Who are u 2 say i shouldnt be posting here. Using familiar guns is not a "bannable offence". ***post*** Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on July 09, 2003, 06:10:47 am mainman,
Other people's attempts to make a game fun are one thing, but you can't slap your name on it. You said that your not using the kits, but then you admit that you used all the pistols from the MP mod (which is the reason loth made the mod). And you also claim that a friend of yours used our mod for something of his. If you make a mod thats a compilation you give credit to people who actually did the work. If you don't want to give the MP mod credit please remove any, and every trace of it from your mod, do the weapons over yourself and the sounds. If your next mod release contains files that aren't named the same as ours, but are the same i'd say thats one more strike. After talking to eight today he made it perfectly clear that he wants to support plagurism and theft so i guess your lucky in one respect mainman... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: maianahdbfo on July 09, 2003, 06:49:40 am remember folks.. 1.1 is gone.. 1.2 is out so stop crying over spilled milk. And jeb... ur point sucks.. so get a better one.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 09, 2003, 06:58:49 am Jeb, I cleared everything up with Buccaneer and Mainman.
The new version that we support will not have any MP files. I would ask that you keep you assumptions to yourself, not that you will but i am just asking nicely. Mauti.. I apologize that this subject is on your forums. You may remove any mention of the BTL from BTs_members off YOUR FORUM.. We apologize if we have offended you in anyway. Thank you for running a great forum and Battle League. Please keep up the great work( this goes to all of the moderators as well)...... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: .vooDoo. on July 10, 2003, 02:40:10 am Hey Fusion, im making my own "cqb" mod using Mainman's file's from the MP mod. Will the BTs league support me? ;) Do you think mainman will be upset? Do you think MP will be upset? Do you think that I am breaking some unwritten rule of code? That is the point here. There is a unwritten code that was broke and should not have been.
Another thing, you said that non of the MP mods file's are used in the 1.2 release of Mainmans mod. How can you be certain? The Agecny will stand by The MP's and will not compete in the any league using stollen files for any mod unless certain credit has been given. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 10, 2003, 03:07:24 am Thanks, Voods. : ) That means a lot coming from you.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 10, 2003, 03:52:26 am Mainman gave credit when credit was asked for..
If you look at his original MOD that he compiled you will see a file called MLP01 Aztec.txt. This is a file asking for credit for the work they did. I would suggest MP does this asap to there MOD, or Place something that says no one is allow to use any part of the MOD. Now Voodoo, the agreement was made with MP Buccaneer to not support the MOD with MP files. I suggest MP DL the newest version and check it themselves. I have looked at it but I asked Bucc to send me a list of MP files and I have not received this yet so I really cant check out the new files. You know the ladder wasnt even started yet, and i wont let it start until the mod does not have any of MPs files. I thought that was clear to the MP guys.. Wait your not MP, talk to Bucc, he will inform you that we came to an agreement. P.S. Loth please place a distribution policy in your mod please. And I am sorry it got ugly. But we have done the right thing. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 10, 2003, 04:16:07 am You've *technically* done the right thing. There's a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. You've adhered to one and violated the other. ::shrug:: Now that it has been made clear that the files in the |MP| Mod are not up for grabs and not approved for use in Mainman's mod, the fact that you maintain that you've done nothing wrong at any point is rather silly.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 10, 2003, 11:57:05 am What are you talking about man.. Didnt you just read that his mod will not be supported till it does not contain any MP files? Cause that is what I just wrote and that is what I talked to Bucc about.
Please read carefully before you post. Geez people this is a little irrotating when you dont read what is posted. There are alot of people that want to play this type of MOD. Its more of the Rogue Spear type gameplay, AND I SAID THAT THE LADDER WILL NOT BE STARTED TILL THE VERSION THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN MP FILES IS RELEASED. Now stop, go back and re-read the last sentence. Please understand that I do not want to upset anyone, even the MP guys. I personally could careless about the guns, well maybe a modded mp5 for a better gameplay. So anyway WE AGREED NOT TO START THE LADDER UNTIL WE HAVE A VERSION OF THE CQB MOD THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN MP FILES. I would ask that if you have a problem with us hosting the CQB MOD. Post it in our forums not here. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THE BTL(sorry once again Mauti. I truly am trying to get people to respect you and your work). You know where to go and post your problems. Now I hope this is a lesson to all thoughs MOD makers out there. And please stop acting like we did you wrong Loth, we have done everything to make MP happy, atleast that is the impression i got from Bucc. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MAINMANV.2.0 on July 10, 2003, 10:55:23 pm Well said.. And heres a follow up i released the 1.2 version and its now on 2 download sources for public download with some .txt files loth should read.
More info is at the cqb website. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 12, 2003, 10:14:25 am After trying for several days, I finally was able to download the CQB Mod version 1.2, the one expunged of all stolen data. Lo and behold, what do I find? All the |MP| Mod files are still in the mod! What's more, despite mainman's assurance that "i would like you to know [the |MP| Mod files] are not active" in his "Formal Appol (sic)" file, the files are indeed active and being used! ::gasp of shock and dismay!::
Fusion has claimed repeatedly that the CQB mod will not be used by BTs until it is free of all stolen data. The stolen data is still intact. In summary, mainman continues to be a lying, stealing moron who's wading in the shallow end of the gene pool. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: crypt on July 13, 2003, 01:20:43 am how about mainman puts some kind of reference in his CQB mod, referencing the MP mod and the hard work put in by Loth and MP, then mainman puts some of his own work into the mod, and then everyone should be happy.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 13, 2003, 03:15:37 am If you cared to read the earlier posts in this thread, the time for something as simple as that has passed. Mainman fucked up, not suprising though?
