*DAMN R6 Forum

If you are looking for the Problem Drop Box I have opened a new. Just go back to the BL forum and there you will find it.

hey, good news
nixon did not update the ?overall ladder
therefore if you subtract the stats form the R6 and RSD ladders you can determine ak's stats for the RS ladder
(yes i realize this is a triple post)

Ok, three quick things....

Yes Bondo, you should probably post and keep up for a while decisions made here so people can read them.   Sorry if I jumped a bit hard at that.

Second, attempting to cheat is just as bad as cheating in my book... as the intent was there.

Third, from what he posted and what he told me (NutterButter) it seems clear to me that Typhy did mean to do it and yes Cow stoped it.  Typhy claimed to have just made that rule up with Bondo and Ultimo and it was being written (according to NutterButter and which Bondo was going to confirm)....  So, since Cow stepped in and put a stop to it, I agree that expulsion isn't called for.  However I do feel that a clan is responsible for it's members... and much easier to police.... so I suggest that AK is punished, not Typhy (how can the battle league ever hope to actually carry out any punishment on an individual?)  Also, while Cow's actions do mitigate the situation, if AK is on probation (as you stated before Bondo) I think they still deserve a punishment and not for it to be labeled "no harm no foul".  Remember, it was this kind of thing that started the whole suspension talk in the first place.  Cow's actions should count for something... but so should Typhy's... and with the history, Cow's shouldn't outway Thyphy's.

Suspend the clan fro a week... come up with some kind of points deduction... something.  But doing nothing doesn't set a good example either.

Well that all depends... if you recover all the data from the battle league that was deleted (which I thought I read) then it's not a punishment at all.  It was an attempted punishment that was reversed.  I don't think having your data deleted for a few hours or days is really a punishment... do you?

Now, if that's not true and they fall to a 0-0 clan... then yes, I'd agree that it more then coverd (much more then I'd have given them) the offense of Typhy in this case.

But, if it's all back to normal tomorrow (or whenever Elandrion gets to it, if that's the case)... then AK was never punished... that's how I see it.  If that's the case, repairing the BL would be Nixon's punishment, right?  I didn't think so.

Welll Bondo, if it were the first time it happened I'd agree with you... Cow stopped it and that should count for something.  Just not everything.

But aren't they supposed to be on probation?  

And I'm still a believer that a clans members actions should effect the whole clan..  If Wrath had cheated or tried to cheat in a CB while we were in SWAT I would have agreed to the clan being punished for it....  Just like CIA got banned for the cheating of two of it's members...  the whole clan took the punishment, and rightfully so.  

So again, I don't think that they should be kicked for this, but even if Cow stoped him, Typhy still crossed a line, and he was acting as a representative of AK at the time, and they are supposed to be on probation...  letting them off the hook doesn't send a very posative message....

It's ok to try to cheat as long as you don't get away with it.....  Doesn't sound very good to me... especially since this isn't the first complaint.  

Punish AK, and let them worry about punishing Typhy...  They are the clan that needs to deal with him.  

Ok, there are two current problems.
On the case of CF vs. AK, after enough discussion I have decided that Typhy did intentionally try to cheat by falsely saying that he had helped create the new rule with me and Ultimo when that never happened. ?I feel the punishment should be either AK booting Typhy out of the clan, or if they choose not to do that, then AK will be punished (that option is TBD).
About Nixon, he clearly removed AK from the ladder without consulting anyone else. ?That is a clear abuse of power so he should be removed as moderator and BL admin and given the Romulus punishment of never being able to participate in the Battle League again.

Bondo, you and I both know that we put AK on a zero-tolerance policy after their previous actions and unruly behavior. Why they would choose to test our limits is mind boggling.

Actually, if it was a 'zero tolerance polocy', then maybe Nixon acted in good faith... shouldn't we hear from him??  After all, I know what zero tolerance means to me (and Bobby Knight) and this was clearly something above zero.  So, while he should have consulted his fellows, it may not be as bad as it first sounded......?

Also Bondo, ignoring the zero tolerance for a moment (which is a larger point), I would have phrased it the opposite way... that AK would be puninshed (and name the punishment) if they accepted Typhy's actions  (ie, not giving him the boot)....  

BTW, not to belabor a point... but shouldn't the other admins have a say in this too?  I thought you were supposed to look after the things they couldn't.... not deciding everything yourself.

I wasn't making a decision, I was voicing my opinion and waiting for the others to voice theirs.  About violating the zero-tolerance, AK didn't, Typhy did.  You guys have to seperate the two, AK did their best not to violate it by stepping in and saying that Typhy was wrong about his "rule".  Also the point of my suggestion is the same as yours Grifter, if they don't boot Typhy, it will be seen as them not taking action for his cheating and then they will be held accountable.  And Nixon is in no way justified even on a no tolerance policy to boot AK without determining with others that it was a violation of said policy.  Nixon has no excuse for his actions.

Bondo, ignore my last PM except for the part about the two incidents being separate.

I would think that AK has 48 hours starting from now to take action or action will be taken against them.

Agreed, the ball is now in your court AK, make your choice.

Wow, something new. ?I just want to get this clear, he told you that he told |CF| that he made a rule with you and Ultimo about CB'ing Training Maze in Overtime and it simply hadn't been printed into the BL rules yet?

I would like Typhy to respond so I can hear his side of the story in THIS forum for me and my team to make a decision upon his actions. ?This is more in depth than what I had understood. ?I will take appropriate action. ?You can count on that.

Rapid, it's not new... it was mentioned in a few posts by both me and the guy from CF.... deleted now, but were there none the less. ?Hence why I think it was clearly an attempt to cheat and not a simple misunderstanding.

Ok here is the deal, Typhy by most accounts claimed that this new rule had come from a meeting HE was in with me and Ultimo.  Assuming he said this then there is no question that there was an attempt to decieve (if not to cheat).  It doesn't matter if he tried to gain an advantage or not, that blatant lying isn't any more accepted.  Maybe if he hadn't said the he himself was there I would think he misunderstood it and that this whole deal was about nothing but it hasn't been the case from talking to Nutter and Cow.  Typhy, you are welcome and encouraged to speak up for yourself.

Okay, Speaking as one of the only 4 people who really know what did happen in this battle, Yes, I do belive that is what I said, I don't know what I was thinking and I know that in doing that I let many people down, I most sincerely appoligize for my actions.  Please, Take this against me, not my clan, if any wrong doings happened in the battle I come here to take full responsibility for them. It was late at night, however that does not excuse my actions in the slightest bit and I am most sorry to everyone.

Here is what I feel that happened in that battle: It was a good battle, we went to a tie at 5-5, I had been told by KotA Coffin Dancer in an earlier battle that overtime games would be done at Training Maze, I tried to work things out so that we would each get an equal ammount of hosts.  I do feel that CF shouldn't be complaining about this because, Considering that my actions didn't effect the battle at all.

Once again, I am sorry for this, please hold these actions against me and not my clan. I am most sorry to everyone who I let down.

-Typhy

Booting me from |?K| Wouldn't be a fair punishment for me, I have done a lot for my clan including start it. It wouldn't be correct to boot me for one poor action, only regarding one action. For this I have punished myself, I have personaly suspened myself from leading a team into action. Meaning that I will no longer be doing to talking for my team. This will be in action until July 1st.
Cheating wouldn't  be an acurate description of what I did. I am the worst player in the world at training maze, I use a Sub Machine gun, not an assult rifle making me not all that great in really really close combat.  I understand that I let down my clan and many other people, and as I said in my other post, I most sincerely appoligize.

-Typhy

lol, hey typh, i think you need a class in bullshitting, it was a good shot though

maybe rapid can give u a couple courses in it at an agressively low price?


8)

See Typhy, the problem I have isn't with you saying (be it falsely) that there was this new rule.  If you indeed heard that from Kota, why didn't you just say that.  The part that takes it from a mistake that wouldn't be punished to a serious offense is that you made up a story about hearing about the rule in a ficticious meeting with me and Ult.  It just doesn't make any sense that you would make that story up for no reason whatsoever.  I'll leave it up to the other admin to see what they think about your self imposed two month suspension.

Bondo: I have no idea what I was thinking, Give me whatever punishment that you and the others feel that I deserver, Perhaps that will teach me a lesson.

Well, I'm announcing my motion. I have now asked for my whole clan's vote on booting Typhy from the clan from his actions in the |CF| CB. ?I will believe everything cow tells me, since he was there, and will now take a vote as a team on booting him. ?We are taking this vote based on all allegations and evidence. ?I ask *DAMN(Not Nixon) to give us their vote as well based on the allegations and evidence. ?We are gonna proceed with the motion and will await for everyone's votes (Or majority if some don't log on in the next couple of days). ?Our trainees will even be able to vote on this, for they are the future of |?K|. ?

Moderators, Please send me any opinions that you have on this, I will send them out in the news letter to all members, that way they will have everyones opinions regarding this matter.

Ok, here is my revised suggested punishment pending the AK vote.  I think the punishment should be a 3 month suspension of Typhy from the BL.  During that time he would not be able to be in any clan nor participate in a CB.  After the 3 months he would then be considered for readmittance (think parole board).  All the AK vote affects is not Typhy's punishment, but AK's punishment.  AK punishment could range from none, to suspension, to points lost depending on how things proceed.

Disclaimer, this is my view on punishment and not an official decision unless the other admins agree to it  ;)

Bondo, you know my stance about self-imposed penalties...

All I have to say is that AK has about 24 hours to make the correct decision or they will hear from myself and the other moderators...the only question is: Will AK do the correct thing?

(I am not joking, the shit will hit the fan unless action is taken.) -assassin

But kicking AK would be just as self-imposed, they could all change names form a new clan and be back on the ladder.  I don't see why we would give a penalty like that but not consider doing the same to an individual.

dude, anyone could just change their IP, change their name, and get a new GR account, and start over.  That's not really the point.
When i was like 5 years old and did something bad, and i was "sent to my room" i just went up there and played computer games, no biggie.  But eventually it became boring and it was the fact that i couldn't leave my room that started to piss me off.
Lol, now getting to the point: The point is to piss them off and make them do all the work to do all that stuff (make new clan, new name, new everything) and THAT is the real punishment, to know that he can't be "R?p?d" any more.  Of course....  they could still be a clan.... which sucks that u can't really ban a clan from GR and only the BL.....  Rapid was right i'm afraid.... AK is here to stay.....  :(

Changing names and coming back on the ladder is not likely Bondo...we have managed to keep Romulus banned from the ladder for a while. Individuals are easy to change, entire clans aren't. Kicking a clan would send a message...think about that for a second.

AK, please post your response within 24 hours in this thread.

