*DAMN R6 Forum

Hello everyone,

We are nearly complete with the revamping of the RvS rules and a major point has come up that I'd like to ask your input.

Currently each RvS cb is comprised of a best 3 out of 5 matches.  Each match is best 2 out of 3 rounds.

It has been thought that this creates a very long wait time with map loading and server changes.  We have thought that maybe a cb we be better comprised of the following"

RvS cb is comprised of a best 2 out of 3 matches.  Each match is best 4 out of 7 rounds.

This puts more of an emphasis on fewer maps but getting a rhythm down over 7 rounds similar to what we find when we play in public rooms, most notably Harveys.  Let us know what you think of this proposal.  We are not putting this to a public vote but do feel that community input is neccessary.

+Vick+

simply great idea, Vicky.  Changing maps is a big waste of time... this way, you spend less time choosing maps and more time playing.

The best thing about it is getting those repetitive battles going at certain points in the map.  Slight alterations of stategy over 7 rounds to edge out your opponent is what RvS is all abour and I think this change will really get at what the developers of the game were trying to do.

Ok, I'll stop being subjective now and let others voice their opinions.

 ;)

Vicky, will hicaps and gas not be allowed in cb's.... i would say that they shouldnt since most servers dont allow them anyway.

i guess , i dont care as long as we start cbing faster

It's also being looked at to ban Hi-CAPS.

Gas is still in as far as I know, but I haven't heard that much opposition to it. 

and make hbs patrt of cbs damnit

Keep HBS   and Gas but  BAN HI-CAPS - Spaming 101 bullets isnt skill

oh yea and HBs should be kept cause it isnt that great if u get close to other team they hear you and rush you with ur hbs out and your done for

This sounds great, getting rid of High caps would be a plus too.

A reply from Core, that is not a directly "yes" or "no",
but merely a few thoughts and questions to the proposed change of rules:

If a CB is to be decided on a " 2 out of 3 " basis, the current hosting-rules have to be rewritten too,
before anyone can give a complete "yes" or "no" to the full idea.
What would in this case be the new suggestion for future hosting-rules ?

When splithosting, it will most likely often be one map won on each host.
Will the final map then be played on the 2.nd host ?
When lowering the number of maps to be played, one could fear it would be of ( too ? )huge importance
to the clans involved, which clan would host as number one and two.

A comment on mapswitches in a CB:

"To us, the change of map has been the least of the problems in our CB`s.
A map is suggested, the host load the map, and a few test-rounds are being played.

Looking back at previous CB`s, the most timeconsuming process has been the quitting and rejoining,
because players lost their connection on KDX, had to go eating, or had to be subbed...
In short: The most timeconsuming process is all the stuff going on, that you cant really expect to make rules for. "

When a clan suggest a certain map, we may assume its being picked because they feel they get the best changes to win with that map. This can be due to a mix of a lot of reasons:

* With the given host and the given pings, this map will suit the clans playstyle best.
* Since the rules as of now still gives the clan the option for picking both map and team-color,
the chosen map might be the map that favor them a bit.
* The clan might have developed a certain strategy for exactly that map.

The above is nothing but common logic.

If you raise the number of times each map has to be played, you will most likely just make it an even more convincing win for the map-picking clan.

Should the Raven-community in general show a need for playing each map more times,
we wouldnt go against it We are comfy with the numbers already stated and mor rounds would just raise the time for the full cb, but no prob.

But plz dont see the number of times on each map and the number of maps needed for the full cb as one combined discussion. To us its two indivdual discussions, with each their own angles.

Finally, concerning playing-rythm and restrictions:

When playing for the fun of it, in open normal games, you get a certain "playing-rythm".
This rythm is far from the playing-rythm you see in CB s.

I have often on my own host had the tear-gas and smoke-nades restricted too, when hosting fun-games.
but when you play in a CB, you play much more teambased, and with much more caution to the options the game gives you.  Restricting one element will also influence on the choice of other elements.
(In a CB, the high-cap magazines might be the best answer for a joining-clan, to withstand the advantages from a low-pinged hosting clan. The option of HBS and stationary HBS might be a smart counter-measure towards a camping clan - the HB-pucks also have their advantages, and so on and so on).

The CB should be considered a CB on the terms given by the game.
Thats also some of the reason why "show-weapon" was originally accepted.

OK - let me stop fro now, so this doesnt get too long.

