*DAMN R6 Forum

For repetitive breaches of *DAMN BL rules, and despite numerous attempts by the BL Admins and Chairman to rectify the situation, the clan -fA- and its members are hereby banned from the remainder of season VIII by agreement of the *DAMN BL Admin body and Chairman.

Furthermore the clan leader -fA-Stripes is hereby banned indefinitely from registering and running a clan on the *DAMN BL and acting as either Clan leader or War Admin with any clan on *DAMN.  

Regards
BFG.
*DAMN BL Chairman

Signed:
Aramarth
Civic
Alaric
Flies
Noto

like what may i ask?

At the most basic level, your clan has now exceeded the 3.0 warning point limit.

finally.... we didn't have a lot of problems with them (and my them i mean mostly stripes) but their behaviour was unacceptable and rude. I remember that once stripes tried to get more points than us by not wanting me to change the submitting order (we lost first cb and won second so we got more points than them (they were ahead of us)).
Anyways it was about time!
 8)

lol thor, it was an accident and we got civic 2 change it.


but dude what did we do for getting the last warning points? shouldn't it be officeal  ?

"officeal"? What exactly are you asking?

how did we get the last warning points? we reached 3.0 and we had 2.5 ? so, how did we get the last 0.5?

This is about as Official as it is going to get Stripes without getting a document signed by mauti through your front door.

I believe the admins are planning on posting a full report which lead to this decision. In the short term like aramarth said you have exceeded the clan warning points and as you agreed after the previous issue. It was made clear that any future violations of the *DAMN BL rules would result in a ban.

More details will be posted  by the Admins soon.

but i am asking i got banned because i " was rude " Lol ? this is the same as BTs you guys ban for stupid things.

i think the BL admins got wierd lol !=P

Read the "Warning Points" thread, Stripes.

lol. The fact that your rude about it is irrelevant.

Refer to the warning points thread of the BL forum please.

Once again i will say: You were fully aware of the situation before and accepted that -fa- must play season eight by the book without any BL Rule violations. This has not been done. Concequently 1.5 warning points have been awarded bringing -fa- to a total well over the maximum.

The penalty for this is a ban.

If you will not accept to play by the rules set out on this Leage then you will not be able to play on this league.

as i can see you found me as the problem, not the -fA- so why don't u just ban me?

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/wallbash.gif)omfg u guys really suck...i cant believe this, everyone  knows sar and doc arent cheating so why ban uh???(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/wallbash.gif)

Blah this sucks for all of us...
But anyway why did we get the first wp's (2.5)!
He said it was a bug...
You guys made the DMP's so it's your fault if he's right...
But you guys said it was a server side cheating isseu....ok!
it wasn't in a cb the bug or cheating isseu!
You guys just gave 'em because we played 1, 2 weeks ago a cb on his server?!

Uber

I cannot help it if you clan leader has not explained to you the situation before.

The clan leader of -fa- was fully aware that his clan had to abide fully to the *DAMN rules. He was fully aware that if he failed to do this the clan would be banned.

There was no suggestion that either Sar or Doc have at any time cheated.

There is a document that amazingly exists to answer all your questions. Most people here call it the *DAMN BL Rules. It has been suggested several times that reading it is a wise move.

Like i said before, the admins will post a full report on this decision at a later date.

Uber, do not even go there.

The accused bug would have occured in a file that was never MODIFIED or REPLACED by the mappacks. It is original to the install from your ghost recon cd. Unless... HE changed it. I don't care what you believe, but I am not a moron. I know exactly what I changed in the mappacks, and none of it had anything to do with the ammo count in the OICW nor could it.

in what time did uber said u were a moron ara?

By suggesting that the mappack created a "bug" that is our fault. I made 2.5, so that means it would be my fault. I did not touch the damn oicw.

lol flies - it's ok flies thx for your good and long post gg's whoever we cb'd great times.


oh and btw when we used sar he was allowed 2 cb from Toxic:: we got an agreement from em.


but whatever gg's all good luck in future. with your clans .

Stripes

No he wasn't allowed. It is an non optional rule whether you or toxic minded or not. A player Must be a clan member for at least a week before being allowed to cb for that clan.