Gorf, your analogy doesn't register with me, I am usually forced to leave my room  ;)

Sin, about sending a message, I thought the CIA thing was a message.  Also, the death penalty is supposed to be a message but it doesn't stop crime.  I don't believe in punishment as a deterrent, I believe in punishment suitible for the crime and AK getting removed doesn't (unless they don't take any action in the next 24 hours).  I also think that the fact that Typhy could get around the punishment isn't a reason not to give it.  It would be his choice to try to decieve us, but we can't always avoid that.  Just like in prison, maybe the prisioner can escape but we still send them there.

Sin: You're saying that |?K| Should be kicked from the ladder for one sentence of words that one player said that actually didn't effect anything? That doesn't make sence at all.

-Typhy

Again, it isn't fair to take action against a clan for one action that one player in the clan did that didn't effect anything.  Personaly, I think that a 3 month suspention is to much however I think that it is a lot more fair than punishing the whole clan for one thing that one person did.  Basically, you're saying that  I should have a suspention of 3 months and my clan should be ban from the ladder all from 1 sentence of chat??

When you put it that way, sure it doesnt make any sense. I meant that if AK doesnt take suitable action, they are liable to getting kicked.



Kicking CIADID send a message to the people who were around the league at the time...the only problem is that with the influx of newbies to the RS realm, this message was not heard by them (Not just AK, but all of the other rather new clans and players that have sprouted up recently).

Sure they could escape from prison, but the guards go after them like rabid dogs...most who escape get captured again.

May I please ask that the genral public stop posting on this topic, This should be between the |?K| and the Moderators. This isn't the place to give your opinion, Do that in Genral Gossip, This is the place to present the moderators with facts.  Sence the Genral Public wasn't in the battle, they do not have facts.

-Typhy

God what have I started with the Criminal Justice comparisons. ?Almost reminds me of the time when in my Pot Thread we had a long hypothetical situation with fake name people, that was fun, but unfortunately this isn't.  And Typhy, I agree that this problem is only needing to be discussed between AK and admins.  I've moved the other thread on this topic to the Gossip so it can be talked about there.

And if Typhy escapes (reappears in the BL under a different name) we will go after him like rabid dogs and like an attempted escapee he would get more time added on (permanant ban just like with Rom which has worked for the most part).  I think Typhy would rather be banned 3 months rather than life so he would heed the punishment.

Guys, I have already shown that I will not try and cheat my way onto things, If I would do that I would just simply force you to do what I said by abusing my power and banning some of you and threatning others. Also Bondo, that post by me had good points, I will move a copy back here.

Guys, the question here shouldn't be wether I would come back under a diffrent name or not, It should be wether my actions warrent a 3 month suspention, Personally, I think that any suspention would be way to harsh.  Really, Bondo, Please, I liked that post that I made, It really showed everything and how I was being treated unfairly, Please bring a copy back over here.

-Typyh

You are free to post anything that I deleted that you think is important but be sparing with your words, most of what you had posted wasn't clear enough to be helpful.  And I think we should hold off on any punishment talk until AK has made their decision, then we can actually make a decision that would be final.

I'm posting here for two reasons... 1) I've been around long enough to kibitz and 2) it's not dirctly about AK or it's punishment, but about why a clan should be punished and not an individual....

Bondo, banning a clan is more effective in the least over banning an individual because 1) the clan's identity is bigger then the individuals... it's not just chaning one account. 2) Even if everyone in the clan got new accounts and reformed under a new name... they'd be starting from scratch.  0.  Bottom of the pile.  That's something that wouldn't happen to an individual.  A clan can't hide like an individual can.  

BTW, before anyone knee-jerks.. notice I've not talked about kicking AK or what penelty should be imposed... just that I firmly believe that yes, a clan should be held accountable for the actions of it's members (it's part of what a clan is.... not a community like GR or your local town... but a tight knit group of people that chose to be a team.  People that disagree with me should probably go back and look at how whole clans would go to war over an insult to one member by someone in another clan).  We chose to call ourselves CLANS... it means something.  Also, to pull from the sporting world... if players in a university get caught being bad... the university is often punished and not allowed to go to bowl games or the like (not as common in the 90's and such as lawyers are now filing suit over lost pro contracts).

Anyway, the point is that yes, both in the ability to uphold punishment and in history (from clans of old to our own Battle League) it's been shown that yes, a clan is responsible for it's members.  It has nothing to do with making the punishment fit the crime... so please don't bring that up... this is just to where the punishment should be directed.  I know where Bondo stands on this... what about Ult and Sin?

Again, there is a thing called "Suitable Punishment regarding the crime", Banning a whole clan from this isn't suitable punishment for me saying that overtime games should be played on training maze!

Okay, Trying to be reasonable has gotten me nowhere, I hate doing this but here goes: This is the biggest load of bull shit that I have seen in my life!!  Punishing one person for saying somthing that they thought was correct which didn't effect anything is BS. Punishing a whole clan for somthing that one person said that didn't effect the battle at all goes far past being bull shit,  And gorf, you're one of the stupidest people that I know, Why don't you just Get the fuck out of the thread considering that it doesn't concern you at all!!

Sorry that this has to come to swearing at people however, The civil approach didn't work so I had to try this one.

-Typhy

     Okay, Out of everything that I have posted, I want this to be what you look at to represent me in making your decision, Let?s start with stating what happened.

     |?K| vs |CF| Clan battle, |CF| Leads 5 games to 4, battle is going well, there has been a very little amount of lag, the whole thing is good, |?K| Wins the overall 10th game, evening the battle at 5-5, I then say, ?Okay, Now we go to training maze for the next games, we can do this more than one way, The idea is that in doing this we each get equal hosts.? We agree to play 4 games, 2 on each server. If one side won 3 out of the 4 games then they won, if this didn?t happen then we would think of something else, I then say ?The games should all be done on the map Training Maze?, Then that's where things started to get a little weird, Somewhere in my comments I guess that I said ?That is what was decided at the rules meeting?. Cow, Kit kat, and Nutterbutter then convinced me that I was wrong, and that it should go just as a normal game would. I agreed and everything went fine, on their server as our maps we did: Old Train Tracks, as their map they did: Siberian Base I. They won the first game on Old Train Tracks, We won the second, Then we moved to our server, They chose Siberian base I and we won both games on that, ( I guess they didn?t know that Siberian Base I is my best map ). After the battle we congratulated each other on a good battle and made an agreement that we wouldn?t make posts bragging about the win because it was such a close battle, everything was fine, I went to the Forums, posted the results and things went find.


     The next morning when I logged on, I heard about the posts that they had made, I went to see them, I was ( And still am ) Very confused as to why they would want to post that considering that it had no effect as to the outcome of the battle. People then started complaining about me, Personally, If I did say that was a rule that was decided at a meeting and all, then I don?t know what I was thinking.
     Now people are saying that I was attempting to cheat, I don?t agree at all with that, I was merely going with what I thought was the correct rule. If I was trying to cheat you into doing a map that I am good at I am sure that I wouldn?t pick Training Maze, I use a HK MP5A4 or an HK MP5K-PDW, ( Both Sub Machine Guns ), this makes me at a disadvantage in close combat against an Assault Rifle like an HK G36K or a Steyr Aug. If you ever see me trying to get people to play Siberian base I for overtime, Then you can say that I am trying to cheat, considering that Siberian Base I is my best map.

     The fact that Training Maze is one of my worst maps,
( Right along side Graveyard and Nuclear Power Plant ), I wouldn?t try and cheat to get people to play them. If I truly said that we decided that at the rules meeting, then I have no idea what I was talking about and that can be considered a lie, I have been brought up never to lie, that is why I am very supprised and still unsure that I said that. A lie is something that will get the clan that I am in a bad reputation. If this is considered a lie and not an attempt to cheat, then this shouldn?t have anything to do with the battle league, it should be a matter between me and the other |?K|.

     As I think should be very obvious by this, |CF| Has just showed that if you want to get someone in trouble it is very easy to do so. I was very supprised to see that they had posted this because:
1.) It had nothing to do with the outcome of the battle, or even really the battle at all.
2.) During the battle we got along well, we had a fun and exciting battle which was very enjoyable to play in.

I can be sure that had |CF| Won this battle they would have never brought this up. Again, it all goes to show, that if you really want to get someone in trouble you can almost always find little things to do so with.

     Tell me if you think that this is suitable punishment for lying: Being booted from the clan that you started and have spent hundreds of hours perfecting and getting a 3 month suspention from the battle league.

Compare that to a sports incodent: Let?s say that Steve Young told a lie regarding a game that had absulutely no effect on the outcome of the game or any part of the game, Is it fair for him to be: Cut by his team, and suspended from playing football for 3 months? Over one lie that didn?t effect anything? The answer should be obvious. Sence the answer is obvious that ?No, that wouldn?t be a fair punishment?, then the answer to me getting in trouble should be the same.

     If you think that I should get a 3 month suspention and be booted from my clan for this, then you have serious problems.

Also, when you make your desision please contact me and we will set up a game, I don?t want this to be the thing where you just post it and it happens, I want it told to my face.

-Typhy

Gorf, Listen you Forum Lying piece of scum, if you would have done proper investigation(like the Moderators do) you would know that Bondo stated those actions taken in the past were not necessarily rightfully executed. ?But since you are so obsessed on seeing |?K| booted off the ladder, like you admitted in your "aggressive ways" by lying and spaming nonsense, you won't shut the fuck up! ?Now I look at moderators and ask to please Delete ALL of his threads and let us deal with this. ?Not some dork named Gorf::)who we have already seen lie and exaggerate in the past...

TEXTOk guys,I just wanted to ask all the moderators,and even you gorf the piece of fucking trash left on the sidewalk after EVERYONE exept your brother is against your actions.Anyway.....whats the point of all you people hating all us |?K|'s for no reason.......I joined ak becuase i was promised a good caring clan and CB's.Ive been waiting for a clan like this since PsYcO(thx for that period of time sin
8) ) Anyway,ive never had a more caring clan,and i want people to like me for me and not hate me or judge me for bieng in AK.And as the matter with typhy,i think a suspension would be perfect....but to kick our CLAN....now thats a load of bullshit.
Thank you for reading.
                 

Where do I begin, ok first off, I don't think the fact that Typhy can get around the individual punishment. ?We shouldn't make the punishment worse just because we can't enforce the punishment we give. ?We have to assume that our punishment will be followed.  Also, we gave a permanant ban to Romulus from the BL and that has been pretty effective, so there is no reason to think it wouldn't be again, especially when it is a non-permanant one where Typhy would want to behave so that he could come back.

About us punishing AK, we aren't planning to punish AK for your actions, we are going to punish AK if they show that they accept your actions Typhy. ?Seeing as Cow stepped in to set you right there is no way AK should be held responsible for the incident itself as they did their best to prevent it, but they need to show good faith by applying their own punishment to you.