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Guest on July 13, 2003, 03:39:07 am Just to let you guys know, the cqb talk is located at the BTL Forums.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 13, 2003, 03:52:06 am There's no discussion going on at their forum, mainman. Heh, "Guest". There's just another take on this same exact discussion. However, in the interest of full disclosure to all interested parties, here's the link (http://www.battleteksquad.com/forum/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=125) to the thread.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 13, 2003, 04:54:02 am OK, fun little PM log here. Color added for ease of reading, but it's otherwise unmodified except for the bracketed note at the end.
mainman.CTs: Have a sec |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Possibly. What do you want? mainman.CTs: i.e. the CQB Mod i want this solved mainman.CTs: With out calling each other bastereds... mainman.CTs: ok? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You fucked up from day one. There's no way to solve it now. But I will drop it if you actually remove all of my files and data from your mod. mainman.CTs: well, please picture it from my perspective mainman.CTs: I understand why r offended.. But you getting way 2 far off the diving board... |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Hmm, no. You're totally in the wrong. mainman.CTs: I tryed removing all the files... |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: My reasons for being angry are quite clear and have been presented to you several times. The way you can salvage what little of your dignity remains has been presented to you. mainman.CTs: what did i miss? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Yet you did not do it. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Try ALL OF THEM. mainman.CTs: Ok now ur being stupid... |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Nearly every single file from the |MP| Mod is still in your mod. mainman.CTs: well, as i said i used ur mod as a guide.. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Reading a book to learn from it and copying the book and slapping your name on it are two different things. mainman.CTs: Mr. Loth i cant re making the Mod folder till the newversion comes out.. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You said that version 1.2 did not have any of my files in it. Yet, it has all of them. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You lied again. mainman.CTs: Ok shoot me, i missed what files with the same name?? I tryed my hardest 2 remove them.. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I just did a search. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: There are 637 files named mp_* in your mod. mainman.CTs: Loth.. frankly alot of people dont care about this... seems you are most offended and i see why... They just want to play mainman.CTs: They care less about this argument.. mainman.CTs: mp stands for muliplayer.... as i c... thats what some other dude told me.. im not quite sure |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: And a whole lot of people do care about it, including all of several clans. mainman.CTs: several? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Actually, mp_ stands for "|MP| Mod", as in "I MADE IT SO DON'T FUCKING USE IT." mainman.CTs: want do u want me 2 do about it, start being alittle more helpful or nothing will change |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I. Want. You. To. Remove. Them. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Like you promised. Like you should have done before ever releasing it. mainman.CTs: Well i didnt know mp_also ment ur clan.. mainman.CTs: Cant i just give u credit thats all i can do about now... |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: If, as you claim, you used my mod as a learning tool, then you should have noticed that there are no files named mp_* in the original data files. Therefore, I created them. mainman.CTs: i allrdy said sry.. looks like ur cold hearted enough 2 say FU agian.. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I don't care if you're sorry. I think I've made that pretty clear. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You stole from me and, when caught, tried to say it was ok. mainman.CTs: Caught? mainman.CTs: i was never hiding it in the first place |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You have one path of action open to you, and that is to completely remove every bit of data that I created from your mod. mainman.CTs: Why should i do that agian? mainman.CTs: Mb if i miss another file i get 2 hear u bitch some more? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: YOU MISSED 637 FILES. mainman.CTs: THEY WERE REMADE |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Bullshit. They have the same modification dates as my copies, and they show up as Tex-Edit files. Meaning, they're my fucking files. mainman.CTs: for god sakes i loved ur MP mod.. it got me into modding hell, i even hosted it and play it with you.. i dont wana show any disrespect for the mod or the crater. mainman.CTs: well then.. if their urs.. delete them mainman.CTs: the mod will still work |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: If you want to make your own mod, make your own mod. Stealing from me is not the same thing. mainman.CTs: stealing mainman.CTs: it was never copywritted it the 1st place mainman.CTs: u would never win in the court |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You don't understand this at all, do you? You're using every last one of my files. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Delete them, and your mod falls apart. mainman.CTs: Not that im saying i wantd to steal.. mainman.CTs: No it doesnt mainman.CTs: the only thing on ur mod.. were the remade pistols |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Copyright is implicit. I don't have to explicitly state it. I created it, therefore it is mine unless I say otherwise. mainman.CTs: yes u do.. mainman.CTs: Their no point of copywritting if its allrdy copywritted.. |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: ::shrug:: Think what you like. I'll say it again. Remove my files. Not change them, remove them. I know what you'll try. mainman.CTs: which is? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Renaming them and claiming that they're not the same files. mainman.CTs: Are u paying for this? |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Paying for what, pray tell? mainman.CTs: Does non-profit mean something 2 u |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Do you honestly think that that defense will work in this situation? mainman.CTs: ya know what.. people love the mod the way it is.. frankly BTs is favoring my side and supporting the mod with the non-active files.. and if worst comes 2 worst the BTs wont host it.. ill will host it... you will not win.. ill promise you that. mainman.CTs: 2 many people love this mod mainman.CTs: over and out |MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to. I put in many hours of work on it. You're damned right that I'm pissed that you simply stole my work. [He had logged off immediately after sending the "over and out" message.] Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: c| Splinter on July 13, 2003, 05:13:13 am Little off the topic, but from a legal perspective something is technically copyrighted once to hits a recorded medium (i.e. audio recording, videotape, datafile (such as this case), even a pen on paper). What most people think of copywriting is actually the process of registering a copyright. So even though Loth didn't make a readme file that said ?2003 Mr. Loth, and send it to the copyright office, it still is copyrighted.
It's too bad, because I think the idea of a CQB league sounds like a lot of fun, but they way it was implemented taints the whole thing. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 13, 2003, 05:34:17 am The faintly ironic thing about this situation is that I agree with you, Splinter. A CQB league sounds like a great idea.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: bronto on July 13, 2003, 05:46:13 am Mainman....he's the brightest crayon in the box. About the copywriting, i think once your name is on it than it's automatically copyrighted. I think that when you want to sell things under a business name then you have to go to a copyright office type thing or something...im pretty blazed. Anyway, mainman is obviously delusional and seems to think he and his (Loths) mod are the shit, but in actuality, contrary to what he believes
Quote mainman.CTs: Loth.. frankly alot of people dont care about this... seems you are most offended and i see why... They just want to play alot of people do care about it (i for one, just didn't think it was necesary for me to post when there was already such a high ratio against MM), and it's not going to be tolerated. Like loth said, mainman is totally in the wrong, and by lying even more he's just proving he has no respect for other peoples work. Mainman is just digging himself into a deeper hole.mainman.CTs: They care less about this argument.. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 13, 2003, 06:59:52 am Splinter has this pretty much dead on as far as copyrights goes. A copyright is in effect the first time a work is created and saved in any format (so the first time you save the file on your computer for us).
