*DAMN R6 Forum

Well,  this isnt gonna make people happy but we (Aramarth, Wickedson, Nomad, Carbon, Shade, Macaddict, and myself) just tried what Acri's discussed in the last topic and we have concluded that he is absolutely correct.  This Dedust map should not be played.  Cause of the issue with the bad map making we have tested all of the other 1.5 maps and to our suprise we have found some serious glitches on almost all of them making them now unplayable.  The list includes:

DeDust (of course)
Prison (night)
Reservoir
Bunker Park

We havent tested out all of the 2.0 maps but I can say this much, the only one that we tested with any success is Chalet.  As far as the 1.5 maps they should all be taken off and re-evaluated cause of the glitches that we have found.  In my opinion, and I can speak for everyone in the game that these maps are NOT playable by any means of the word.  All of them have fatal glitches to where someone could easily cheat or glitch and have a perfect view of either a crucial spot of the game or of the whole map in itself.  Therefore I do believe that now the whole DAMN BL mappacks should be taken out for further evaluation because of the serious glitching issue.  If anyone would like to see SS's of the maps let me know and of course I will send them to ya.

My issue is how many people knew about these serious glitches beforehand?  Hmm, well anyway ckeck it for ureself


:MoD:Saberian

What's really funny about this is I never liked teh *DAMN BL MapPack, and I hope both versions 1.5 and 2.0 be taken down, and not released until they are perfect in everyway in which glitching is not present.

Blitz 8)

It's absolutely hilarious every time i think about it.


You could glitch at any wall of any map in rogue spear... and yet, no map was ever deemed unplayable because of cheating, because no one ever cheated.


Pity.

Well now just isnt' then snipe.. and GhR isn't RS, and kids will be kids ;) and of course who's to say they didn't cheat...?

what im slightly confused about is if people knew about these issues before now... Why didn't they say!

I knew from the start when the first version of the Damn maps came out, that there were lots of glitches. But I never thought they could be a threat as long as no one would use them during a cb. I know most of the glitches on those maps, and I think if I play against a clan who uses those glitches I could ask for a replay and see if its true what I thought. There for I didn't mention it, and most of the ppl who knew these glitches prolly thought the same way.

I find it a bit surprising a lot of you guys never knew about these glitches on de dust. When I'm hosting I try to avoid playing de dust, because I know some ppl use it to just piss you off on your own host. They think its kinda fun shootin ppl when they can't be seen and shot on.

And on bunker park I once fell trough a wall by accident, and suddenly I was inside the bunker. I'm happy I noticed it during a normal game, and not during a cb. I don't like being called a cheater or glitcher.

Come to think of it, I think the glitches were mentioned before, but no one responded to it a while back. For me the most crucial glitching maps shouldn't be played during a cb. But don't forget the normal Ghr maps also have some of these glitches...

If we all know the glitches then we don't do them.
One thing GhR has over RS is that if someone glitched in RS its more of a he said she said... With GhR if we know the glitches and avoid them we'll be ok... but if someone does glitch, then we can call for replays...

Some of the new maps (for those guys who dont play GhR) have a decent amount of glitches that the normal game doesnt have... I dont think we should eliminate them all just take a look at these glitches maybe post them somewhere... with ss so people have a clue as to what your talking about.

lets keep de dust... it will be easy 2 discover if someone glitches  on the maps.. just ask for replays... godammit... if u take De_Dust.. then u should take ALL Maps... (DMP's) since there is glitches in like everyone, it's just about time and we found em...


***Stripes : wants 2 keep De-Dust As well, i like the map - and it is one of the most played maps, with (embassy)

None of these maps should be deleted.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

Well, I am glad that you think that, but the simple fact is that people will use them.  the simple issue is that the rules for BL state that a clan that is caught glitching twice in a cb will be counted as a forfiet.  Well, what about that one time.  Basically it is stating that they are allowed to get away with something like that.  personally I dont think these maps should be allowed.  By allowing these maps you are basiclaly stating that it is ok to glitch once, which in my opinion is a load of shit.  So decide what you will but I wont be a part of using a mappack that has this many glitches already within the map.  Like I said we have found ovewr 10 glitches alone in Dedust.  So for that map and many others I do not feel that for CB gameplay they should be allowed.  