Typhy, you don't need to try to defend yourself, we are past that stage. ?I don't care if it was a slip up, most people don't accidentally make up incredibly intricate lies such as having been in an imaginary meeting where an imaginary rule was made. ?I don't care whether AK stood to gain or not, it is the lie that is being punished, not the result. ?Look at the big red rule, what is happening here falls under that. ?The only thing left to decide is what your punishment is, and what if any will AK's punishment be.

Ever head of "Public Humiliation Punishment"? Well thats more of the kind of thing that this warrents, Sence it didn't effect or have anything to do with a battle, a suspention of battle privlages would not be the correct punishment.

The punishment should reflect on what the crime was, If it is a crime like cheating in a battle, then you should get your battle privlages taken away, If it was making a fool out of yourself, perhaps your punishment should be making more of a fool out of yourself

I swear Typhy, can't you just make two paragraphs rather than two posts.  Also you don't really need to post anymore, we've agreed that you are guilty of intentional lying.  The only question now is your punishment and that is something for me, Ult and Sin to work out.

Sorry, however I think that you would respond too if people were deciding the fate of your 9 months of work!

how  does this sound for punishment(provided ak doesnt do what you want them to)
ak suspended form the battle league for 1 month
typhy is suspended from the battleleague for an aditional 3 months. of course, if either try to get around the suspention, the length is doubled, or extended for life

does that sound fair, then you are punishing both the clan and the offender for their actions

While I like your attitude of giving them a punishment with an end on it and only kicking them if they violate the punishment, I think even what you laid out will be light in that situation.

Since you ask, I'll compare it to two actual incidents...

1) Pete Rose.... his betting on sporst violated rules and keep him out of the hall of fame.... because he broke a rule.  Had nothing to do with his playing (it was after that)... had nothing to do with his coaching (it was never about that).  He broke a rule and is banned from the game and the hall of fame.
2) Bobby Knight... his grabbing of a student by the elbow in itself is a joke... but it was a violation of the zero tolerance probation.... and he was given the boot.

So, the issue is that you told a big fat lie in a CB, while under a 'zero tolerance' probation.  That means it doesn't have to effect anything.  Why you did it doesn't mean much either (who knows or cares what maps you are good at).  It's an easy concept.  Again, this has nothing to do with the punishment, only why there needs to be one.

[/color]

Hey guys. I have been away for a couple days, so i can't pretend that I am completely in the loop with this whole situation. But help me understand something; Typhy made a blatantly false claim during a CB, about OT in the training maze. No one acted on this statement, and OT was played on a map other than the maze? So essentially, it's like me being arrested for claiming to have committed robbery, even though I never set foot on the scene of the crime?! Can you punish someone for talking out of their ass? Not at all, that IS the stupid foundation for the way all of the RS clans operate. Please shed some light on the whole subject of punishing someone for false claims, and nothing more...
I am NOT trying to argue for or against typhy, please understand how ridiculous this all sounds to someone who just found out about it. maybe i am missing something, and if Typhy is suspended, so be it. But since we are losing one of our very best players, I do need to better understand why. Thats all.
Peace. Let's play the GAME and remember what it is.

Yes.  You are missing something.

Typhy tired to cheat.  That is just as bad as cheating in itself.

Call it whatever you want.  But when someone lies to trick the other team into doing something they don't have to do, that is cheating.

Buckshot, read the other threads and you will find answers.

Gorf you idiot:

1.) This doesn't concern you at all.

2.) I made a 3 page post showing how it wasn't cheating. ?Read up you iliterate fool

Thanks for the examples Grifter, I can work off of those, First to Bobby Knight, All that he had to do was leave Indiana, now he is happy again with Texas. He didn't get suspended from the NCAA Tornament or anything, just fired from Indiana, also, tell me which is worst,

1.) Grabbing kids multiple times
or
2.) Telling 1 lie that didn't effect anything.

Now, it should be obvious which one is worst, but then why am I punished harder than Bobby Knight??

Now, on to Pete Rose. ?As soon as he admits to what he did, ( Betting on games ), then he is into the hall of fame right away, I have already admitted to what I did, so, again, which is worst? Betting on sports which clearly violates a writen rule, or lying on one thing that doesn't effect anything??

-Typhy

After Reviewing the incident, and taking votes from our clan and *DAMN, we have choose to Boot Typhy until further notice. ?We will keep him out of our clan until *DAMN feels the punishment was sufficient. ?I believe it is 3 months, but I ask you guyz if you could please consider it just 2 months (3 is a bit harsh). ?Anyway, typhy is now booted from |?K| and hopefully he will come back a stronger man after he does his time. ?Also, by Typhy being suspended/booted, does that mean you guyz will not allow him to be in another clan, meaning suspended from BL? ?That's what I had understood, but I'm double checking. ?Thanks Moderators and sorry Typhy. ?When we have a vote, and all vote against you, nothing I can do. ?This is for the better of our clan, and we will become stronger from this experience. ?|?K|*R?p!d?* <?lan Leader>

And since I been reading everything on this matter, I am glad Things were straightened out by cow and had a fair outcome of this CB.  Thank God this didn't affect the outcome as stated by Bondo before, and that the CB will be counted.  

I think that this is very sad for the battle league, This is not the right thing to do. Again, Just review my older post showing everything, Over one lie, I get the boot from my clan, and the boot from the battle league.

I see where you are going Typhy and here's why I think you are wrong.

Bobby Knight was on a zero tolerance probation, like AK.... and zero tolerance has a very narrow meaning... that being the zero part.  So, he got fired for violating the zero tolerance probation with his last scolding of a kid that had disrespected him... nothing to get fired over in itself... except for that damn zero tolerance policy (and I'm a huge Knight fan).  BTW no NCAA sanctions because the incident that got him fired happened on campus with some loser, not anything to do with B-Ball.  What you did was in a game.

Pete Rose's betting was no worse then your lie... and it was years after he played ball... so again, no harm at all... but still, he broke the rules and has to pay.

CRIME
Typhy, it's been decided that you did attempt to cheat.  Attempted Murder isn't murder.. but it's still a crime.  (that was for BuckShot and his bad analogy... to be more accurate in your analogy Buck... Typhy walked into a liquor store with a broken gun and asked for all the money... the clerk saw that the gun was broken and laughed and said no.  Typhy left the store without a dime and nobody got hurt.  Typhy still is guilty of attempted armed robbery.... doesn't matter if you actually succeed except in the punishments).

PUNISHMENT
Which brings me to... If Typhy had cheated... that's grounds for kicking AK out of the BL (as has been done in the past).  CIA was kicked for attempting to cheat (they cheated and still lost, and their cheat backfired on them because it didn't work).  So, attempting to cheat actually got the clan kicked and Rom banned (the rest of the clan could come back as a new clan or join others and did... FBI was born).  

Now, there are two other factors in the mix here... another AK member stoped the cheating on the spot (big plus for Cow and AK) and AK was already on "zero tolerance".  My problem with Bondo's early reaction to this was it takes Cow's actions into account, but not the zero tolerance... like that was forgotten.  To me, these two factors are pretty much a wash... but that's for the Admins that put them on zero tolerance to decide upon.  Those that don't understand that should really look up what zero tolerance means.

Typhy... a word of advise, since you are acting more logical then not... and this is real advise.  Argue one point at a time and keep them seperate.  Pleading innocence and objecting to the harshness of the punishment in the same posts makes it lose some of it's gravatas.

My issue here was about individual punishment vs clan punishment... which I'm still waiting to hear from Bondo on.  I just figured I'd reason with you on this since you asked Typhy.  
[/color]

While Pete Rose's betting was after he retired, it was also while he was a manager, He would go to the other players etc and bet on games.  While CIA tried to cheat, The fact with this whole thing is that I didn't try to cheat, I suck at Training Maze, there is no way that I would try and cheat them into doing that.

-Typhy

Heh, It says that my post is too long, Please just read down for I have to use 2 post for this.

Okay, This is proably my last post regarding this topic.

Okay, from what I see you have decided that I attempted to cheat, in this, I will start by saying that if I was going to try and cheat to get to a map that I am good at, I would not try and get them to play Training Maze, I would try and have them play City Street Large or Siberian Base I, Not Training Maze. If you convince me that in doing that I was trying to cheat, Then I will accept the punishment, however there is no way that I will accept this if all that you have is a testimonial that says that I said something about a rules meeting. If I said that, then that's a lie, not an attempt to cheat, Also, if it was an attempt to cheat do you think that I would back down so fast when everyone started telling me that I was wrong?

I have been in 3 overtime battles for the league, 1 against KotA, one against *NADS and this one against |CF|, In those battles, against KotA, we did Training Maze because that's what Coffin Dancer told us, That overtime games were played at training maze, Against *NADS, I think that we did City Street Large, I don?t know why I say to do Training Maze there, Personally I think that if you?re looking at attempts to cheat it would more of a cheating attempt against *NADS in not saying that we?re suppose to play overtime games on training Maze considering that's what I thought was correct, I guess that I just forgot in that battle. This should tell you that I was not attempting to cheat, Now, comes to the lying part of that, if I did say that, I am most sorry, I don?t know what I was thinking, Overall considering that it didn?t effect the battle at all, I could say that I was just exercising my freedom of speech. I think that if we did play it at Training Maze then it would be fair to say that I cheated, or just that the battle wouldn?t count. However, sense it didn?t effect the battle at all, then the only charges that I can face for this are: Lying, and Attempting to cheat.  Now I have already showed you that I wouldn?t cheat to get to the map Training Maze, ( Theoretically speaking, really I wouldn?t cheat to get to any map ). There are so many cases saying that I didn?t try to cheat, and there isn?t really one saying that I did other than that's what some people just assume, I could make a case saying that there is no complete evidence ( Screen shots etc. ) that can show that I did this at all, Just people saying that which isn?t enough evidence to prosecute. Because I have heard from Cow and the others that I did say that and I trust them, then I will not lie and say that I didn?t say that. Basically it comes down to the fact that out of the greatly limited evidence that you have you can?t make any case against me. Considering that you can?t make any case that I attempted to cheat, for you have no facts at all. Just things that people assumed. I have facts, like the fact that I use a Sub Machine gun which makes me bad at small places like Training Maze, also the fact that I just plain suck at training maze. The second one of those is just overall an opinion I guess, however the first one is a fact, there's one fact right there, that's more than anyone else has showing that I attempted to cheat.