Created is the important word there too. Since mainman didn't create, but just copied, he can save till his heat is content, and it will never be his work. But, let's face it. This isn't going to court. We have to be a self policing group here. So, if you believe that this kind of activity is wrong, that he shouldn't just get away with using all of Loth's files, you need to show that support. Me, I'll put anyone I see using the mod on the ignore list. That will get the message across if they can't find any other games to play. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Brain on July 13, 2003, 08:02:53 am you know, at fist i thought mainman was just trying to be an asshole, but after that pm conversation, i'm starting to think that he is lacking the intelligence to realize he is in the wrong on this
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: pro mainman! on July 13, 2003, 08:05:02 pm wow!!
no idea how often i copied source code from diferent homepages... and like mainman i used these codes for learning html..... since then i did a lot of files completly on my own, but im still copy/past some stuff from the code into mine..... am i now a stealer like mainman!??!? "|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to." u did this mod for the ghr community, and one of them took this mod, and enhanced it....like i mostly did with my html files when i learned html.... i really dont care if there are files from mp mod or not......mp mod was the basis, and got enhanced -------> a new mod has been created! thats all i have to say!! clam down! ill play this mod, either on the btl, or on another ladder.....i dont care!!!! Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: crypt on July 13, 2003, 09:31:37 pm this is so stupid, just resolve it somehow, mainman you should take it off, or just see if loth will let you help you in a next version of the MP mod or something, this debate is just gonna get longer and longer as you guys start to argue more and more.
pretty much, just stop!!! Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Brain on July 13, 2003, 10:54:12 pm Hmm...Mainman, who the hell are you trying to fool? Can't you realize that the more you fight this issue and attempt to get away with blatant thievery the less the community is supporting you? It should be obvious to you considering that you had to make up this pro mainman character so that you could try and create the illusion that there is someone out there who actually is on your side. Rapid has tried this trick way to many times for it to work on us any more. Also, you are the only person who has shown interest in this subject that spells 'you' , 'u'.
But enough of that, time to address your argument... wow!! no idea how often i copied source code from different homepages... and like mainman i used these codes for learning html..... Ok, that is valid and legal behavior, as long as you use the copied source for REFERENCE! since then i did a lot of files completly on my own, but im still copy/past some stuff from the code into mine..... am i now a stealer like mainman!??!? To answer your question, yes you are a thief (the proper term for it). You took something, in whole or in part that was not your work you then modified it, however there were still fragments of the original code left intact (you said you copy/pasted). Once you claimed that the result was your work you committed a copyright violation. Even if there is one line of original code left in your work, you must still GIVE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR CREDIT! Had we been talking about a paper, what you have done would be called plagiarism. You're in school now aren't you mainman? Then I'm pretty sure you know damn well you need to properly cite all your sources in a paper. The same goes for websites and mods. Cite your sources or you are no better than a common thief. "|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to." u did this mod for the ghr community, and one of them took this mod, and enhanced it....like i mostly did with my html files when i learned html.... Lothario made this mod for the community to use, not to abuse. No where has he ever given any permission for you (or anyone for that matter) to use any |MP| mod files. this mod was his contribution to the community, and he deserves credit. You deserve nothing, not even the dignity of being addressed as a human being. I already covered the issue with how this relates to html code. i really dont care if there are files from mp mod or not......mp mod was the basis, and got enhanced -------> a new mod has been created! copy and paste or drag and drop enhances NOTHING! You have taken all of his hard work and done PRACTICALLY NOTHING to improve it or modify it. If you had re-tweaked all the gun kits, that would be a much different issue, but there is no way you could have. I know for a fact how much effort went into this mod before the public even knew of it's existence. It took months to get the current settings right. Even IF you had done any work I would expect at least 2 to 3 weeks of play testing to confirm your settings for the first mod. The revision and the original were released within what, a span of 3 weeks total? If that? A new mod has not been created, rather an old one had been hijacked. By the way, congratulations about not caring. It takes a brave (or foolish) man to stand alone. I suspect you are the latter. thats all i have to say!! clam down! ill play this mod, either on the btl, or on another ladder.....i dont care!!!! Well, good, than i can look forward to never hearing your foolish prattle ever again. I do care. I helped Loth on that mod as a beta tester. Everyone in |MP| did. You didn't just steal Loth's hard work but all of ours (mainly Loth's though). That is why we have been so adamant about you taking Loth's files. That is why we wont calm down, and that is why we will hound you until every last bit of Loth's data is gone from that pile of rubbish that you so jokingly call a mod. I hope you have fun playing your mod on your own private ladder. I just hope that your imaginary allies can shoot, because you certainly wont find any help from me... ::) I'd like mauti to confirm that this is Mainman, just so he cant weasel out of this[/color] Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 13, 2003, 11:51:42 pm Speaking of Mauti, over on the BTs forum, Nova said that *DAMN might be supporting the CQB mod in an official league, or possibly he meant that they'll be hosting the file. Sorry about the ambiguity; my Stupid-to-English dictionary isn't helping me much on this one.
I hope to see Mauti's assurance that *DAMN is not expressing support for mainman's mod. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 14, 2003, 12:38:57 am Actually Brain, it sounds more like BTs Nova then mainman to me. Just because it looks very close to his post on their forums.
In either case, it's someone that doesn't have the balls to actually post under their real handle, which really makes that oh so much more lame. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: pro mainman! on July 14, 2003, 01:37:37 am sry guys, in neither Mainman himself nor BTs Nova.....
im just supporting mainman....... yeaaaaaaaah, there are ppl who are supporting him!!!! omg!!! :shocked: concerning the html code: if i copy/past a special script, then i meight eb voilating a copyright by someone, but like in html u are using some basic files, or "code" over and over again! like the header in html files, u can see this tag in mostly source code of a homepage! and everyone is just editing it, as he needs it.......so everyone whos using this tag is a thief?!!? :lol: there are some basic files in ghr, like sounds of weapons, and the weapons itselves...... u have no chance to re-write these files, if u havent done this before.... and even if u re-write them....u will have to type mostly the same stuff again, in order to get the weapon, as it should be..... thats why i`m on mainmans side!! u need some basic stuff, to build a bigger mod.....the basic stuff meight come from the mp mod, but otherwiese he can just take it from the ghr data folder.... sry that u heard from me again! ;D Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: BTs_Nova on July 14, 2003, 02:23:39 am 1st:
i havent posted yet here.... i just found this topic here, when i saw the link in the bts forums...... why dont u guys just copy/past ure posts, instead of writing them twice?!? or use only one forum ;) 2nd: Speaking of Mauti, over on the BTs forum, Nova said that *DAMN might be supporting the CQB mod in an official league, or possibly he meant that they'll be hosting the file. Sorry about the ambiguity; my Stupid-to-English dictionary isn't helping me much on this one. I hope to see Mauti's assurance that *DAMN is not expressing support for mainman's mod. here is a quotation from mautis league news, where BTs_ was announced as winner: "Unfortunaly the RS ladder died this season due inactivness but may our BL changes for season 5 will bring back exciting CQC battles!" as i already wrote in the bts forum: mauti called it Close Quater Combat instead of mainmans Close Quater Battles 3rd: back to this Nova posted: i think a lot of ppl are learning by doing..... and html is a code for everyone....so copy/past wont be so bad..... as long as its not protected by a copywirte, or u need a license (like 8 is paying for the btl script) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on July 14, 2003, 02:25:15 am Brain... i didnt bother reading ur horse crap.. Just to let you know... i dont know if ur slamming me or "pro mainman". Looks like he foold u.