Best regards
| ! |  Flies

god flies are u author or something like that? u and ur monster texts....  but i totally agree with u! even if there are much details... :D

Banning high-caps? WTF. Were not n00bs im sure everyone thats in the DBL knows how gay spam is. BUT the high-caps serve a massive purpose other than a bit of extra ammo. Id hope as been as your setting the rules that I dont need to explain what that is. Do I?

w/e u make the rules i play the cbs! me and the rest of bbs dont really care about rules as long as they are for each person and each clan the same... at the end its a lot of bla bla for not very much if u ask me....

LETS CB

well btw its not that i want the season to start right now even if the rules are not finnished yet its just dont wast too much time with details they are important too but dont start 100 polls and 200 threads make it short and clear :D thats my opinion and im sure the adminis are doing a great job!, at this point i have to mention something that i recongnized.. the admin team is more or less all ghr players, hobby rvs players or more or less inactive players. is that cuz there are way more ghr players then rvs players or is it not so important if they are ghr or rvs players most important is they are good admins?

later

Actually, there are as many admins that play RvS than GhR, if not more.

You all seem content to play on Harv's server w/o hi-caps

No-one ever plays or really likes "Meat Packing Plant" and harvey doesnt run it. That doesnt mean you should ban it.

also: Niklot didnt say there were not enough RVS admins he pointed out that the RVS admins dont actually play RVS really (or at least havnt played for long or participated in any CB's).

I've particapted in cbs. Not for a few seasons, but under the same rules that hold now. Are you suggesting our admins are unworthy and should be unseated? I didn't see many people rushing to post when I posted the "You wanna be an admin" topic awhile back. I hate it when people bitch about something but then never try to change it.

most people don't feel comfortable just nominating themselves for an admin spot...There are tons of people willing to do it if they were asked.

true. at macaddict they've got a rule that if someone asks to be a mod on the forums they're automatically out of the running. perhaps we should just stop asking.

The more bureaucracy and red tape, the more problems that will arise.

True dat spetz

Guys, lets jus keep it simple.  Sin, the reason we dont play meat packing plant is because we dont like it.  The reason we dont play w/ high caps is because it makes the game a little unfair or cheesy.  Yeah, its fun to go in with an aug and shoot 101 shots at a guy and get 2 kills, but in a cb, its supposed to be skill.  The high caps decrease the amount of skill needed for a kill.  Thats why they shouldnt be allowed. 


(Besides they can create bullet lag)

To defend highcaps:

• Not everyone spams with them, even if you do spam you reduce chance of kill.
• 101 bullets is not far-fetched seeing as they do exist and are used when possible.
• Lag only happens if everyone is spraying machine guns at the same time.

Against highcaps:

• They take away the "reload" sound/aspect of the fight
• Spamming is a problem

Despite my uncreative reasons against high caps, I think they should be banned.

To Myst

If you mean "darks not lying, the aug does have 101 shots on High caps" ok, and yes

If you mean "people use other guns that naturally have 101 + bullets":  This is true, but uncommon.  (Support is what Im talkin about)

Actually barrel clips are available for almost ever gun. They are expensive I suppose, but they are used when wanted/needed.

Are you talking about real life myst... or what? 

First off I said that the banning of HI-CAPS was being "looked into", not that it was happening.  Please don't take it as already having been decided.

FYI, I was not the one who brought the idea of banning HI-CAPS to the table.  Obviously the role that Harvey's room plays in the RvS community these days has put a big slant on how the *DBL admins feel the revised rules should head.  So if you are questioning my experience please know that I am not the sole voice bringing any of this to you.

Now, to your point.  You mention that there is a "massive" purpose for High Capacity Magazines other than an extra bit of ammo during each reload.  Can you please explain to us what that purpose is?  I don't want to start having to guess and fill in the blanks to what the Core Clan feels is appropriate for the rule book, I want to know outright.

Yes. I was talking in reply to "cheesy". This game is supposed to be about realism.

to spike and all admins it was no offense as sinister said....
oh and civic i think this is the list of the admins:
z][t-Civic         => never seen playing rvs
BTs_GhostSniper=> plays sometimes
BFG                => long time no seen
Vickedson         => plays sometimes
BTs_static         => maybe the most active rvs admin
[:] Mr. T           => dunno if he even have the game
:MOD:Brutha     => last time i saw him playing was in the time of Eagle-One's server so atleast 6 month ago
[a] Red Tigah    => plays if the other [a] are playing
dr.Spike           => plays from time to time but... hes not even in Lees stats list...

u c civic not really much activity, but i didnt say it was bad or good i just realized it and asked why there are more ghr the rvs admins. it was no WTF WHY IS THERE NO RVS ADMIN. it was no offense or anything... well w/e

oh and to sinister meat packing is so fucking laggy if u go outside the building! and dont tell me we could say its not allowed to go outside.. its simply impossible to host this w/o lagg but the worst thing is: its so fucking easy to glich! u dont even have to do something special when i  1st saw this corner i already knew there were a glich for sure!