Next comes the question what is a fair sentence, Even if you do totaly ignore everything that I say and go ahead with what you think and not what I ( The only person who knows what I really meant ) knows, then the only things that you can prosecute me for are: Attempted cheating, and lying, considering that the attempted cheating charge covers the lying charge, the lying is dismissed, that leaves only with attempted cheating, now, the fact is that most likely one of these happened, Either attempted cheating or lying, for attempted cheating, think this way, if I am convicted of that, do you think that being booted from my clan and having 9 months of hard work be gone is enough punishment? What this really comes down to is: Is it suitable punishment for me to booted from my clan, lose 9 months of hard work, Lose a good portion of my respect, and lose my rights to battle for 3 months? Really it will end up being a lot more than 3 months considering that I have no clan to come back to, I will have to start from scratch and try and recruite a new team, this isn?t easy, it takes a lot time to get a team and make them the best, is this really a fair punishment for any 10 words to text? No matter what they say? I can think of many 10 words of text that are far worst than this. I have sevral lives, my Gameranger - |?K| - Rogue Spear - Battle league - Ambrosia boards life, my Sports life ( My sports life is the biggest and best one ), and my family life. Is it really fair to lose one of my lives over 10 words of text no matter what they say? I really don?t think so. Honestly, Here is what will happen if I get the 3 month suspention:

Yes, thank Cow for being honest and upfront about the whole thing. ?Also thank CF for they never contested the CB at all... just brought up the point about Typhy. ?NutterButter said the CB should count. ?So, the CB was never in jepordy, since almost everyone actually involved acted well.

1.) I will lose my clan.

2.) I will lose much of my respect.

3.) I will lose my battle privlages for 3 months.

4.) The 3 months will become more like 6-8 months, becuase I will have lost my clan, so I will have no one to battle with,I will then have to start from scratch which takes a long time to work up a clan good enough to battle. It?s not an overnight thing.

5.) During this time I will lose a lot of my intrest in Rogue Spear sence the thing that I enjoy is working with the |?K|s and battling. Then when I come back I will not be as good of a player and I will have a lot of trouble starting a clan as I will not be as good of a player as I am now.  

All that over 10 words to typing? Thats not fair at all. To give a sentence like this you have to have the evidence to show that I tried to did cheat, Considering that you have no evidence and no proof, I am perfectly inocent of the charge of cheating, all that it is, is what people think that I atempted to do, I am the only one who knows the truth about what I really thought, and this is it, I didn?t intend to cheat, and I didn?t cheat. The only acurate charges that I could face for this is lying and is this a fair sentence for lying?
1.) I will lose my clan.

2.) I will lose much of my respect.

3.) I will lose my battle privlages for 3 months.

4.) The 3 months will become more like 6-8 months, becuase I will have lost my clan, so I will have no one to battle with,I will then have to start from scratch which takes a long time to work up a clan good enough to battle. It?s not an overnight thing.

5.) During this time I will lose a lot of my intrest in Rogue Spear sence the thing that I enjoy is working with the |?K|s and battling. Then when I come back I will not be as good of a player and I will have a lot of trouble starting a clan as I will not be as good of a player as I am now.  

Think. Is that really a fair punishment?

-Typhy

Grifter, I dissagree, There was no reason to bring this up, it just goes to show that if you really want to get someone in trouble you usually can.

Here's the short and long of it, this is the DAMN Battle League which is entirely seperate from the United States, Professional sports leagues, and any other real life comparison you could make. ?Just because something happens one way in real life doesn't make it a precedent that we must observe in making our punishments.

Rapid, yes Typhy is banned from all clans as he is banned from taking any part in the BL for three months. ?And Grift, I believe I've made myself clear about individual punishment. ?The fact that he can cheat his way out of the punishment shouldn't be a factor in the punishment's merit, there will always be things beyond our control. ?But for you to think it can't work is to ignore that it has, for the most part, worked with Romulus who was given an individual ban (the fact that the clan he was in was booted as well didn't make it any harder for him to try and violate his punishment). ?In terms of being fair, offereing a chance at recovery in those involved, and IMO in being effective, my punishment is the best. ?If we were to just boot AK, there is unfair punishment, no chance at recovery, and they could just start up a new clan. ?Also, AK has now taken the steps to prevent the act and to punish the act so they shouldn't be held responsible for it. ?So my view is, Typhy gets his punishment and that is that, end of story.

Typhy, about your punishment hurting you, well duh, otherwise it wouldn't be a punishment.  And I think my suggested punishment is extremely fair.  You have to consider that my punishment is likely less than what Sin would suggest.

Isn't that best asked to your clan? ?As they are the ones that decided upon it....

Typhy, it seems like the question to the Admins is: if AK isn't taking care of things what (if anything) will they do to AK? ?AK is being given the chance to circumvent any potential problem by takinng care of itself.... ?What they decide is really between you and them... no? ?

Bondo, I know your opinion, as I said, I was asking the other admins theirs (since you are only one of them).  You also know that I don't agree with you.  You harp on one point about being able to enforce (how do you know you've done it with Rom and how do you know it would have worked as well if the clan hadn't' been banned too... you don't... and it did make it harder IMO).  You've continued to ignore the points about CLANS that I brought up, what they are supposed to mean and be about.  

Oh, and I never mentioned booting AK, as I think that wouldn't fit either... don't assume.

Bondo, the reason that this isn't the way that it would be a sport or the real world is because this is BS. I didn't ask wether the punishment hurt me or now, I asked if you thought that it was to much for only 10 words of text

Omg, 9 months of work gone, my clan gone, my battle rights gone, everything gone, all over 10 words that didn't have any effect over anything,  :( :( :( :(

Okay, This has gone way to far, *DAMN and the battle league do not have the rights to tell my clan that they must boot me or action will be taken against AK, It is my right to be in the clan, You can tell me that I can't battle, However it's my right to be in the clan This is not aceptable.

Typhy's suspension is LUDACRIS!!!! I am luanching a full invesigation into this cb. DAMN is acting like the U.N. in Americas polotics. Do this to your national parks or else be kicked out. e.t.c. Typhy has not been proven guilty! yet. I suggest someone else help me investigate. Preerably Bondo or Grifter. I want an investigation into this. From Cow's veiw (a reliable view) there was no cheating involved. Typhy was mistaken. We now need to interview privatly Kit Kat and Nutterbutter. Especially Nutterbutter further. The DAMN clan is interfearing in our sovrign clan!!! I am even compelled to make a new BL not assosiated with anyclan what so ever. Please do not bann typhy for three months. This is way to harsh. Even if found guilty. He has a right to be in ?K. Battles he participates in myt be deemed invalid by the BL. But kicked from his own creation is ludacris and inerfears in AKs inner workings. There was no contract that we signed that would say we would be booted from the clan if we attempted at cheating. I ask again Where is your proof. Show me the proof right below this post. WHERE THE HELL IS IT???!!! Do not interfear in our clan polotics. Grifter I ussually agree with almost everything you say, but I bang my shoe on the desk (acting like Kruschev) over this outrage. A more appropriat punihment is to deem all cbs typhy does for two months invalid. I am sure when ?K signed on to the BL we did not think we would be blackmailed into banning one of our own members.  I suggest the punishment I have come up with if he is found guilty.

Exactly, Show me the evidence. If you don't have an Evidence, then I am inocent. easy as that.

omfg TYPHY

#1.) ?Stop posting 3 or 4 messages in a row, all you have to do is hit the modify button

#2.) ?YOU SIGNED UP FOR THE BL. ?Therefore YOU agreed with all the terms, conditions and rules. ?The DAMN BL preserves the right to ban any clan due to unacceptable behavior.

#3.) ?"It is my right to be in the clan, You can tell me that I can't battle, However it's my right to be in the clan" ?Typhy, the point is, they have already slammed the hammer down. ?Either you leave AK, or AK leaves the BL. ?Stop trying to argue in your defense of the cheating thing. ?They have already found you guilty, therefore you can now stop pleading innocent!

#4.) ?Bondo. ?Grift and Sin are saying that a person is held responsible for their actions in a CB. ?That is how it's always been done, and you can't just change that all of a sudden. ?WHY MAKE AN EXCEPTION? ?because u feel bad for them? ? ?well u didn't feel bad for rom now did you? ?and the two leaders of AK are just as bad as him now aren't they? ?Dude, there is no such thing as "i think that punishment is too harsh." ?They broke a rule, period. ?They will take the consequences, period.

#5.) ?All they are doing bondo, is using "it was only 1 line of text" to make you feel like the punishment is too harsh.

#6.) ?Sin jump in any time. 8)

I was wrong in the post abov and it is totally useless. Cow reportably came out against typhy. I do not believe this. I will find out straight from the cow's mouth.
I am truley sorry. But I still think my punishment is better. Typhy should have know that the Training Maze is not the required map to play on OT. Aweful sorry about the last post. But he should not be banned from other clans. That intefears with his right as a gameplayer on gr. Plus who gave DAMN all this power?????????

Actually Cossack, you are still agreeing with me... it's Bondo you are disagreeing with. ?I'm the one that thinks it's wrong to punish the individual... that the clan is what should be punished in all cases of the Battle League. ?(Going back to the fact that I believe that CIA being booted was right, while Rom being banned is wrong). ?

I think that any punishment for any rule violation should belong to AK, not to Typhy....

As for the punishment fitting the crime... ?You guys are jumping the gun a bit... ?First, this is AK's reaction to a suggestion by Bondo. ?Second, the other admins haven't even said if it's acceptable.

The only thing clear so far is that Typhy lied and tried to cheat. ?Yes, I'll say cheat because it doesn't matter if it was stupid, or of no advantage or any of the rest... Typhy lied about being in a meeting with Ultimo and Bondo and making the rule which was being typed up that night (or something to that extent from the posts I read). ?Cow seems to have validated this all with Bondo. ?The Admins seem to agree that it was wrong. ?After that... it's all a bunch of posts about opinions. ?As for me, I'm not a BL admin... I'm just a guy that's been around longer then most and trying to talk reason.


Wow, four posts while I got that out... hehe... I am a long winded fuck.

Gorf, this doesn't fucking concern you at all you mother fucking dumb fuck, I have had enough of your shit.

Thanks for the info ;D

Gorf, that's not true.  Nobody said AK would be kicked.  Nobody has said what (if any) punishment AK would be faced with over this.  With or without Typhy.  Only a suggestion was made, with the notice that the punishment could be from nothing to being kicked.

This is the littlest of little things! Any suspention at all is totally unreasonable. Again, If you say that I cheat then show me the evidence

Losing me is enough punishment for any of us!

Thought i'd make a quick comment:

What does this have to do with *DAMN the clan?  Isn't it the moderators and those people who are enacting this punishment? (yes, they DO have the right)

Nobody has the right to "look into Damn the clan's actions".  *DAMN controls everything on the BL (thank god).
What they say goes...right?

In typhy's punishment, i'm guessing he can't battle in a clan or CB, but obviosely, he can still play on gr.  Not all is lost.

U say u value your respect typhy, but everytime u flame at gorf, me, or anyone, u lose more of it!