TY "pro mainman" Nova or who ever u are.. Mr. Loth, mauti will be hosting the mod not league once this crap is sorted. The other reason why im not going into detail is that this FORUM IS ON THE BTs FORUMS. *DAMN is prob sick of this allrdy. -mainman.CTs Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 14, 2003, 02:52:34 am yeaaaaaaaah, there are ppl who are supporting him!!!! omg!!! :shocked: OMG!! :shocked: someone that supports mainman on this but is afraid to let people know who he is!! :gasp: Yeah, that's really showing support. there are some basic files in ghr, like sounds of weapons, and the weapons itselves...... u have no chance to re-write these files, if u havent done this before.... and even if u re-write them....u will have to type mostly the same stuff again, in order to get the weapon, as it should be..... Funny, Loth managed to rewrite all those files. I can understand why a moron would find that too difficult a challenge, but don't pretend it can't be done, because it was. And mainman could have used the GhR files, and not all the MP Mod files, but he chose to use all the MP files. And he lied about taking all the MP Mod files out. As for your analogy to the html, there's a big difference. If you were to say, copy the BTs site, and just change the background colors and put a different clan name on it, it's not learning, it's stealing. That's basically what the little punk did with that mod, took files from other mods, other peoples work, and slapped them into his and put his name on it. He sure didn't seem to learn anything (especially if he can't tell that all the guns were modified.) And it's not like he tried to make it right, he never asked which files needed to be removed, he just claimed he did it, and expected people to believe him. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: jewb on July 14, 2003, 03:37:22 am Brain... i didnt bother reading ur horse crap.. i didn't know you could read...wait that was mean, i shouldn't make fun of handicapped people like that. Anyhow I'm not surprised to see mainman didn't know he needed to take the mp files out. The kid can barely write a sentence, let alone make a kit for ghost recon with no one holding his little hand. If you take all the files out of the CQB mod (the latest version) that are raped from the MP mod, you'll notice that the mod doesn't work... funny how that wouldn't happen if they are just there as an example. Anyhow I'm sure you'd have no problems with MP switching to the exact same site as the BTs one, (with mp pasted ontop of bts), because thats the same thing mainman did to us. Needless to say I'm not happy with a few people about because of their actions.... but good-luck in the future ;) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: jewb on July 14, 2003, 03:37:37 am Brain... i didnt bother reading ur horse crap.. i didn't know you could read...wait that was mean, i shouldn't make fun of handicapped people like that. Anyhow I'm not surprised to see mainman didn't know he needed to take the mp files out. The kid can barely write a sentence, let alone make a kit for ghost recon with no one holding his little hand. If you take all the files out of the CQB mod (the latest version) that are raped from the MP mod, you'll notice that the mod doesn't work... funny how that wouldn't happen if they are just there as an example. Anyhow I'm sure you'd have no problems with MP switching to the exact same site as the BTs one, (with mp pasted ontop of bts), because thats the same thing mainman did to us. Needless to say I'm not happy with a few people because of their actions.... but good-luck in the future ;) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 14, 2003, 03:44:32 am This is a file included with the 1.2b release:
Notes regarding |MP|Mod by Mr. Loth. CQB Mod was made from the MP mod originally. From the mod i learned how ghost recon mods work and a better understanding. When i released the 1.1 version of the mod i didn't ask the consent of Mr. Loth since the mod was not gota be Battled with and it was a beta to start out with. This is my formal apology to Mr. Loth, not any other MP member or fan, for using his mod. I didn't know all this crap would happen because of this old version of the mod. Since the mod is practically gone and 1.2 is in i still feel regret on my shoulders. I will not sink down to jebs, nor buccs level. Ive tryed my hardest removing some of the |MP| Mod files but some may exist. And if they do.. i would like you to know they are not active neither will i give my self credit for that. If you notice i decided not to add my name under the ModsCont.txt. Keep in mind i was not the only one making this mod. And i say thanks to: * X1|Xavier * Grantbo * Kanundro * SiXshooter * Fusion * Smokie * Gen Xy. (Ur still a gen) =) *Hopefully i remembered everyone, but if i didn't.. Thanks for helping Hopefully this will clear this up so more clans may support our mod. I didnt make this mod 2 piss people off... -mainman g_b_mainman@softhome.net Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: BTs_ST u RM on July 14, 2003, 04:06:44 am For the record, I was one of the early, and enthusiastic beta-testers and supporters of the |MP| MOD. All hail SquirrelMaster-ST u RM!!!!!!
BTs_ST uRM :-X Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on July 14, 2003, 05:12:16 am Jewb ur slams Fit ur age fine so keep them coming..
Fusion and i just testing the mod with the nessary mp files out just like i asked and it did work fine.. we found some gun mis matches which were easy fixed. I have no clue where u get all the BS. Wait didnt i just type a sentace?? OMG i did. "The kid can barely write a sentence" Your right man, next time ill get my self a coke before i do another... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Brain on July 14, 2003, 05:20:25 am i'd like to point out to pro mainman that even though the individual tags in html are not copyrighted, the way they are put together to from a webpage is. the same way i cant copy right the letter e but i can copyright a book that i write that is a specific combination of those letters.
as bucc said, those files can be rewritten by hand. loth didn't have a mod to steal from when he made the mp mod sorry, bucc and jewb left me pretty slim pickings for a rebuttle oh yes, and just a shout out to storm that the squirrel leetness is remembered and respected. in reply though PH34R TEH CHICKEN! Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 14, 2003, 06:14:46 am What's the arguement in this?