Stripes, I'll try to make this clear.

*DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 28: Rules concerning TIME LIMIT and DEFAULT NUMBER OF GAMES can be modified if both clans agree to it.

There are also other rules that state they can be altered if clans reach an agreement to alter that particular rule.

*DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 2: Only members of the clans involved may participate in a CB. A player cannot be a member of two clans that are registered on the same ladder. Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB. During the finals, you can only CB with players that you have recruited during the main season. All players must register with the Battle League and must be added to the clan by their clan leader.

This rule, as with many others, are not able to be altered by a simple agreement between clans.  This is very clear as well.  It has never been "okay" to do this since the rule was specifically written to prevent "clan jumpers" from clan battling one day with one tag, then battling the next day with a different, and so on.  The week long ban for those new members has been in the rules for many, many seasons now and has always been enforced when found to be breached by a clan.

I know it seems like a harsh penalty to be banned for something so simple, but the circumstances surrounding your clan and its warning points were made clear at the beginning of the season.  At the least, you could have consulted an Admin before going to any CB with an ineligible player.

In regards to the remarks about cheating, these final warning points had nothing to do with cheating by -fA- sar of -fA- Doc.  These two players were ineligible from playing in CB's with the -fA- clan for a period of one week.  These players, however, did play in a CB (two for -fA- sar) during this week long period and with full knowledge of the clan's leader, which is responsible for the actions of their clan as stated in the *DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 23: The clan?s leader is responsible for the acts of the clan?s members. If a CB is played without the leaders consent it will still be counted. Also, on individual violations, it is the responsibility of the clan leader to punish his clan members for misdeeds. If sufficient punishment is not given the clan will be held responsible for the act.

In closing:

*DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 21: *DAMN reserves the right to remove or ban any clan or player.

.::|N| Noto

Didn't know that, I'll remember that in the future.

ok guys, we'll ok i got the msg - nothing 2 do just thx for your time and the games you all..


oh and joka not your fault my and fA's fault - i just though there was a rule about this but fuck it  gl all in future cya.


Stripes

After you said: No Sar, No CB... We don't need the points, you do.

Sounds more like a blackmail then an agreement.

  This is not a thread for spam. If there is nothing constructive to be added by any party the thread can be closed. - BFG

If you find a post that is missing, it was likely not deleted, but just moved to our spam section to keep this thread on topic - Alaric

but dude sent the thing is you agreed, but that doesn't count anymore i guess..

I don't understand why this rule is applied. If one clan agrees that a player can play, then why not? If a clan thinks that a member joined for just one clan battle to give the clan a win...then they can refuse to let him play. I think people are smart enough to know for themselves if someone is trying to pull somethign or not, without the help of admins. I just feel like this rule should be looked over, I think its rediculous (just my opinion), but carry on.

I don't see why they should be informed about it. They should have known that I just joined the clan, otherwise what difference does it make. If they thought I was in for a week, then they technically have no problem cbing with me. We did not inform then that I was only in the clan for 2 days because we figured, if they didn't ask, I guess they know. It's their duty to know what is going on...elsewise they dont have a problem with me.

Its the Clan leaders job to know the rules and not break them....

Sar Sorry but that makes no sense. You cannot expect every other clan leader to know how long another clan member has been in that clan. regarding toxic, they could not be expected to keep a tab on the massive turn over of -fa- members so they could tell who was elegible to play or not.

As a member of the BL You should know that you are not allowed to cb instantly when clan hopping - and your clan leader is also responsible for your actions.

Why should they know or care that you are clan hopping? they cannot keep a tab off every player - its simply inpossible.

Yes BFG, but I'm making a point that if the other clan does not bring it up, they technically agree. If they don't know too bad..why do we have to tell them? They asked for the cb, and they saw me, so I guess they were fine with me playing.

I applaud the efforts by the Admins to keep this on the up and up: the clarity and disclosure has really lent insight into what went on.

It's especially nice to hear how patient you guys where.

Thanks

Because you were a member of -fa- and your clan leader is responsible for your actions. They were not the clan with the player who was not elegible to play - you guys were. To use your logic i believe would be to claime that say that one clan is responsible if another clan breaks the rules?