As always, correct me if i'm wrong on anything

Yes, i know it doesn't REALLY concern me but i just wanted to put my two cents in (whatever that means)   ;D ;D

Look,im totally with damn,but im afraid im going to have to agree with cossak.DAMN DOESNT control gr,therefore why cant he join onother clan?(not that i want u to leave typhy)

I'm not going to bother trying to reply to the posts specifically as there have been so many, I'm just going to say that Grift (and whoever else thinks my punishment is soft or that I'm weakening it for AK), I haven't once changed my punishment since the thing started.  3 months suspension for Typhy no matter what.  AK punished if they don't boot him.  That hasn't changed through any of this.  I've been very strict on this matter, I just have a different view of what effective punishment is.

Goku, Typhy is welcome to join any clan that isn't on OUR Battle League.  We don't control GR nor do we claim to, but we have full right to do anything we feel necessary concerning the BL that takes place on the site or anything else to do with the site.  This is simply a matter of, the individual goes, or the whole clan goes and it is the clan's choice.

Grifter, about your idea of a clan and how each member is a representative and that their actions are reflected on the clan, in this instance that is horseshit.  AK tried to prevent this from happening through Cow talking Typhy down.  AK can't be blamed for doing everything in their power to prevent it assuming they take action afterwards (which they've done by booting him).  Therefore the clan isn't responsible.

Well my investigation is coming to a close. Cow said that typhy did say that he was in a meeting with Ultimo and Bondo. Sorry Typhy but I have found nothing but bad news for you from all of the cbs participants. Sucks dosen't it. I still have to talk to KitKat. I am pretty sure what he is going to say. Nutterbutter told me that you did say that you were in a meeting with Ultimo and Bondo.
**************************Note*****************************
This was the concusion of my unbiased investigation!!

Umm, you better re-phrase that Rapid... "until further notice" would leave the door open for him to come back.

As for AK as a whole...I have one thing to say to you (Rapid specifically).

Keep a leash on your players because if anything like this occurs again (I dont care if it was one rogue player) kiss your ass goodbye fromt he Battle League.

Yes, I am sounding hypocritical when I am backing off of the death penalty, but one more incident and I will personally pull the lever on the Guillotine.

"Fair Punishment" in my eyes:

1) Typhy is prohibited from participating in Battle League actions for at least three months

2) AK suspended one week as a warning (when their scores are re-instated)

3) AK given death penalty warning.

As a side note, nothing should happen to Nixon for this incident...mistakes happen. (Bondo, it was the same thing you pulled in the General Gossip, he felt it was in his right to do such a thing, but he obviuosly knows that he was wrong now.)

I see you are starting to take after Rapid and not actually read what I post Bondo... I actually think the 3 months is too harsh.  In all my posts I stayd away from that subject.  I was very clear that I was not making a suggestion on what the punishment would be.  Thanks for paying attention.  As for what I would have suggested.. you have no idea... don't presume to know.

As for you sticking to your punishment... I thought it was supposed to be up to all of you all along, not just you.  So you and I disagree on it... maybe Sin and Ult see it my way (about it being clan and not individual).... I said that before as well.

As for AK taking care of it... cow took care of it.  I wouldn't call that everything in their power to prevent it.  The scarry thing is that if Cow hadn't stoped it... CF probably never would have taken screen shots and this all would have been swept under the table again.  

BTW, how much of it was Cow talking Typhy down (and how much CF just not buying it)?  How do you know?

You seem to be making a bunch of assumptions here....  The ones about me are wrong... again.  You really don't know me at all.

What was this "rule" just wondering?  

yea, i was wondering that too. was it something stupid and obvious?

(1)  This is what i meant to say ealier Grifter.  Ak doesn't seem to understand that IN ADDITION to typhy's 3 month suspension, they have the choice of either booting him from the clan, or being punished.

(2)  AK didn't boot typhy at all... Look.



"Come back stronger"?  i think there must have been a mis-understanding in bondo's post because they think typhy is coming back for some reason.  Maybe they thought u meant that they were to suspend typhy from AK for 3 months.

PS - i strongly agree with assassin's post above.  and as for rapid's post after this one: Rapid, i am not flaming here. i am stating facts just like they wanted. please take a chill pill for i am being very sensible in the matter and not going on a swearing rampage like your next post:

Gorf, Why in the fuck do you keep posting on this fucken thread? ?This fucken has nothing to do with your peanut brain Clan! ?Stay the fuck out of this for you are not a fucken moderator and we don't want to have people reading your fucken MISINFORMATION. ?*sorry bout that, but this kid doesn't get it and no moderators are moving his threads like they said they would about anyone not involved in this matter*

Now for Assassin, Typhy is booted. ?I was told by Bondo "You will be able to recruit him when his suspension ends but until then he must not be part of the clan in any facet as the clan is part of the BL and he isn't allowed to take any part of the BL." ?So I hope Typhy learns his lesson and I will follow the rules and will be happy to recruit him like I was told when his sentence is over. ?If you find harsher punishment than that, then I guess all you guyz need to talk things over and give me an opinion again. ?I already asked for *DAMN's opinion and Bondo, being the most informed in this matter, had given a ruling on it. ?All of you had a chance to voice your opinion and I was under the impression you were all respecting Bondo's actions. ?Now I hope you are not trying to overwrite his ruling because of your personal feelings towards me and my clan.

The "rule" was that all OT battles had to be played on Training Maze.

Gorf, AK did boot Typhy.  Typhy after his punishment is finished would be elgible to rejoin AK just like he would be elgible to rejoin the BL.

Grifter, sorry for not remembering everything you do and do not say.  I sometimes get lost in your 500 word tomes.

Hey Bondo how stupid are you man dont delete my posts i think the ppl what to hear why i did that you fool  :o   anyway i talk to Mauti personlly about this get your DOG nose out of my ass it dont smell like roses or fool bah Nixon

Bondo, please tell me you aren't deleting Nixon's messages (that he's wrong).  

Yes, I deleted some of his posts because they were incoherent bable that didn't add anything to the discussion.  That is allowed in this forum.  Deal with it, I've deleted a lot of posts in this thread as they got old or if they weren't relevant.  I think between all the posts on both forums where you explain "why" you did this that everyone knows.  You did this because you thought you'd enact the zero-tolerance rule despite that rule not giving you the power to do what you did and despite the fact that AK didn't violate the zero-tolerance rule.  Also add in that you claimed you kicked AK because you were pissed off at them (see the title of your thread in Gossip).  It is clear to see that personal feelings took a large part in why you kicked them.

Assassin, please tell me what rules |?K| Has violated to get on this "Zero Tolerance" thing, all that has happened really to get us there is that people have complained about us, if you're gonna do that then you're saying that if we complain about people enough for no reason then they willl get the same as us?

-Typhy

Okay, we already knew that I had done this, The question is does this warrent a 3 month suspention and being booted from my clan? I think not, also, I do have the right to be in a clan, It's not the battle league's right to boot my clan because I am in it, They can not count battles for my clan that I am in however, it's not their right to boot us becuase I am in it.

-Typhy

Sin, don't give me that shit, it is not the same. ?I never enforced anything, I posted what I wanted to happen, they told me no, I said ok. ?That isn't something that we can do with Nixon's action. ?His action is not something others can respond to before it takes action. ?And it was no mistake, it was because of his personal grudge against Rapid and AK. ?He got into a fight with them on GR and decided he'd punish their not being nice by abusing his power. just looks at what he posted in his thread about it (now in General Gossip). ?I agree to your punishment laid out in the AK matter, but I will accept nothing less than Nixon being kicked as admin as his punishment. ?Maybe he doesn't deserve a Romulus ban, but he shouldn't be an admin anymore.

Ok, this is completely different. ?First of all, Thank you Mauti for restoring our score on the RS ladder. ?My question now is, how come Nixon(who supposedly did the last update of wins) didn't input any of our wins on the Drop Box? ?We had a win against TAF, one against <SA> and one as you all know, against |CF|. ?Now can you please explain what happened there? ?Thanks, |?K|*R?p!d?*

Okay, I've posted enough here, I've tried my hardest, now things are out of my hands, I just hope that Mauti and the others make the right choice.

-Typhy

"I will accept nothing less then Nixon being kicked as admin..." How about you don't give me this load of shit.

First, your fellow moderators all feel that it was the same thing... so your peers are judging that Bondo.  We all think it was damn near the same exact thing.. You didn't suggest shit, you made a choice, posted it, deleted some posts, and locked a bunch of threads.  We said no and unlocked all the treads back.  You took action.  We repaired it.

Nixon took action... it's being repaired.  You have your reasons for doing it and thinking it was ok (when we don't agree with you), Nixon has his reasons for doing it and thinking it was ok (and we don't agree with him... I don't think).  You are making a judgement that he did this out of spite.... that's your opinion.

Your wanting Nixon booted is also your opinion, and welcome you are to it.  But what is this "I wont accept anything less" bullshit?  And deleting posts by people accused in the Battle League is what got Zak tossed, isn't it??  So don't say it's perfectly acceptable here.  Some of us want to hear what he has to say, and may not have seen it before you deleted it.  That sounds like you acting out of hate for Nixon...... is it?  

I haven't heard what any of the other Moderators think about it... except for Sin's post... but what gives you the right to demand his removal??  Hell... I demand your removal for acting like a fascist asshole about this!!  How does that sound???  We can deal with this amongst the moderators, or we can deal with it in public Bondo... but we will be dealing with this.  Your choice.

I can't help myself, I just have to respond to this, Grifter: Sence it is being fixed it has no effect on anything, Same with what I did! Being suspended from battle league and being booted from my clan for much less of a crime than Nixon's?

Ok, I think one of the main reasons Bondo doesn't want Nixon back, is simply for his lack of Good Attitude and Presentation. ?Tell me something Grifter, when you guyz kicked Romulous from BL, did you guyz go acting all childish and go posting on GR, "Hah asshole romulous, you are now Gone. ?I told you I would have you gone" and other taunts of the same kind? ?Cuz if you didn't, guess what, your other Moderator Nixon sure did. ?He came into GR talking about, "I booted You!" ?"I warned you not to fuck with me" ?"You are gone and no one can do nothing about it" "You talked shit to me one too many times" "How You like being booted, you dumbass". ?Is that the way you boot someone Grifter? ?You go taunting them and put it in their face in a childish matter? ?And if you don't believe me, I did take ??'s of him doing this. ?I even sent one to Bondo to ask him if this was proper behavior. ?This is probably a reason that he got so mad at Nixon's actions. ?I am mad at him for talking to me the way he was after I made it a point not to talk to him. ?He kept metioning it was my fault on why he did what he did, and when I asked him what I DID, he simply avoided the issue and still has avoided it to this day. ?There are plenty of reasons in the book for why Nixon ?should be gone, and this was one of them. ?I'm sure there are more...

Typhy... that's exactly what needs to be discussed and determined. ?And, like you, Nixon deserves to be heard, not have his posts deleted. ?Bondo seems to have convicted and sentensed Nixon without talking to anyone, which is where my problems lies. ?The difference I see between you and Nixon is that it was determined that you lied... it hasn't been determined if Nixon acted out of malice or just haste (in my opinion). ?