Someone stole data, that person was caught, the person in particular, did not comply with the creator's specifications, the thief should be banned and removed from anyone who does not want to be involved in such childish idiocy. If this "Battletek" league supports mainman and his descisions, they will be looked down on by those who actually like to have fun and play legitimately. There is no arguement. No Justification. No matter what you say, either you're supporting data theft, or stole the data itself. Why are you doing this, mainman? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 14, 2003, 07:05:21 am I am working with mainman along with the other people listed above, to remove MP files.
It has been stated that all the files with the MP Mod were created by Loth. Well after looking into this mod, Loth may have renamed them and modified some of them but he didnt create alot of them from scratch. Examples: File name Created Modified mp_demolitions-12.kit 4/30/02 4/30/02 mp_demolitions-13.kit 4/30/02 4/30/02 All that Loth did was rename them so you guys need to becareful what you say about MP creating the files from scratch. I know MP did alot of work and so is mainman and his crew(including me) to get the CQB mod out, without MP files! Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on July 14, 2003, 07:09:16 am Stolen? Why am i doing this? Cause over 100 people say different
Me and fusion are re-modling the mod and adding for 2.0 when the league starts. "There is no arguement. No Justification. No matter what you say, either you're supporting data theft, or stole the data itself" Yes their is. It matters everything? Who the hell u trying 2 fool? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 14, 2003, 07:19:10 am Then simply state what and why it matters, instead of being the child you're appearing to be after every post you make.
As for loth renaming files, that is necessary, I doubt that you will ever get this CQB mod off the ground (legitimately), that is, if you stop checking here and arguing over your nonexistant points. You're never giving any answers, no truth, but you prefer to be the little prick that you are becoming in my mind (and in the minds of a few others as well). State a reason, answer the question, I am not the one who stole over 800 files in data, I, am not the one being questioned. You are the one who did this, don't question me about this , espicially in your bastardized form of English. "who ar u tryin to fool" Fix your caps lock key and get a spellchecker. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 14, 2003, 07:56:02 am Ok heres an Update.
I went through the 2.0 Beta with mainman. And we removed all files we thought were created/modified by MP. It looks great and I do not think MP guys will have any issues with this one. It will be posted tomorrow night. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 14, 2003, 08:40:44 am I hope you are right, I really do.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: bronto on July 14, 2003, 04:58:52 pm Wait didnt i just type a sentace?? OMG i did. Well, actually it doesn't really count when your 'sentances' are all typos...then it's just a bunch of crap...i'm pretty sure it would still be crap if anyone could understand what you were trying to say. Also, i don't know what the deal is with these BTS guys but it seems that mainman is either tricking them or they're idiots too (that was my second guess). Oh, and funny story i made this graphic (http://www.hostultra.com/~bronto/ak.gif you have to paste it in browser, or else pron) a while ago and posted it, just making a suggestion for AK (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=40;start=msg48794#msg48794) and not much longer the BTS site came out, with a striking resemblance to my graphic, so it seems that they are familiar with this 'borrowing' (copying) thing. Not that i mind, im flattered. But nonetheless, it's not cool to be unoriginal. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on July 14, 2003, 10:30:55 pm Also, i don't know what the deal is with these BTS guys but it seems that mainman is either tricking them or they're idiots too (that was my second guess). Wow thanks for your intelligent and well founded opinion of me. ;DOh, and funny story i made this graphic (http://www.hostultra.com/~bronto/ak.gif you have to paste it in browser, or else pron) a while ago and posted it, just making a suggestion for AK (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=40;start=msg48794#msg48794) and not much longer the BTS site came out, with a striking resemblance to my graphic, so it seems that they are familiar with this 'borrowing' (copying) thing. Not that i mind, im flattered. But nonetheless, it's not cool to be unoriginal. All i get is a porn site "WHEN I COPY AND PASTE LINK" so i cant really see what you are talking about.So as of yet I still don't understand why you posted here *NADS bronto, except to talk down at people to try and elevate yourself. As for the mod, I had a conversation with Loth last-night and I am almost positive we got all the MP files out , but if there are some still there I am confident that Loth, or his Mod Squad will let us know ;) I believe all will be well with the 2.0 Version of the CQB mod. Thank you Loth and company for working with me to help remove your files. And please take mainmans apology seriously, he truly has been working with me to remove your files. And thank your for your nice mod work it helped me learn how modes work. I think you should write some how-to's to help others make mods, if you would like to help give back to the GhR community. P.S. You should get to know me before you place well rounded, well though opinions about me. So drop by the Bar and Grill sometime to meet me. I sure I will show you how much of an idiot I am. ;D Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: just wondering on July 15, 2003, 10:03:24 am Quote I think ANY stolen work is a bannable offence and any group that endourses such things need to be removed from any legitimate things that they might have been doing. May he who never stole intellectual property cast the first stone! You have any downloaded mp3 from P2P, ever made a mix tape for one of your friend, copied a movie you rented so you could show it to you friends, downloaded a movie from the internet or captured a DVD audio stream... Then according to your own rule, you should be banned from society and music stores. the guy didnt make money with this nor did he prevented anyone from making some by copying them, you do prevent people from making money (artists, not label) when you copy music or movies (or books for that mater). anyways my 2? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: another thing on July 15, 2003, 10:15:27 am Wow I am still reading trough the whole thing and GOD, these are the same people who will spit on and bash the riaa or metalica for trying to protect their stuff, do you even realize you are destructing your own arguments for stealing mp3 here. But I guess that when somebody's living depend on the sale of his intellectual property its not as bad if you steal him...