But aside from this it wasn't a matter of asking if it was ok or not. It is made very clear in the rules that in order to play in a cb you must have been registered with the clan for a week or more. Whether the other clan knows or not, agree's or not is irrelevant as the rule is not open to options - its simply non negotionable for a very good reason - to stop exactly what you did; jump from one clan to another and cb under that clan straight away.

I personally don't agree with this rule.

BFG, that's all true, but it's not liek we were tryign to sneak anythign by them. We assumed they knew, maybe that's our fault...but lets say we told them I havent been in for a week...would they say "no...you cant play?" I doubt it. The only explenation I see for that is, no sar...is too good, or he is an asshole. Other then that there would have been no reason for them to say no.

Sure i expect they wouldn' thave minded much. however my point is it wasn't their choice. Clans do not have the option to agree to it - the rules clearly state that the player must have been a member for a week - it isn't one of the rules that can be 'agreed on' by the two clans.

Weird...

So according to flies, the toxic cb was ok because both clans agree, and BFG says you cant even agree about this between 2 clans.
Hmm...

Again...so Toxic cb was fine, both clans agreed...
But *nrg cb is not ok because *nrg didn't agree
But according to BFG they cant agree to this

You have me confused. where has someone said that he cb was fine with toxic becasue they agreed?

Well first of all flies said, he is no concerned about the toxic cb...it is the *nrg cb.

Also he was bringing all the attention the the *nrg cb...meanwhile the toxic cb was played first.

BoC is for RvS, fA was for ghr..Civic approved me in being in fA and BoC at the same time

On a side note, just to clear this up...this is the -fA- clan ban right? I can still play in BoC?

**awaits answer before going BALISTIC!!** ;)

I saw coming this long time ago, dunno how it didnt happen early, cause was a real pain in the arss to play vs Stripes.

He talks too much, he iwas rude with a lot of people and clans and i witness how he was very rude and unfair with his own clan members. Its Sad for our comunity to see ppl like him that doenst learn, and waste chances to rectify bad attitudes.

I respect very much DAMN adm's cause its a hard work, and u do very well.

Kudos for all administrators...

AND STRIPES , IF U SEE THIS..... do u remeber what u posted in the issue we had vs cO ?

"  lol plo nothing is up yet with Po in finals  or actually cO or * or MoD or fA, nothing is up yet ! oh, did i forget zt ? there should be zero tolerance about zt ! =  "

U SPEAK TOO MUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have always thought it was fishy ground to be in two different clans for the different games. This is a mild example of why. I would say this: as fA is a ghr clan, sar is banned from the ghr ladder for this season. The RvS is seperate in this case, though I still object very seriously to this dual clan thing.

It never counted in the first place.  A clan agreement as it pertains to this rule is null and void.  No where in the rules does it state that the rules can be negotiated, except Rule 28 in the General Game Rules.  Even then, that particular rule only pertains to time limits and the number of games.


It was never stated by your clan leader that you were an ineligible player, at least not that we know of, and even if there was an agreement, this rule cannot be negotiated as stated numerous times in this thread alone.


It is not the job of another clan to keep tabs on you and your enrollment in various clans throughout the season.  That is entirely up to you, your clan leader, and the Admins.


Which is laid out clearly in the *DAMN Battle League Rules.


Your assumptions make me sick.  Why would you ever assume that someone not knowing something is simply their denial of knowing it in the first place?  Sometimes, people just do not know.  Just because they didn't say anything doesn't mean they knew, and then were just keeping it to themselves.


You do not agree that there should be some rule regarding the players who jump from clan to clan?  What prevents such a player from simply being a "ringer" for points?  This rule prevents that situation from happening, and it has done so throughout this, and all other seasons.


Again, why would you assume that breaking the rules would be "okay"?  And there's no "maybe" about whose fault it is.  Stripes, as a clan leader, is responsible for knowing the rules.  This particular rule has been around longer than most of you have had GameRanger accounts.  There is simply no excuse for the ignorance that surrounds this situation.


You are correct.  The clan has been banned, but individual players such as yourself have not been banned.  You are still free to play with BoC, but from what I believe the Admins and myself will soon discuss will be you and your ex-clan mates future for this season as it pertains to membership in GhR clans.  You will most likely not be able to join another GhR this season.  This is not set in stone for the moment, but as I said, it will be discussed and resolved shortly.