Niklot, there was a few of weeks this summer I was very active....three weeks ago. But mostly after midnight. However, your six months is a bit too much, since I played the game until long after last season ended. I disapeared just before my last exams, in the end of may.

High caps are there to also balance the weapons. The weight of a hi-cap brings most of the lightweight super jumpy, short range weapons to a usable level. They are designed to be used with a hi-cap. The entire system was designed around this. No the stats arnt just there to look pretty. Thats the massive reason. By doing away with hi-caps you are pretty much doing away with half the weapons usability.

Theyve always been allowed theres never been a problem, Ive never witnessed anyone obsesivly spamming in a CB with them.

Plus theres the whole camper debate where no hi-caps totally do away with rushing but thats not really a factor.

Vick it was in no way directed at you personally and my coment on the admins was just me pointing out what Niklot was trying to get across.

As for harveys server well I see the rules are fine yet its down to him how he runs it he didnt ask everyone what the rules should be and im sure no-ones gonna try to oppose them because basicly its pointless for a few casual games. That doesnt make it auto-approved by everyone that joins.

Nik, you also have to realize that its summer time. A good example is BFG. He  has been on vacation for about a month now. When he did come back (for his grandmothers funeral none the less) he was playing on Harvey's server. I haven't been playing because my cd drive has been broken for a few months, I can't install a clean version of RvS. I should be able to soon. Don't worry nik, there are many more RvS admins than we have ever had before, and once season xi, and the school year start, I think you'll be seeing most of them out playing. Even Mauti if we can convince him.

c'mon guys i didnt really want to fight about this... spike civic and u all, im sorry about my offense i just realized there are not much extremly active rvs admins.. and as u can c in lees stats list ther're not many admin listed up... well ok w/e lets stop this conversation about active yes or no, rvs admin yes or no... as i said im sure u guys gonna make good rules for the season! and i hope there will be some clans who'll need them cuz as i c the situation there are not many clans playing =(

You raise good points Sinister.

Like I said, this was only a thought by a few in the Admin section and was in no way meant to be perceived as a done-deal.  Statements like yours help greatly in clarifying the rules for our league.

Thank you.

And yes Nik, now that certain, "perstering elements" are no longer involved in the RvS ladder I'm sure you will be seeing alot more activity from the "GHR" clans, especially my own cO. who from what I've noticed almost now split our time between the two games equally....Especially Leen.

Highcaps do not increase the speed of the game. When did you last play on Lee's server? Th game quality has increased since highcaps were taken away.

No offense taken Nik, and none meant. I think you'll see a larger number of *DAMN admins on the server report soon.

Vickedson, i think the proposed rule change of making the cb's best 2 out of 3 matches, each match is best 4 out of 7 rounds is fantastic.  it should make for an overall speedier match.  good stuff

as for the high cap mag thing (and this isnt directed towards you Vickedson, just the community in general), im not so sure they should be banned.  its true that high cap mags actually make guns less stable, this is something that was designed into the game for realism.  so there is a sacrifice for using them.  one of them is that some guns dont have a scope, and if you ad a high cap mag you lose the scope.  its all pretty well designed in my opinion.  high cap mags are real.  what isnt real is heartbeat pucks, heartbeat sensors and jammers.   if you really want to ban anything thats "cheesy" it should be those. 

ive been playing in harvey's room lately, and to tell you the truth i only just realized that high caps were turned off.  and im still having just as much fun.  but i dont think that should really be decided on by DAMN.  If harvey wants it that way, then thats cool.  if you want high cap mags go somewhere else.  its about freedom, lets not take any of that way.  i dont understand how some people can say that certain preferences or style of play is "cheesy".  if you're not diggin the player who uses high cap mags or the way he plays....KILL HIM.  he can just as easily be killed with high cap mags on or off. 

lets not go too far with restrictions guys as far as the season is concerned.  its a video game.  its not social commentary.  and its not right to make people play a certain way just because you dont like thier high cap mags.  everyone has the right to host a public game anyway they want.  but i think restrcting high cap mags in cb's isnt needed.  and its not like the difference between a clan coming out on top or not in a cb was ever decided on by high cap mags.