Bondo (and any others) yelling to boot Nixon before talking to him and about it is just as wrong as anyone that chimed in on booting you are AK without knowing anything about it..... see the difference? ?Timing... this being very premature.

Rapid, everyone reacted differently to Rom's punishment... some even taunted him (I was not one of them).  If Nixon taunted you about it, that's as poor taste and judgement as Bondo taunting Nixon about it (even if that post is gone now).  Is that worth giving Nixon the boot for... I don't know... I'd be willing to talk with the other moderators about it... but I'm not comfortable giving Nixon any less rights to be heard then you or Typhy.  Bondo is acting harsh and rash, I'm trying to step back and say ok, what happened, why, and what should be done about it.  

Remember Rapid, when it comes to shit like this, I always leave my personal feelings at the door.  I've supported AK in some issues even when I can't stand you personally, because it was the right thing to do.  Now, just because you and Nixon hate each other... and Bondo seems to have been on Nixon's case all along, I'm calling out for that same fairness.  If Nixon is that wrong, it will come out, and he will be treated accordingly, I have no doubt of that.  But I don't believe in lynch mobs either.  And not hearing from him and deleting his posts smacks of it to me.

Grifter, Bondo has been nothing but fair. ?If you remember straight, the 1st time he stepped in was during the DisneY incident in which he was sticking up for Nixon all along. ?After he started seeing proof rather than claims, he made fair judgements on the issues being. ?Now in this case with Nixon, Bondo has been the most informed out of all of you and NOT BIASED, and has made his decision and judgement on again, proof, not claims. ?So as much as you dislike Bondo for sticking up for us, he's doing what's right and I thank God there actually was someone as reasonable as he has been throughout this ordeal. ?Now, you have completely suspended Typhy from BL for 3 MONTHS(unless I hear otherwise like hopefully 2 months) for his misreprentation and advised us to boot him or boot us for not acting on it(Not as if we weren't gonna act on it in the 1st. ?Not the 1st time we suspended Members for misbehavior, not the last. ?Last time an |?K| was suspended, was during the SWAT CB(our 1st BL CB) when players acted against Direct Orders). ?Now while you took harsh punishment on Typhy, I see nothing but Harsh Punishment for Nixon. ?Especially when he claimed it was because of ME that he booted us and then failed to show proof. ?

Know that *DAMN runs a respectable BL and that's what Bondo is representing and expects all you to represent as well(Because I'm sure that's why Mauti gave him his spot in the first). ?He has done thorough investigation and has acted and speaked in result of it. ?For you to not respect his descision/word and go taunting him in public, is truly unnecessary knowing there are Private Messages available in this forum. ?Learn from him and carry yourself in a more respectable matter rather than choose to publicly attempt to humiliate him and his word. ?You have been given a position that I don't always see you respect and honor. ?Consider that next time you go acting like "word of reason"... ?Public Display shows how together "you" moderators have it together. ?By all the confrontation, doesn't say much...

i agree with every single word grifter has posted in this forum.

so go back and read grift's posts if you haven't because they are 100% accurate

Get it through your thick fucken skull Gorf, your word means nothing and you are no one to trust after all the false accusations you brought forward against |?K|. ?Now stay out of this matter that has NOTHING to do with you. You Nosy, Ban-Wagon fool.

*Sorry about losing cool with Gorf, he just don't get it*

Moderators, please Delete Gorf's post that has nothing to do with this situation since he's NOT a moderator and is NOT in |?K|. ?Public Gossip Forums are made for Gorf's opinions, not here. ?Now please help keep him out of here. ?thanks

Rapid i have the right to post my opinion.  If they don't let Gorfs post here, they shouldn't let assholes(Yours Truly) either.

      8)8)

Basically, Bondo and Assassin, you're saying that I should be booted from my clan, Booted from battle league when you have evidence that I attempted to cheat? That is BS.  Also, You have no right to say that I have to leave AK or you will boot them / punish them. Thats not fair at all, if you really belive that I tried to cheat, and you have no evidence, then you really don't have grounds to prosicute me at all.

-Typhy

Gorf: Your only on fucking grifters side and fucking nixons,becuase they are against ak,so stfu  

Grifter, I deleted ZERO posts in General Gossip in relation to the AK thing. ?I did lock the threads but I did not delete any posts so I did nothing essentially but lock a few threads which Ace immediately unlocked, great, that is nothing. ?

I knew that I wasn't going to be liked for being fair to AK rather than hating their very existance, I was prepared and still am for what it gets me, but I take the moral highroad so I can handle anything thrown at me knowing that I'm being fair.

Another thing, Nixon posted the scores but didn't include any of the AK scores and yet still deleted them.  Just another blatant violation from him.  We desperately need him removed so it can't go any further.

Oh and about deleting Nixon's posts, I deleted a few one line posts that were nothing but cussing or other nonsense that wasn't really him defending himself.

Grift, I know you are currently on a campain to convince everyone I'm doing bad things and those who dislike AK are believeing you, anyone who can see clearly won't.

Rapid and Bondo, nice to see that your reading skills are getting even worse.

Bondo, You know exactly why I'm pissed at you... and it has absolutely nothing to do with AK.  Don't go trying to bullshit that one.  You don't have shit for the moral high ground (hmm... same thing the guys that bomb abortion clinics say... isn't that funny.... you'd fit right in with that fascist crowd you arrogant ass).  My problem with you is that you are on a one man crusade to make this place into your image... whatever the hell that is.  You don't even attempt to work with any of us.  We tell you things nicely back in the start... you don't pay attention.. we all tell you that we think you did just as bad as you are saying Nixon did... you still don't listen.  Of course, you have to be right while all your peers are wrong... that's right... don't even consider the fact that you are reacting in exactly the way you are bitching at Gorf for doing.  You act like your opinion is the only one that matters, with the rest of say that we want to hear more.. that we want to know what the other moderators opinions are.  You have no respect for the rest of us Bondo... how can we have any for you?

Now, Rapid, if you'd care to read carefully, I've stood up for AK's rights in every case here as well (since Bondo's been involved).  Because it was the right thing to do... and I like that neither one of you can read, but both assume that I wanted AK kicked.  You are both scarry wrong (like so often), I think that the punishment Bondo put forth was too harsh myself.  But you guys not only assumed the worst.. you didn't even read that!  So at least get your facts right.  

I've stated my opinion that we need to hear from Nixon and discuss it many times before screaming for his head.... he deserves that as much as anyone.  You have taken the moral sess pit in regards to Nixon Bondo.. you are slinging mud.  Remember... with Typhy, it was made clear that it wasn't a mistake on his part before you passed judgement... why doesn't Nixon deserver the same oppertunity to discover the truth?  You two are talking about justice, while showing none.  I'm neither defending nor opposing Nixon... we are asking to hear about it.... what the hell is wrong with that??  We did the same with Rom back in the day too.  What are you afraid of?  If you are right and he did this with malice... he'll get what he deserves... if you are wrong, you are wrong.  What's the harm in finding out?

Grifter, my post wasn't entirely in reply to you so no I wasn't reading incorrectly.

So why doesn't Nixon deserve the same respect and justice and fair play you seem to show others?  Didn't you admonish him for saying shit like AK should be driven from the Battle League... while you are now saying things like you wont stand for anything less then his removal?  

The only difference between what you are bitching at Nixon about and what you are doing are only in your own mind.  

Oh, and I forgot to mention this earlier... Deleting any posts of someone you are slinging so much venom towards is irresponsible.  Rom said the same things about the posts he deleted too.... I don't care if you don't find them relevant... why should you be the only judge?  Didn't you yell at Nixon for deleting some of Rapid's posts??  WTF is the matter with you that you don't see how you are reacting to Nixon?

Not in this case Rapid. ?He's been fair towards AK.. but then again, if you read back, you'll notice I agreed with him in each and every case too.




I'm sure that's why Mauti gave that spot to everyone else here too... including Nixon and myself Rapid.



Rapid, thanks for pointing out that which you just have no clue on. ?First, we've used private messages. ?I gave Bondo the choice of doing it here or there... he's chosen his arena.

Second, I'm not respecting his decision because of two reasons.. he doesn't respect that of any other moderator around here (in my opinion) and because I think he oversteps his authority (not consulting with any others, changing decisions without checking after others have already agreed upon a course of action... need I go on?).

So Rapid. ?You don't have all the facts... best you join Gorf in the peanut gallery or you can choose to keep doing exactly what you have been bitching at him about. ?Since my beef with him has nothing to do with you.

Grifter,you cow stealer,stop putting an E infront of everything dumbass

LOL Goku.... don't make me come over there and spank you now...

Actually, those bad characters seem to pop up now and then.... especially if you go back and correct a mis-spelled word in there... something in YABB.  

I think Cow saw the light and got out himself...and I am sure it didn't take much to convince him.

Assassin, after looking at your last 11 posts, 10 of them have been about |?K| And none of them have been nice, Bondo: Does that tell you a little why your proposed punishment for me is so much less than Assassin's?

-Typhy

Typhy, no comment, not going to go there.

Grifter, the difference is that Nixon was demanding AK be kicked out with nothing to back it up.  My demand that Nixon be kicked out is based on the fact that he has now twice (recently) abused his powers to wrong AK.  First by removing them (restored now) and now by deleting their CBs without posting them, denying AK two or three wins.  None of which he did with consulting anyone or having any reason.  I think it is 100% clear that I am right in my demands and for you not to feel that way in THIS instance is insane.  You are not paying attention to any of the facts that are so abundantly right in front of you.  From the two actions above, from Nixon's threats over the past two months that he could not post AK CBs and could kick them out.  His bragging that he booted AK.  How can you possibly not see the incrediible amount of incriminating evidence that demands swift punishment.  On none of my decisions have I not allowed time for the other admins and anyone else to talk about it.  On none of my decisions was so immediate action taken that someone was forced to undo them.  You keep saying that what I'm saying about Nixon is what I'm doing, but they aren't even close.

Stop posting here(except it explains in few sentences what happened the last few days) - I'll rename this thread and open another BL Drop Box thread.

I only read few posts but it seems that we have a problem here that has nothing to do with Nixon's action at all. I read about a 0 tolerance rule WHO THE HELL has decided this rule???? - I didn't but it seems Nixon deleted AK of this rule so who made this rule and what did it say? Bondo can you explain?

I am confused and about the other AK cbs Rapid wait  2 or 3 days until I really have understood whats going on here...

Thanks,

Mauti

Well, basically zero tolerance was meant to say that AK had been warned earlier that they were being a problem and that if they were to have further incident that they would be booted.  Apparently Nixon didn't understand the concept that it was zero tolerance of a huge incident of clear cheating on the part of the clan and still needed everyone to agree that it was a violation, not that it was to be applied minus discussion and for petty arguments or personal violations.  But in terms of how the policy came to be, we agreed to it as a policy specifically for AK instead of giving them a punishment at the time.  The no tolerance bit was a consesion for me to get the lesser punishment for AK after I had seen signs of great improvement from them.