For everyone else,

As for the discussions pertaining to clans agreeing and disagreeing in this matter, it is purely semantics at this point.  The rules are clearly laid out that a player must be a member of a clan for no less than none week before he or she is allowed to play in a CB.  No where does this rule incinuate that an agrement between the two clans would make this rule null and void.  As far as I know, the only rule that even comes close is the one that states a non-Mac player can participate if both clans agree.  That rule is platform specific and has nothing to do with the amount of time a player has been a member of a clan.

As far as I'm concerned, these discussions are over.  Anything past this will just be questions that already have answers, most of which are clearly laid out in the rules.  If anyone wishes to further discuss this matter, they should take it up with an Admin through PM's in this forum, or perhaps a live chat in GameRanger.

.::|N| Noto

just wondering, werent there a rule about u can play with the guy if the other clan agrees, we'll i mean - in season 6 i was in iN> and "Executor" weren't in fA for so long like 2-3 days and then we asked BTs_ to agree for Exe playing, and they did and we played the cb WITHOUT any problems.


did you change that rule!?



and yeah Po and said that  Nobody is in Finals now, and i'm talking truth and what is flames about that  ? and when did i insult you ? - (Only For Plo) don't respond if i didn't name your name please.

I dont understand why you think its so fishy. If you join a clan to play a certain game but that clan isnt mutli laddering, how would you ladder on other ladders without joining another clan? I run 2 separate clans on two separate ladders...am I a fishy person? There is, and always will be "fishy", "shady" people out there that will try to explote the system, but dont hold that above other players heads that are not that way and play according to the rules. Mauti, Elandrion and myself disscussed this long ago as to how this rule should be gone about. Its simple, the script doesnt allow the same name to be signed on 2 different clans so just sign up with a different name to be in a different clan on a different ladder.

correct me if im wrong but were not -fa- signed up on the RvS Ladder?

sure we were, but i talked 2 Civic and it was ok under another Account. so no problem there .


and please answer me question


Stripes.

another BL account... and only no problem as long as you don't play for two clans on one respectively the same gameladder.

...  Ok so -fa- is signed up to GhR and RvS. And you Recruit Sar who is Registered (or not) to -fa- for GhR and and BoC for RvS? Yet -fa- play both RvS and GhR. OK now im clear ty.

I had thought that everything was pretty clear given what has happend. For the last time though let me pull out a bit of the *DAMN BL rules. It was made very clear to -fa- that after previouse problems with the clan they had to prove that they could follow the BL rules to the letter and finnish the season without any faults. This did not happen. You have failed on both counts of this rule:

*DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 2: Only members of the clans involved may participate in a CB. A player cannot be a member of two clans that are registered on the same ladder. Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB.

Im sorry it had to end up like this. The last thing anyone wants to happen is to stop people from playing and enjoying themselves. But you were very clear as to exactly what the situation was, and  yet despite this failed to carry out your promise.

I'd like to begin by saying that I have no objection to the Admins enforcing rule violations when there is a clear, official record of those violations. However, I have yet to see an "official" account of the rule violations and the pushiment administered for each violation that lead to -fA- being banned. Don't tell tell me "Go ask Stripes." because I already have and now I want to hear it from you, the Admins. I'm not trying to stir up trouble by disputing violations. All I ask for is an official response.

BFG  - you don't even listen to me - like i said did you guys change the rule  the begin of season 8? the rule that clans can agree play even if  the guy / lady haven't been in the clan for 7 days. i remember this when i was in iN> and it was versus BTs_


no flaming just wondering. :-)

I personally think this thread has gone on long enough. The admin have been unbelievably patient with those who continue to question the ruling. How hard is it to follow the rules? I joined Po)| at the beginning of season 7. However, when asked if I was going to play in a CB the next day I replied no. Now why did I say no? Perhaps I read the rules. If new rules are added from season to season it is ultimately MY responsibilty to be aware of them. I do not expect any of the admin to hunt me down to tell me there have been changes to the rules. If I f**k up and get penalized then so be it. It's my own damn fault. You will not see me complain that I don't like the rules nor say that the other clan, and my clan leader, didn't care about what I was doing.  Ignorance is not an excuse.