Get over it and live by your own code of conduct, integrity is a great value... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: another again on July 15, 2003, 10:22:54 am Quote To answer your question, yes you are a thief (the proper term for it).? You took something, in whole or in part that was not your work you then modified it, however there were still fragments of the original code left intact (you said you copy/pasted).? Once you claimed that the result was your work you committed a copyright violation.? Even if there is one line of original code left in your work, you must still GIVE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR CREDIT!? Had we been talking about a paper, what you have done would be called plagiarism.? You're in school now aren't you mainman?? Then I'm pretty sure you know damn well you need to properly cite all your sources in a paper.? The same goes for websites and mods.? Cite your sources or you are no better than a common thief. I studied copyrights in school and you are wrong, what you are saying is true for certain type of works but HTML is different in the sense that it was concieved to be opened, you actually cannot copyright anything HTML, its part of the standard. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Brain on July 15, 2003, 09:20:31 pm Quote To answer your question, yes you are a thief (the proper term for it).? You took something, in whole or in part that was not your work you then modified it, however there were still fragments of the original code left intact (you said you copy/pasted).? Once you claimed that the result was your work you committed a copyright violation.? Even if there is one line of original code left in your work, you must still GIVE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR CREDIT!? Had we been talking about a paper, what you have done would be called plagiarism.? You're in school now aren't you mainman?? Then I'm pretty sure you know damn well you need to properly cite all your sources in a paper.? The same goes for websites and mods.? Cite your sources or you are no better than a common thief. I studied copyrights in school and you are wrong, what you are saying is true for certain type of works but HTML is different in the sense that it was concieved to be opened, you actually cannot copyright anything HTML, its part of the standard. didn't know that, i stand corrected the rest of the argument still stands though. and is still doesn't wipe the fact the mainman has long had an axe to grind with mp. (nobody knows why though. we think it started when we banned him for ripping on our site at our site. no clue why he started it though) by what is you screen name steve@hotmail.com. in the future if you ever want to make a point you will more than likely need to have one ore else you will be shoved aside like a useless piece of scrap (i'm sure you've posted here before, i've seen the just my 2 cents sig before) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 15, 2003, 10:32:43 pm I studied copyrights in school and you are wrong, what you are saying is true for certain type of works but HTML is different in the sense that it was concieved to be opened, you actually cannot copyright anything HTML, its part of the standard. Get your tuition money back. The copyright laws for the US are easy to find and follow. I even pointed out the fair use when taking my stance against stealing music. We covered them in a grad school class on business law. It's also why I keep telling these people that you do not have to state or register a copyright, they are considered expressed when you first record the work (pen&paper, tape, hard drive, whatever). The content of your web site is protected (not the code, not the techniques, but the content). As I pointed out before, if I were to take the BTs web site, copy all the files over, and just change the background color, it would, in fact, be a copyright violation. And above all, it would just be wrong. Which is what gets ignored when talking about copyright law. It's just a low down shitty thing to do. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on July 16, 2003, 02:11:49 am to answer a whole lot of another _____'s statements, i'd like to point out that that doesn't apply in the professional world.
I am a intern at a large webdesign/media company where i live, and i am not allowed to steal code directly from a site not made by anyone in the company. By this i mean if someone wrote a kickass javascript tool, you gotta give them credit as long as its a private site and they have a terms of use agreement. Sites such as webmonkey and builder, or a api from macromedia or something along those lines doesn't apply because they allow free use. But basically, if your in a place that you can call yourself a designer (or mod maker) you should know how to make what you use, and at the least, make the basis to your work. And like bucc pointed out, the content is protected, and our content is in the CQB mod in its original form. Defending mainman with an argument that we are bad because we have downloaded an MP3 and that makes us theifs, doesn't apply to this. (but strangely it also admits that mainman is in the wrong). The battle over the morality of illegal mp3 downloading focus is on money, not credit. It would be like me downloading that shitty Ruben Studdard single, and putting my name on it, then distributing it to people. I also should point out that mainman's mod also is nothing like a remix in the music world. Remix's are made to add life to a song, or to allow another musician to make the song to their liking. The CQB mod IS NOT a remix of the MP mod, IT IS THE EXACT SAME THING but it also contains maps made by other people, who also get no credit. I would like to thank fusion for at least having the heart to help take the files out of the mod, because mainman has basically told me "fuck you my mod is going to use your files" Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: PowderToast Man on July 16, 2003, 04:34:02 am First my comment were a 2? thing hence the fact that I didnt thought it was usefull for you to know who I am. I am not a member of any clan and I only wanted to put things back in perspective because copyrights laws are amongst the least understood laws. Steve@hotmail.com must hate me cause its the email address I give everytime I don't want to be reached. Since it seems important to you to put a face on the name, well I'm PowderToast Man (input heavy echo and reverberation on name...). ;D
I do not approve what mainman did, he should have gave credit to lothlario, however notice that all the argument used to call him a stealer and general bad boy are the same used by the RIAA and metalica, which are crucified by the public for trying to protect their intellectual property, except that Loth is not loosing money to it... Also, loth haven't bought the engine of ghost recon to officialy modify it and sell its modifications. He therefore has the right to modify his own copy of it but cannot claim copyright on any work he did cause he didn't obtain copyrights on the engine, thats another specification of data copyrights. You can only claim copyright on original code, not on settings, and a mod is nothing but settings. He could claim the rights on all the artworks (but not the soundbites, you cannot copyright a soundbite) of the firearms but not on their charateristics, names (which are trademarked not copyrighted) or locations. So mainman giving him credit is just an honor thing, its rather sucker of him not to have done it. Plus the 1.2 version thing where he claimed he removed all of Loth work to be finally caught using it again, well, thats sad.. Bucaneer: I felt attacked needlessly so I will answer very clearly your suspition: I have been studying in sound design and music industry, my copyright teacher (and later boss) is Gilles Valiquette the president of Socan, the copyright society of canada, the highest instance on the matter (US and Canada have the same copyright laws -mostly, some details vary but not those ones). For each type of work there are specifications, fair use applies to books, music and movies and most type of data. However some type of data can't be copyrighted like HTML, because the standard states it and expressely forbid copyrighting it, which means the person who invented HTML included in the standard that no one could use his work to copyright another. I am not even sure you know what fair use is so I'll go: fair use is a portion of the copyright law that let anyone use parts of a work for study purpose, by study we mean academic study (or public, like in a tv show, ...even then), if you want to study the work of your favorite singer for your own personnal knowledge it is illegal to copy it. Sorry for playing anonymous but i didn't think the name was important since I am not in a clan and don't participate in CB, I'm just interested in the GhR movement and follow it. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my comments. Now, you can blast me personnally! ;D Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: me again on July 16, 2003, 04:36:10 am a website is more than HTML and Javascript isnt HTML, HTML cant be copyrighted Javascript can, so your boss just wanna be sure he wont get in legal trouble so completely forbid you to copy any part of a website, its simpler.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: |MP|Buccaneer on July 18, 2003, 06:27:36 am I am not even sure you know what fair use is so I'll go: fair use is a portion of the copyright law that let anyone use parts of a work for study purpose, by study we mean academic study (or public, like in a tv show, ...even then), if you want to study the work of your favorite singer for your own personnal knowledge it is illegal to copy it. First, maybe you should check out this thread before thinking I don't know anything about copyright law or fair use (as I directed in my last post): http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=4392;start=msg57984#msg57984 Especially let me direct your attention to this part: Copyrights on books, for example, do not allow you to pass off work as your own, but there's nothing stopping you from making another copy to use. And have you ever been to a library? Sharing intellectual property isn't illegal either. Go take a copyrighted book to a Kinko's and give it to the guy behind the counter. If he copies it, he's breaking the law. Most Kinko's wont do it (they will let you do it yourself on the self service machines, but they wont take part in it.) Go into your corporate copy center, I wanted a chapter copied, they made me get the letter and keep in on file. I am not making this up. It is illegal to make those copies. There are exceptions (fair use act) and they are: Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. You see, not only am I aware of the law, I do know where to look it up for reference. Now, for some more. You can only claim copyright on original code, not on settings, and a mod is nothing but settings. That's not exactly true either. There are copyrighted mods (just look at Island Thunder, for example). Another example would be Photoshop filters that are copyrighted by third parties. However some type of data can't be copyrighted like HTML, because the standard states it and expressely forbid copyrighting it, which means the person who invented HTML included in the standard that no one could use his work to copyright another. Hate to burst your bubble, but even the HTML standard is copyrighted. Just check out the ISO / IEEE or W3C web sits for the standard. Even check out the copyright notices on the copyright offices web site. You can copyright the content of a web site. You can't claim a second copyright on content for moving it to a different medium, if that's what you are getting at, because the CONTENT (as I said in the earlier post) is what's copyrighted, not the medium itself. What you are discussing is how you can't read a book out loud, record that and copyright it. It was already copyrighted. I do not approve what mainman did, he should have gave credit to lothlario, however notice that all the argument used to call him a stealer and general bad boy are the same used by the RIAA and metalica, which are crucified by the public for trying to protect their intellectual property, except that Loth is not loosing money to it... Money isn't an issue, more on this in a second. If Loth doesn't want to give permission, even giving him credit is still a violation of copyright law. Loth has to agree to have his stuff there. Here is a good web site that most of the people here should look at before talking about copyright law. It's called the 10 Big Myths about copyrights. It's all correct and easier for most to read then going through the actual copyright code. Numbers 1, 3, 5, 6 and 9 are all things people here have gotten wrong. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html As for not posting under your real name, if you have nothing to hide, if you are confident in what you are representing, then you shouldn't hide behind a false one. The forums are full of people that come on as guests to try and support their own positions. And that loses credibility, not gains it. Oh, one last thing. While arguing copyright law is all fun, I still stand by my previous point that the copyright is not the issue, since this isn't a court. What is the issue is that someone copied work that wasn't theirs, without permission, and tried to pass it off as their own. I don't care if he eventually gets all Loth's code out (which he still hasn't done according to Loth yesterday, even though he said he has 3 times now). He's still a scumbag for doing it. I went back and found a reference to when someone here copied the DAMN site for their own use, and there was talk about the HTML copyright back then too. I noticed that everyone stood up for not stealing the DAMN web site at the time. Why should this be any different? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: mainmanslastreply on July 18, 2003, 06:53:18 am OK i have no idea wtf u guys are saying now.. so here the lastest heartbreaking news..
I sent loth a beta 2.0 version... everything seems 2 be fine.. execpt with the pistols.. Since i used the pistols from the MP mod, he wants them 2 be removed.. I dont really understand why should i remove something thats not orginally his... H&K 9mm?? He never made that.. he borowed the script then added it.. I allrdy modified the pistols 2 the max.. I renamed alot.. changed speed, weight.. ect.. You cant copywrite gun balistics... I wana make sure before 2.0 is out so CBing can star that i have a "go" on this. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on July 18, 2003, 07:07:41 am Actually, he did, he implemented all those weapons into Ghost Recon.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on July 18, 2003, 07:11:45 am Loth cant say thoose files are his.. they look nothing like them.. the range are different.. the same.. the modifcation date.
ect... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 18, 2003, 07:15:05 am The current status of the CQB mod argument: there are still 16 of my guns in place and active. Mainman has been informed of this, and insists that because he changed the magazine size (on one of them) and the zoom (to 1x) on the guns, they are no longer mine. My argument is that because I invested hours in tweaking and testing those guns until they behaved exactly as I wanted, his modifications are not equivalent. I told him to remove my guns and make his own for his mod, like I did. He replied that because my guns are based on real guns, they are not mine and so I cannot do anything, and besides which, because he modified them, they're now his guns.
So anyway, I'm still waiting on mainman to remove the files. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 18, 2003, 09:04:59 am Exhibit 1: the Desert Eagle .50. First, the |MP| Mod version:
Code: <GunFile> And the CQB mod Desert Eagle .50: Code: <GunFile> Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Lazy Cringe on July 18, 2003, 09:18:00 am Mainmans slight changes are still considered plagiarism, and probably copyright infringement. From what i know, you have to change at least 20%, if not more, of a work for it to be considered something other than the original.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: mainmanjhdfjdfj on July 19, 2003, 07:50:01 am ok i removed them all..
Since basically we can fight over this later... the only thing left is the mp5's which i edited them and testing them out... ect.. from ghr basic file so u should have no issue with that. And cringe other mods have ghr m9 with changed clips... thats not copy write infringement. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 19, 2003, 08:05:56 am Using a game's original data in a mod is not copyright infringement because by making a moddable game, the developers expect (and want) people to work with and modify the original data. Using another modder's data in a mod is an entirely different ball of wax.
In your mod, you have two copies each of the MP5 and MP5SD. One each is mine, and you cannot use them. The other two are not mine, and thus I'm not going to complain if you're using them. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on July 20, 2003, 07:52:02 am okok... fixed offically.. meaning no more arguing.
loth just confired that 2.0 has the "go". Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on July 20, 2003, 07:55:11 am Latest update: Mainman sent me another version of 2.0. With the exception of one pistol (the Steyr SPP), it is completely free of my guns. It's still using some of my kit restrictions and kits, but I decided a long time ago not to bother with those. Mainman has promised to remove the SPP, so assuming that he keeps his word, this is settled.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: BTs_ST u RM on July 20, 2003, 01:23:33 pm WOW!!!!