Hi-Caps have not been played in casual games for as long as I can remember not to mention harveys host. n00bs join casual games and spam we all know this. Its the reason they-re not there. Yet aside from all the snobbery and egotistical bs i fail to see any reasonable reason for them to be banned. Like I said before, as yet theres not been any cb moments I can think of where a players spammed excessively and the lagg argument is also a week one when youl rarely (if ever) play a CB with more than 8-10 players. So I see no reason for them to be banned.


They actually add stability. I guess the science is the extra weight of the mag holds the gun steadier

Should the upcoming CB´s end up being " Best 2 out of 3",
I just cant see how the splithosting should be dealt with.
Splithosting has always been an absolute "must" when playing CBs across the Atlantic.

Given this - I only fear it will spoil any chances for US- Euro CBs.

Clans might end up asking for all 3 maps to be played on one host - and the US-clans would prolly end up demanding them to be done on f.ex. Harvey´s host - and the Euro´s ?? I dunno.

Should admins really put this through, they might already prepare two leagues at the same time.
A us-league and a Euro one.

My personal opinion is, that it would be a shame to do.
But introducing this " best 2 out of 3 " thing is in reality doing same.

omg

| ! |  Flies

what about we make a list, like in soccer or baseball or as in every sport every clan has to play an other twice,4,6 or w/e so always 1 cb is played in the clan x server and the next cb in clan y server. The list doesnt have to with time, date etc just to make sure every clan plays against all other clans and not that the dbl is decided by "who can win against the noob clans most". i think that would be a good solution oh and btw flies i know core is a euro only clan but bbs for exemple not we have euros and US guys so its not a good idea to make a euro and a US league well that 1 reason and there are tonnes of other too!

NiK

He was joking Nik....

Don't worry it seems the RvS Dev Team missed an internal note about the system modifications.

RvS game setup will be 2 matches with 7 rounds! All needs to be played: draws are possible and further the won rounds will be entered and not the won matches.

So everyone plays the same amount of rounds on each server, which makes everything as fair as possible.

Bye,

Mauti

 :D

Interesting.
Very interesting indeed.

I feel like I am having some kind of "dejavue" here.
Wasnt it the way we played Rogue Spear CB´s in the old days...more or less ?


Immediate emotions here:



 ::applause:: 
 ...for not making the cb-dealing a complete mess in the upcoming season.



 8) 
.....for thinking of how much internal clan-practise that will now take place, in order to make 1 or 2 maps into perfection. For those who didnt play Rogue Spear : You should see how clans could play certain maps
in those days. It was WrrrOOOoomm...bang...and all over in like 50 seconds or less. A clan based on lonely wolves was a dead clan.



 :)
...for probably making this decison having clans to realize that they are better off with CBs played in Athena Sword mode. AS-maps and AS-weapons balance was developed upon the feed-back from Raven Shield experience, and are really more fair towards each team and strategy in the game....If you ask me.
Time will show.


Like said, thats my instant response.
Will be interesting to see other comments too.

Best regards
| ! |  Flies

"Athena Sword" Whats that ?

So core is returning for season xi?

 ???


What on earth could make you assume that ?

| ! |  Flies

The way that you've been posting comments. I assume that anyone who is taking part in a battle league would want to have a say in what goes on. Anyone who quit that battle league might not give a damn about the rules.

Unless you were being sarcastic?

Flies, you better fuckin play.

 ;)

Wasn't the post when flies asked to be deleted, replied by an admin with "Good riddance to bad garbage." Nothing has changed between now and then besides him demanding icons, even from a season he quit. Why do we need more trouble?

shh Myst, I didn't say that, and even if I did, it got deleted.

The more competition the better.... RvS should see more action this season with the added participation of [:] and .cO.


I'm assuming that z][t and Dr. will also be playing.... but am I correct in saying that BBs, aP, we:, MP5, c|, (SiX), MoD, NmE and |!| won't be playing?

C'mon ~Po~, {E}, [a]!!!!  Who else will be battling on this ladder???

Nope.

Po is gonna try to compete,  I think mod is too, why isnt c| tho?

Nope, as in he is incorrect to assume that we will not be competing.

Thats good to know.