Bondo, there in your last post is exactly the problem I see with your issue with Bondo.....

They had a "zero tolerance", not "normal toleracne" policy right?  A huge incident of clear cheating is enough to get anyone kicked, no matter what has happened before, isn't it?  True zero tolerance means taht absolutly nothing will be tolerated... right?  Which means no matter what cow's actions, an AK did something wrong in a CB and therefore was to be kicked... right?  That's the way I would have read it.  That sounds reasonable to me.  

Now, should he have done it without talking to anyone... no.  Should he have rubbed it in after because of his personal dislike for Rapid.... no.  Does either of those automatically mean that he twisted the zero tolerance policy to make it happen.... no.

I'm very sane Bondo... but I don't see it as cut and dry.  I don't see it as very clear.  Neither did Sin, and I haven't heard from the rest.  But just the fact that two of your peers see thing differently in regards with a third of your peers, should be enough reason for you to take one giant step back and listen.  The reason I've been calling your a fascist is very apperant by that comment.... we are all insane if we don't see it to.  No, we are wanting to talk about it, which makes us very, very sane.  Yes, Nixon has done something wrong... but how wrong is a very serious question.  

btw, before you jump the gun here Rapid.... I'm not saying I think AK deserves to be kicked.. because I actually don't.  I'm saying that it's understandable that Nixon would interput it in this way, because I would have too (according to how I read "zero tolerance"... I just wouldn't have acted upon it.... that's called wisdom and is learned with age... sometimes

Also,

Mauti..... great to see you are back man.  Have a cold frosty and toast to your health and being out of the Army!  (do Austrians drink their beer cold... I can't remember?)

One more time I did it because i thought we had a zero tolerance with the clan AK ?i see i was wrong said opps sorry so drop it fool JESUS ?>:( once again nj Grifter and Gorf your posts make the most sence of all posts here ?8) and as far as the AK posting{in drop box} they were not on the list at the time I HAVE and WILL post there games in the future as long as there is no contest like there is alot that was no abuse of power you fool bondo get of my back and just do your work ok bah Bondo you need a Boy or a Girlfriend i think your just to uptight man

Grifter, at the time Nixon kicked AK, they had just been accused of cheating and accused does not equal guilty.  And the zero-tolerance thing really was a misnomer I guess if Nixon mistook them pissing him off in a GR chat to be untolerable.  The sad part is you give me this it may have been a mistake in regards to the zero-tolerance policy when my post outlines why it was so much more.  My post had a welth of facts that show unequivically that Nixon's booting of AK was no misunderstanding.  And the fact that AK wasn't on the list means that you leave the CBs in the Drop Box until they were, not that you delete them.  And I've just looked and they still aren't posted.

Bondo, why can't you get it in your head... your wealth of info seems like a change purse to some of us....

If Nixon took the zero tolerance policy to mean the typhy's lie was enough, then he choes it (wrongly, but in good faith)  Ask Bobby Knight if accused doesn't equal guilty in a zero tolerance situation....  That could be the case, I don't know, I want to find out.  As for his actions afterwards...  taunting them and such.. that in itself is bad taste, not a crime.  Not posting results is logical... deleting them while knowing this was in open issue (I'm making an assumption that he deleted them, because I've seen nothing buy your post regarding it), is bad.

Bondo, the sad overspoken point is that you are screaming for his blood the same way he was screaming for AK's... and you admonished him for being wrong at that time.  Some of us would like to hear the whole story, and from both sides before throwing the rope up over the branch..... you know what I mean?  There is absolutely nothing wrong with us wanting to hear both sides.... remember, you aren't completely clean yourself here... deleting his posts before we could read them was stupid of you as well...  because you aren't the single source of judgement.  How do you know that the rest of us wouldn't have seen something you didn't (since we see things differently so often).  Or don't our opinions matter (to you)??

HWG again i ?deleted it because as a supended clan the cb was not going to count ok they are back on ?i see good Grifter you really undstand my postion and i thank you for that ?it is correct !!!They can post it again and it will be counted end of story JESUS bondo you take this to seriously this job here mistakes happen we all are not perfect live with pal bah Nixon 8)

Nixon, it's not that I think you are right... I think you did many things wrong.  I just don't like the way Bondo went after you, under the guise of justice.  You made a couple mistakes, so has Bondo.  Mauti is going to take care of them now.  

All I wanted is to settle down and take these things one step at a time.  And figure this mess out.

Nixon, same things I say to Bondo I say to you as well... you shouldn't make the big decisions without talking to your fellow moderators... we are all here to work together.  Talking to each other keeps us from making these kinds of mistakes.

I don't support what you did... I just understand how you could make the mistake and didn't want to see you railroaded out of town because of it.  You deserve the same consideration that Bondo shows everyone except for you.  I didn't think you were getting that.  It doesn't mean I think you were right either.  But now that Mauti is back, I'll leave that for him, as this is his place.

If you and Bondo learn to work with the rest of us, I think everything will turn out ok, no matter what comes of these mistakes.

Typhy,you fucker....i cant believe you..YOUR SUCH A FYUCKING FUCKFACE!You got kilzo to leave becuase of your lying sack of shit mout,and yes,i have screens.Asshole,i hope your never back in ak,youve pulled to much shit now,and your seriously gonna pay,kilzo was a good friend,and so were you,but this is to far.Typhy,go take you fucking pills and stay away from me.

                  -----Goku

Grifter, what my clearly laid out argument showed is that Nixon wasn't accidentally thinking he was doing the right thing, but rather was doing an intentional act out of hate of AK that had nothing to do with the zero-tolerance part.  That is just his crutch.  And no Nixon, AK's scores haven't been posted and they haven't been returned to the drop box, they are still deleted and wrongly.  How could you possibly be stupid enough to decide that it was right to delete the CBs after being yelled at for being wrong about kicking AK.   Do you not learn anything?

God, get this guy out of here! ?You deleted us because of all your wrong assumptions and lack of communication with other moderators like you're supposed to. ?If you would like to see the screen of how Nixon told us we were off the ladder, visit our site and I will post it up there. ?Also, he violated plenty and has sided with DisneY back in the day, and has now took it upon his hands to BOOT us without anyone's consent but his own. ?He took it upon himself to go booting us and said it was because of ME and failed to show proof when requested and still failed to this date. ?(He switched his story when Grifter advised him he probably did it under the 0 tolerance "rule") It is obvious he had no one's permission to do this as others have voiced out against him. ?He said he did this on his own, and thought he had the power to delete clans at HIS will. ?Not only that, but he has caused others to turn on Bondo, when Bondo is the most fair soul you'll ever meet. ?He sided with Nixon back in the day with the DisneY ordeal, but when he saw proof otherwise, accordingly changed his mind. ?Now Bondo (he counts more than me cuz he's a Moderator) and I both saw Nixon claim he was DisneY and then changed his name to DisneY. ?Also, it is now known that I never lied about accusing Nixon being Bias towards us, as the evidence has proven all that correct. ?As much as Grifter likes to attack Bondo for having more say on HIS BL HE CAME UP WITH FOR ALL OF US TO ENJOY, Grifter is only a GOSSIP MODERATOR and really has No say on anything going on in the BL for he has been speaking out against Bondo with NO proof of anything. ?Yes Bondo has deleted posts, but he had reason. ?Yes Bondo gave everyone enough time to read and respond, but others choose not to respond. ?As soon as sufficient time goes by and no response from any moderator, he deletes the useless threads, and right away he gets attacked for deleting, rather than those that jump on his case about deleting, don't even bother to respond to show their views until Bondo deletes it. ?He has executed all his motions accordingly and I hate to see people jump on his case simply because he's defended us in the past and it is obvious that People like Grifter, Assassin, Nixon and Ultimo has had grudges against me for not letting them have their way with me. ?It is obvious that vengeance has been in a lot of these moderators eyes for a while and if they have to blow something little, like an accusation, they will to make us look bad and attempt to get us booted. ?I thank God Bondo came in to stop all this nonsense from going on. ?He thought of the idea of BL for all to have equal fair fun. ?It has now been taken and scandalized into a "Inner Forum Circle" corruption, where they have their own private meetings not including people like Bondo and choose to act against those they personally dislike. ?One executes, the others back him up. ?They choose number over logic and attack poor Bondo with that. ?Too bad that you can't outweigh Bondo's Role here. ?He created BL and he can very well have all the final say in it. ?So while you go insulting and accusing Bondo, think of who you are doing that to. ?The most honest person that Made BL happen for all of us. ?He is the last person to let a bunch of clowns have their way with clans. ?And believe me, he has done an awesome job to prevent BIASED decisions from happening. ?Shit, we would've been gone if it wasn't for Bondo. ?The "Inner Forum Circle" would've simply had their way with false accusations... ?Now wouldn't that make BL way corrupt if Bondo wasn't here stopping all the nonsense with valid investigations and proof... ?One to think about next time you go shouting at him Grifter, Nixon and any others that might choose to...

1 more thing, Bondo doesn't ?have to put up with this asshole calling him names on a job HE made available for him. ?Nixon disrespects Bondo and his word and should have NO position moderating on something Bondo came up with.

What you clearly show is that is your opinion... ?what you don't clearly show is the same restraint that you expect from Nixon. ?I have never said guilty or not guilty... I'm not even defending Nixon... what I'm doing is saying YOU should back off and let this thing get sorted out. ?By deleting his posts and judging him without anyone hearing from him, you Bondo, are making Nixon's case stronger. ?

Bondo, you are doing exactly what you are yelling at Nixon about.... letting your hatred of him override your common sense.

Rapid,
as for you, you really are a dumb ass shit, aren't you.  First you accuse me of doing it in the open and not in PM's.... Then you accuse me of being part of some inner circle conspiracy (which I guess includes everyone here except you and Bondo).  

Get a couple things through your stupid ass head.  Nixon has every right to swear at Bondo, especially as I've seen posts where Bondo let loose on Nixon.  They are peers here... equals.  Just because you like one and not the other doesn't make one more important.  Second, Bondo has as much claim to the Battle League and Forums as I do to the new league stuff... he didn't make it... he just had an idea.  He's talked about it... so what.   He didn't make it happen... this isn't his private league.  Just because you feel he is the only fair one here (which you are dead wrong about) doesn't make it so.

As to why I have a right to speak here.  Ask Mauti if I have a right to speak here.  My opinion is heard, believe it.  And just like Bondo had the right to voice his opinion before he was a BL moderator (which you defended back then) so do I.  I've earned it as well.  You just continue to be a fucking hypocrite asshole Rapid.  You must have a freaking reading disorder because you keep coming up with these really outlandish stories.  Nice facts you have here.... HAHAHAHA.  You simp.  The shame of it is that the rest of AK isn't just like you, so I can't just wish that they'd all go away.  But then again... I hear they are leaving anyway....