Again, we can change the rule about glitching but by letting people play maps that they are tempted to glitch on is basically stating that it's all right to glitch once during a cb, which again is shit.

as for Eight's statement, if we dont do them, who's to say the other clan wont pick that map.  And to have to agree not to use glitchy maps is kinda bullshit as well cause they shouldnt be there in the first place.  I would like to play a game with the least amount of possible cheats as possible.  This way it takes the possibilities of cheating out of the hands of the individual.  Especially the individual who happens to accidentally lose the cb replays that were requested.   Think about it, fo all fair intensive purposes we should only use maps that are FULLY tested for these things, which again these were not.  And if people already knew about this they should have let us all know instead of keeping it to themselves cause most of us dont like to ask for replays unless we thought they were cheating.  So who's to say these havent been used in cb's already played unbenownsted to the losing team, and they were jsut under the assumption that they played fair in the first place.  By putting these possible windows in the game is not only bullshit, but very un-professional.  So for those who agree that maps with serious glitches in it should be allowed in a cb league.  This will just bring some serious problems for the future of the BL.  


:MoD:Saberian

Dude, there are glitches like this on a BUNCH of the Ghost Recon maps, old and new alike.  I can show you glitches as bad or worse than the ones you are talking about on several of the old maps....namely Day Castle, Small River, and Red Square.  If you are going to ban a map just because there are glitches on it, then you might as well ban Ghost Recon all together from the ladder, because there are glitches throughout the game!

You boys are missing the point. There aren't nearly the same amount of issues on the other maps. We are not arbitrarily picking these maps, we played them all and found that those listed are error-laden enough that they shouldn't be valid to play at all.

This isn't a "we found this error and we want it gone" issue. It is litterally reflection of every-other-10-seconds someone else is shouting "holy shit" into netfone as they found yet another wall they can run right through. It was sick on dust especially... and I honestly think arguing for that map is the equivalent of defending the common man's right to stab somebody. It just isn't happening.

Ara

P.S. Dust isn't just a buggy map, it is the MOST buggy map known to anyone I know. Banning such a thing is a courtesy.

Look!  We didn't ask for these maps in the first place.  The *DAMN Battle League forced them down our throats without us being able to say a damn thing about it.  Well, that is fine....we learned to battle on these maps so that we could effectively play in CBs on them.  Now you guys want to take maps away that you made us learn against our will to begin with.

Well I say FUCK THAT!  I am sick and tired of the Battle League Running my life!  You say one day you have to play on these extra maps years after you learned the game on the maps that Ghost Recon came with, and now you say "oh just forget about these maps cause we shouldn't have put them in to begin with."

OH FUCKING WELL.  You can't have everything.  These maps are already here, we have already spent hours upon hours learning them.  LET THEM STAY.  I will be royally pissed if you delete maps that you made me learn against my will to begin with.

What a bunch of BS.

-GhostSniper Out.

lol ghost.....

Well i just did some testing on my own on Dust... I checked every possible place and didnt finds anymore glitches then say castle day.. or anyother regular GhR map for that matter.

Actually GS the first map pack was discussed with everyone. Everyone was able to post bugs and glitches about the maps. DBL 1 Thread (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=5165;start=0)

No, this is not what I'm talking about at all.  I'm not talking about discussing bugs and glitches and spawn points, etc.  I'm talking about the way that we had no choice in being required to use the Mappacks.  The Battle League told us it was a requirement to HAVE these Mappacks, whether we liked it or not.  That is what we had no say in.  And now some of these admins and other people want some of these maps deleted.  Well that is just a bunch of BS.

The MAP PACKS stay with all maps included!

-GhostSniper Out.

Thats right GS, this is all just to try and piss you off as much as possible. it has nothing to do with the rest of the community, its just to specificly piss of Ghost sniper and any similar BTs guys... come on now for gods sake.