I didn't know if I would live to see this!!!! Mighty big of you LOTH!! May we all kill each other much using the MP MOD and the CBQ MOD!!!! BTs_ST u RM ::) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: BTs_ST u RM[SER] on August 04, 2003, 05:03:54 pm Hmmmmm,
what's this? Loth's approval of CQB MOD? I hope Bucc and other [MP]'s don't miss this. How am I banned on [MP] servers? Certainly not because of the CQB mod? Now how will I ever try the WARZONE MOD that TWO (unnamed) clans are trying to push into the DAMN R6 Battle League, as [MP]s are pretty much the only people who enjoy this MOD enough to host it? I'm going to play some standard mp\c lms, BTs_ST u RM[SER] ::) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: crypt on August 04, 2003, 06:29:31 pm im banned from MP's servers because of who i am, which is complete bs, anyway, screw WZ, long live LMS.
peace, crypt Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: X1 Xaiver on August 04, 2003, 08:58:24 pm ::)
Well this is the most popular topic I've seen in a while but anyways loth I don't quite understand how you can be so forgiving since I am a modder myself. The question I have is how could you just give into mainman I mean the whole CQB mod whatever version it be now started as your work and the work of others whom recieved no credit at all. Just because he took most of your months of hard work out your going to let him use the rest? Well I suppose that's the way of the world having everyone copy off someone elses hard work for the fact that they either can't come up with the idea on their own or just to damn lazy to try. Well Lorathio I guess I have to respest you for being so forgiving but what he did to your work was just plain wrong. Now once more I'll say the CQB mod without the |MP| files is no better than the original version it's just a compalation of other peoples time and effort. Mainman knowing that I was a modder myself asked me how to remove the character and model files out of the Navy Seals mod so he could use them in his own. That's all the proof you need right there that he's no modder just a copyright infrigment expert if the copyrights were applicable. Like others have said Loth I strongly urge you to add a disclaimer to the read me file in your |MP| mod that your work is not to be copied or duplicated in any manner without your written permission even though he will steal it anyway at least you have something even more to fall back on. The X1|Clan will in no way support, endorse or use this mod in any manner so mainman quit asking me to use Loth's and countless others work that you call your own on our dedicated servers you lazy bastard. If you all want to use a real mod download the |MP|Mod at www.mp.macclans.com or the X1|Mod at www.x1clan.com. Now how's that for shameless self promotion? =P The X1|Clan - Xcalibur 1 Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: BTs_ST u RM[SER] on August 04, 2003, 10:48:33 pm If Loth approved the CBQ 2.0 MOD, why am I banned on [MP]servers? Xaiver, you admit in your post that you have played Mainman's mod--are you banned from [MP] servers too? If not, why are only some people banned for 'trying" it? Has any [MP] proof that I have "tried" said mod? Or has my name been pulled off a CQB roster that someone in my clan signed me up to? Please unban me!!!!!!
BTs_ST u RM[SER] ::) Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: S.p.i.d.e.r. on August 04, 2003, 10:51:38 pm About being blocked on the |MP| #2 server...I am blocked from there as well...
I have told Buccaneer, Lothario, and one other who's name I forget. Still blocked though. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Pooga fom Fooga on August 07, 2003, 06:24:26 am Where can I download thsi |MP| mod? It's for mac riiiiight?
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on August 07, 2003, 07:12:29 am http://mp.macclans.com I'm currently working on version 0.9, which will be feature-complete.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on August 07, 2003, 07:16:50 pm Loth do you use a pc to make mods?
If not do you know how to get pictures to match the gun? Thanks.... Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on August 08, 2003, 03:16:03 am this is reguarding to xaviers post that i think is old since hes allrdy gona be hosting it.
" Now once more I'll say the CQB mod without the |MP| files is no better than the original version it's just a compalation of other peoples time and effort." The only things that doesnt belong to the cqb team is the MAPs since we didnt have enouf time 2 make our own. AND YES i got written consents that i can use them. From Barny the map maker. No better than the origonal version? lol.. ask that 2 any body and theyll tell you. (true mod users) As for the character files they are ported from the orginal ghost recon and Halflife-Counterstrike porting. And their.. JYD said the cqb mod will be on the x1 clan servers. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Pooga fom Fooga on August 08, 2003, 04:52:39 am Mmmmkay when I clikc to d/l the MP Mod, it gives me an error that says:
The attempt to load 'Accessing URL: http://www.mpmod.no-ip.com' has failed. Hmm? Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Jeb on August 08, 2003, 06:06:36 am i stuck it on my idisk...
http://homepage.mac.com/farmerjeb/FileSharing.html this is the latest public release, .7 Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on August 08, 2003, 07:36:11 am bad link. jeby
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Mr. Lothario on August 08, 2003, 09:27:08 am The link works for me.
Fusion, I mod on a Mac. I'm not sure what you mean by "pictures," but I'm guessing you're referring to the kit icons. To do those requires a PC with Photoshop and the Ghost Recon RSB plugin. If you're creating kits using the original GhR weapons, you should be able to simply copy and paste from two kit icons which have the proper primary and secondary graphics. If you're making kits using new weapons, either get the kit icons from the modeler who made the guns, or if you're making the gun models yourself, create the kit icons yourself. There are tutorials on how to do so in 3DSM, I'm sure. Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Fusion on August 08, 2003, 09:59:20 am Thanks for the info Loth
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: killertoad on August 09, 2003, 02:00:13 am I downloaded the CQB mod hoping to expect more than a really cheap urban map and only a few new guns. I dont see whats the big deal with the mod, it doesnt even feel like RS. Ill get the MP mod sometime because it actually seems like work went into it and i heard the desert eagle was in it =D.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: crypt on August 10, 2003, 09:56:58 pm well, its kinda hard to make ghr feel like RS, but i think its really fun, it feels like Close Quarters GhR, it gets the job done, trust me, and there still was a lot of hard work put into it, play it more before you think you know anything about it.
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: killertoad on August 11, 2003, 12:45:34 am iv eplayed it a few times i didnt like it, the only part that feels like RS to me is the jumping
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: MainMaN on August 22, 2003, 07:19:34 pm i think in some real cqb combat people dont jump to dodge bullets..
Title: Re:About the CQB Mod... Post by: Styles on October 10, 2003, 04:06:21 am True.
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