Sorry BFG, I didnt realize that fa was signed up on the RvS ladder also. This would put Sar in violation of being in 2 clans on the same ladder...but in his defence, maybe he didnt know fa was on the RvS ladder. Sar made it perfectly clear to me that he wanted to play Ghost Recon too, which was perfectly fine by me. And the only way to do so was to join another clan on that ladder since BoC didnt play Ghr.

Maybe I should start another thread or this one should be split because I am in now way here defending -fa-. I for one think stripes is a conniving little shit prick and when I was an admin had to deal with the shizzal also.(its great not being a admin and calling him a shit prick with no problems, lol ;) )

Forrest, thank you for your well written question.  Here are your answers:


-fA- was banned for exceeding the warning point maximum of 3.0 points as stated and outlined clearly in the *DAMN Battle League Rules (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/clanladder/index.php?module=rules#15).

The 2nd Rule clearly states: Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB.  The -fA- clan found themselves in violation of this rule 3 times regarding two different players.  -fA- sar was in violation twice, whereas -fA- Doc was in violation only once.  Either way, there were still 3 clear violations in which -fA- was awarded 0.5 warning points for each violation, totaling 1.5 warning points.  Since -fA- had already accumulated 2.5 warning points from a previous violation at the beginning of the season, which you should clearly be aware of, this 2.5 plus the 1.5 now totals 4.0 warning points.  4.0 warning points is clearly above the maximum of 3.0.  Therefore, -fA- was banned from Season 8 of the *DAMN Battle League.  I'm not sure if we, the Admins, can be any clearer about this situation.  I can understand why members of -fA- would be upset, and it is truly an upsetting issue, but regardless of how you feel , your clan was in violation of a simple rule; 3 times.  Also, your clan leader was completely aware of -fA- stance when it came to warning points and knew that any further infractions of the rules would mean a ban for the season.

Furthermore, warning points were posted for all to read.  They have been posted here (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=5171) since November 23rd, 2003, which coincided with the start of Season 6.


Name: -fA-
--------------------------
Penalties:
15.05.2004; BL Ruling.
---------------------------
Total Warning Points: 2.5

?? -fA- Clan currently has 37 out of 53 (70%) GhR Team Clan Battles which have incomplete postings.

?? -fA- has played CB'd with 2 members that were still under the 1 week probation period set forth by the *DBL Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 2:
...Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB... ?

?? The two members in question:? -fA- sar (#114238) & -fA- Doc (#108560)

0.5 warning points for each infraction: A total of 1.5 warning points. -fa- is therefore banned from the remainder of season eight. full details can be found here (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=6461)

I'm not sure what else you want to know...


Stripes was informed of all the intricate details of the first issuing of warning points at the beginning of this season.  This was considered a matter between the Admins and the -fA- clan.  We felt that posting everything here would only lead to more accusations and flaming against, so we decided to have a little tact and keep it off of the forums.  So, in regards to the first 2.5 warning points, yes, you will have to discuss this with Stripes, or an Admin outside of these forums.  As for the additional 1.5 warning points awarded just recently, I think everything is more than clear thus far.  If you have any specific questions, I ask that you send me a Private Message.  You can do this by click on my name to the left, and then select the option to send a message to me, the user.

Thanks you all for your time.  Unless there are other reasons why this situation needs to be discussed more in depth, I would ask that members please refrain from posting anything that has already been discussed, questioned, and especially answered.

.::|N| Noto

Thanks noto i believe that is as clear as it can be :)

 Voodoo, no problem.  i just wanted to clarify where things stood. This was a violation of the rules but on this matter Sar will be able to continue to play for BoC in RvS but cannot join another GhR team for the remainder of the season. Sar this is a warning from the admins for future, please be sure that your wish's meet with the Bl rules and that if you are playing for different clans on different ladders there are no conflicts of interest - to make matters simple im sure one of the Admins or myself would be more than happy to go through things with you or anyone else in a similar situation in future.

As for this matter with -fa-  i think everything has been covered answered and  would now consider it now closed.

Regards

BFG