By no means did all the admins know about the map packs etc to my knowledge.. Hell i didn't know a thing about the 2.0map pack until after it had been released... ask mauti, civic or revolt about that.

The map packs were and have been an effort to bring change and variety to the BL. thats a good thing. Everything has problems, things go wrong. its what we call "life".  It would be nice if people would just stop bitching and whining and just help sort the problem out.

Well, it seems that pissing off Ghost Sniper isnt a hard thing to do lol.  In either event that was not my intention.  If anyone would like to go into a game with me I can point out the numerious glitches.  You guys think that Ghost recon had some bad glitches with the standard maps?  Plz man, dont make me fucking laugh.  Tell ya what GS, we will go into a game tomorrow after I get off of work.  i will show you every fucking glitch in Dedust alone.  Then you find me a massive amount of glitches that is even close to the number from the original maps.  If you can do that then i will revoke my statement.  The simple fact is that you cant even come close man.  Plz, if you arent willing to see the examples we present then STFU and stop whining.  I am just making a statement about the playability of the maps.  Dont get pissed, although I guess it's better to be pissed off then pissed on =)   Take me up on my offer if you dont believe me GS.  Acri was so kind as to point these out, we just went the next step.  Unless you like the glitches.   So I suggest you either show up and look for ureself, or just plainly shut up plz.  Just because we dont agree with your way of thinking dosent mean you should get pissed.  

At first I thought it was a load of shit, just read under Acri's little post and you will see that I did not agree that the map should be taken out.  But I invited Acri to prove it to me which he did with just a few simple SS's.  He was absolutely right and so I started this post cause I had 6 other players go in with me to verify that there was an issue.  From 3 different clans.  When the issue was obviously present then we decided to check the rest of the maps.  We did and therefore agreed that because of these serious cheats these particular maps cannot be played for a Battle League.  Just take me up on my offer and stop getting upset.

this isnt a simple tree glitch, or a oops, I am in the corner of the wall glitch.  This is a omfg I am inbetween the wall glitch and can shoot anyone from any part of the map with my bullets going right thru any wall on the map glitch.  I doubt you will find one like that on a regular GR or DS map.  

As for Lee Harvey, I invite you as well to see the issues at hand.  You dont believe me, see for ureself.  Obviously you didnt look hard enought cause they are as plain as day as you will be forced to open ure eyes and see.

And I am not an admin GS, so dont think of this as some type of ploy. As you can see I play in this same BL as you, or as you did.  In either event check it with me and a few others and see for ureself.

:MoD:Saberian

Ummm... Bfg... chill out homey

GS has a HUGE point...

No one asked for them to be thrown at us mid season... anytime these new maps were THROWN at us.... we had to deal with it... even with constant posts about how we should test the shit out of the maps before we play them... instead i got (some) admins jumping down my throat saying "we did this to piss you off" comment... Now you guys are on the other side of the fence and were now asking for them to stay and we get the same god damn BULLSHIT.

I vote for the maps to stay.. I vote for DBL Map Pack version 2 to also stay...

Maybe next time... before forcing people to play 2 seasons on them and forcing them to change tactics mid season (when all the rules seem to be changed and modified)

How about some proper testing in the future?

From searching on the INet... NO OTHER LEAGUE changes so many rules MID SEASON....

Instead of this disscussion being here about changing shit that already happened how about a thread talking about the NEW RULES that should be introduced before the new season starts?

Sabe post the SS you have.... hey post the replays also...

In any case if any clan caught doing these and other glitches will be caught on the replays so i dont see what the problem is.....

Im confused, but i just get this inpression from some people that its a case of

"Oh well we didn't want the map packs in the first place, now you've found problems with it, haha live with it"

Of course nobody (i don't think) wants to scrap all the new maps - they are fun to play on for heavens sake... it would be a whole lot easier if we could just try and remove the problem... we have so many modders and moddlers can someone not help out in removing the glitch possitions?