Blah Blah Blah Grifter goes on....

Try proving why Nixon should stay, and stop doubting Bondo on his actions. ?He already told you he had facts and proof. ?What else do you want? ?And no, we're not losing our members, they are losing us... ?

While all this nonsense have made certain members leave, it will only help sort out our weak minded from our strong. ?Now all that reason with us and understand the matters clearly, stick by their guns with us. ?

Do yourself a favor and yourself a favor and stop Accusing Bondo of doing something wrong. ?Nixon fucked up, he threatened me he would boot our clan at his expense and he did. ?If you let him get away with that, you are just letting corruption overtake this BL. ?But Bondo is Anti-Corruption, so I see this place being honest and saved. ?If Nixon stays, you can count on more crap just like today with him deleting all of our scores for CB's which he has failed to repost after being asked to and after saying he would. ?He will not do anything favorable for |?K| No matter what and if he does, it's only a smoke screen for something really corrupt like deleting us from the Ladder and Taunting us about it as if it was a *DAMN decision. ?It wasn't. ?It was a Nixon decision. ?Deliver the Punishment. ?All the time he's had to stick up for himself, and has yet to do so and keeps letting his "lawyers" do the talking for him. ?Try letting his sorry ass type up his excuse for all his wrong doings, including being in DisneY and trying to Vote against us in a |?K| - DisneY matter which clearly showed Bias Abuse. ?Yes, it is true, he was a DisneY and proved it to Bondo(and me plenty of times). ?Now his quest to get back at me ever since I pulled his card on that issue, has been neverending as he keeps at it anyway he can and will not ever change. ?Solve this "BL Problem of Nixon"

Rapid, you are a simpering fool.

Get it through your head... my beef with Bondo has nothing to do with AK.  Nixon in DisneY is a big SO WHAT.  There is no rule about it, it is not wrong.  Stop bringing it up.

Bondo doesn't have the right to act the way he has been anymore then Nixon.  That is the whole point you ass.  Stop just reading Bondo's posts you moron.  Why don'y you quote me where I say Nixon shouldn't be punished.  Or where AK should be.  You can't, because I've said neither.  I'm talking about something you just don't seem to be able to grasp.  If you understood the words honor or noble, you might.. but to you they are just words that sound good on your web page.  Bondo should have to be just as fair to Nixon as he is to Typhy or AK or anyone else.  There is nothing special about Bondo that he should be above his own sense of fair play.  

You Rapid, are just trying to confuse the two issues.  Don't.  You are being worse then Gorf was with Bondo.... take your own advise and shut it, eh.  My beef with Bondo is no more your concern then the Typhy issue was Gorf's... since I'm talking about BONDO's actions and not NIXON's.  

Grifter, how exactly would you have me show restraint about Nixon. ?Not post my findings based on evidence. ?Not post my suggested punishment. ?In essense not do my job as Battle League admin. ?The problem with you is you take my doing things differently than the other admins as wrong. ?Well, I've got news for you. ?I'm being an admin like an admin is supposed to be. ?Making public statements, showing what my suggested punishment is and why that punishment is needed. ?Ever considered that the other admins and their never posting always just discussing in PMs was not the proper way of doing things? ?You have been sending PMs to Sin and Ult discussing me and apparently all this other stuff. ?Well it would be nice if either of them would PM me ONCE to tell me what they think. ?How am I supposed to not pursue my own judgements when I'm not able to talk with Ult or Sin because they never respond to me or don't say as much as they apparently do to you.

Also Grift, I don't hate Nixon, I am just have seen that all the evidence points against him and that the necessary actions need to be made. ?I am also disgusted by his actions, not him personally. ?On the other hand Nixon does hate AK and took action against them (something I haven't done, take action) without evidence or clearence.

And I haven't deleted Nixon's defense. ?His post saying his actions were because of zero-tolerance are still here. ?His thread saying that he had had enough of AK and was booting them is still here. ?What isn't here is him saying the equivilent of "do whatever you fucking want I'll be back later Nixon" only with worse language and grammar. ?And you'll have to excuse Rapid for thinking you are supporting Nixon. ?Although you've not said anything, your tone certainly speaks for you. ?The fact that you are outraged at me shows that you dislike what I had to say which means since I'm saying he should go, you are saying that he should stay. ?Maybe you don't mean this, but it is what people will take from your posts.

Oh and Grifter, you weren't even around when I was helping to create the BL.  It was my idea, I played a major part in establishing the rules.  No I didn't do the site and no I didn't do the scripts, but I was essential to its startup.  Just because you don't see my name or visual proof of my work doesn't make it less important.  The sad part is I was doing all this before Sin, Ult or you were even playing on GR.

Actually, that's wrong.  That was a story that Rapid just made up.  The only PM I've sent to Ult or Sin on this topic is the one I directed to you and copied them on.  All my other observations came from what was posted (Sin posted that he thought Nixon was following the zero tolerance policy).  And on posts by Ace, Wrath and Ultimo on the previous AK topic ban.  Oh, and I'm sure we've talked on GR about it too now and then.  We seem to find each other, funny how you don't when you claim to spend so much time there.

How are you supposed to communicate with them... try sending them a PM... try talking to them in GR.  It doesn't matter how... but it's as much your responsibility as theirs, no?




That's my whole point.  You are not supposed to pursue your own judgements.. you are supposed to act as a group.  If someon violates a well established rule, then yeah, deal with it.  If something of great importance comes up... then the GROUP should deal with it.  I think booting an Admin is as important as it gets... no?



I didn't say you deleted Nixon's defense.  I said you deleting any of his posts under the circumstances was irresponsible.  They should be there for everyone to see what is going on.  If it was exactly what you say it was, we should have been able to see it too, right?  You yelled at Nixon for deleting some of Rapids posts, and he had the same answer you have.... be fair.



Only a small mind would inferr that when I've stated quite clearly that it is not so.  I'm outraged at the bias you are showing.  I'm outraged at the way you have been performing your duties.  I'm outraged at you for many reasons.  As for Nixon, I've said it before, let's hear it all and then I'll make up my mind.  I've heard your side loud and clear.  Much of it I see is your opinion.  I, for one, others as well, have said they want to hear from Nixon.... your response that it's clear as day and that you will not tolerate him being kept on is what I object to.  I don't like fascist dictators.  That seems to be what you've become (in my opinion... I've shown this evidence.. you have to agree with it right.... we should all boot you now right??)  Bah.  If you can't read what I say, then I can't help you, or respect your opinoins.  As for Rapid, I know he can't read, even when I agree with him he says I don't... so I don't value his opinion at all, since it's never informed.



Now that sounds like a Rapid "fact" if ever I heard one.  You have no idea when I was first playing on GR... and no, the current account I have is not my first... not even close (well, it's my second, but it was created quite a long time after the first).  So don't think you know it all, because while Nixon is all of 6 or so years younger then you... you are 10 years younger then me.  The thing I know for sure is never to talk out of my ass like that statement.  The battle leage does not belong to you Bondo.  If it was meant for only DAMN, the rest of us wouldn't be in it... and Mauti wouldn't have chosen people outside of DAMN to help if he didn't feel they were worthy.  So get off that high horse, we've heard it enough.

Well well well,

Rapid, I tried to leave Ak in peace, saying I would respect you as long as you showed the same for me. And here you are refering to me as weak-minded because I left. Oh boy...I see how quikly you turn on people, I defended your ass in here many a time, and that of the AK reputation. But I see the only one that matters is you. Do not try to go there with me Rapid. This is your one and only chance...do not even think of starting a hate war with me. Ive shown you and all of AK respect, show me the same...I deserve it.

Kilzo

Bondo, I think Grifter's problem with you is that when you think you are "posting your findings based on evidence" it sounds like you are trying to pass judgement. Calling for Nixon's head did get under my skin because you would have been doing the exact same thing he did - making major decisions without consulting other admins.

Next time soften your rhetoric or PM us first before going public with your findings. I always read PM's but I don't always have time to wade through the mounds of bullshit in these forums. (I would do the same thing...notice that I didn't go right after AK and suspend them on my own last time they irritated us)

Hate to break it to you Bondo, I was playing on GR before the *DAMN league came into existance. (God, what happened to the good old days of old skool R6?)

Yes Sin, you get it.  That is one of my major points.

Bondo is properly guiding you and you are trying to steer everyone away from the facts of Nixon's MisActions to help out Nixon. ?How bout you just get off Bondo, and say your piece on Nixon. ?You're way to harsh on Bondo over SPAM posts that he deleted...

Wake up and smell the coffee Bondo, I have been here all along, and from what I know, I have been an admin for at least 8 months longer than you. (Also, read my damn posts and you might have a clue on my positions.)

Well, I do realize you've made a few posts in this thread but the only threads where you stated your position were back when we were picking the punishment for Typhy and AK for the CF deal which we were able to come to agreement on, at least to some degree. ?But you hadn't posted on the Nixon thing yet. ?That is what I'm talking about when I say you are not here, it had been almost 3 days since Nixon's actions but nary a word from you about it until now. ?For an admin that seems a long time to remain out of the fray (which is where IMO the best evidence lies). ?

Oh and Grifter, looking back through the posts I see Nixon's posts, why can't you see that Nixon has been allowed to have his say and will be again if he chooses to.

Were you in an R6 clan, maybe I'm just drawing a blank because I undoubtedly would have seen you on back in the pre-RS days when I was greatly active.

I have enough of ?these posts fullfilled with hate. ? I will close this thread now I think everyone stated his opinion and so I'll bring this story to an end:

Bondo and Ak you probably dislike my decision but Nixon will stay as Battle League admin with one restriction he isn't allowed to post any AK clanbattles, he won't speak with AK and he won't answer to any questions from AK for one month until everyone calmed down.

Ak your scores were restored. You can continue posting clanbattles in the clanbattle drop box. Furthers about the clanbattle with CF: the clanbattle will be counted and won't have consequences for you as a clan because as I have heard ?Typhy's lie didn't impact the cb. For Typhy I am fine with your decision to kick him out of your clan. If he should come back he shouldn't participate on cbs until the end of the month. But well I can't observe that you know name change... it is up to you Ak but remind that such stories can cause your ban from the league.

Bondo your job is it now to post the AK cbs and when there are problems with results contact me and we will solve them together. However your main task will be to create clear rules for the Battle League to prevent such problems.We will work them out together in the next 10 days. I hope we can meet each other soon in Gameranger.Then we can also ?go through your BL rule ideas point by point.

For all other BL admins. Just continue your work as ususal. Thanks.


Have a nice day,

Mauti
P.S.: I'll rename this thread and open a new Problem Drop Box. This thread will be closed now if you want to answer me you can send me an email.