Not all the admins enjoy sitting down every evening to watch six or seven replays of glitches... it would be much nicer to resolve any problems and issues with the maps and the glitching issues before they clans even play on them

Good point BFG,

It blows me away that people bitch about the maps.  But when there is an inherent issue found with them then people just turn their opinion and say deal with it.  As for taking out the maps I dont like the idea of taking them out personally because I do like dedust from when i used the map in Rogue Spear and many of the other maps including prison and whatnot were also fun as well.  But the problem is that the map because of the way it was made by the PC guy that originally made it did not make the map correctly and did not do things to the specs that the map should have been written.  This unfortunatly makes the point of taking out the map over fixing it, which as far as I can tell cant really be fixed, but most likely would have to be rewritten.  Now if we were to leave the maps into the CB ladder then this would create an issue to where more people would worry about the glitch and more issues wouldhave to be dealt with by admins.  As far as I know you guys dont want that, so for you to say leave the maps in, you are basically saying please screw over the players of the league, so we have to have more issues that need to be dealt with and slow down the league progress.  Our objective as players is to make this a better ladder, so we dont have to deal with as many issues during the season.  Granted I did not approve of Mauti's idea of introducing mappakcs in the middle of a season.  But now is not the time to bitch about that by rebutting the idea of taking them out by saying that since they put them in that we should deal with them.  The more important thing is to make sure that these issues are dealt with now, so for next season it is that many less issues that we as a CB league have to deal with.  Again, If you would like to see some glitches come joinn me in a game and take a look for ureself.  Nothing like seeing it first hand.  So think before you speak, since it seems that the speaking is all based off of revenge over anything else.


:MoD:Saberian

Look, I have seen nearly every glitch on every map in the game.  Don't tell me what I know and don't know.  I went around with people on just about every glitch you can find just so I know where they are so that I can avoid being killed by people who are using those glitches.  I actually made strategy out of knowing where people using those glitches can and can't hit.  And don't give me any crap about there not being glitches this bad in the original maps, because that is just plain BS.  I can show you a glitch on Day Castle where you can do the EXACT SAME THING....actually go into a wall and kill anybody on the map from there.  There is another glitch like that one on the Small River map.  Point is, these glitches are everywhere and there just isn't anything you can do about them except know where they are, and challenge people that you think are using them.

Enough!  The maps stay!

-GhostSniper Out.

I see what the problem is here. It is very similar to the issue which got BTs banned. Guys, releasing the packs without testing was not my fault, and I think it was a mistake. Now, we try to fix this, and you tell us that THIS is a mistake. It is a perfect parallel in fact. That which has been done may have been wrong and regrettable, but why is that a reason to stop any future advances? Since when, oh great and all-knowing supporters of these flawed maps, has PROGRESS been a MISTAKE? If we start ignoring every problem we see because "it was that way to begin with even over your protests" NOTHING will EVER get better! Can't you see that?

If you like the map, fine. Your call. On this league, however, I and others are trying to make an effort to improve things. If improvement isn't what you want, then don't ever let me hear you complaining, you hypocritical little punks.

Ara

Nobody did... But if you allready konw about everything thats great. Its nice to know that your capable of knowing everything, If anyone could please show me the art of allowing me to know what i don't know id much appreciate it... Thing is i don't know about things i have no knowledge of untill someone gives me that knowlege.

... thats great!!. oh but hold on... i though you just said you could

 ... so can u go in and kill everyone or go in and kill everyone exept if know where to avoid it?

says who? Why shouldn't we try? who give you the fucking say on this?


Oh no. sorry guys the discussion is over. its obviously not open for discussion and to all those that put time aside to help try and inprove the BL can piss off.... Ghostsniper has decided so for the next season which he won't be allowed to play we must totally ignore this and just piss about with replays and glitch issues...

... And right now from someone who is banned from the BL for the next season it seems a little rash to be throwing your 'decisions' about.

Exactly.  I am banned from playing on the Ghost Recon Team Ladders, but NOT the Ghost Recon FFA Ladder.  Am I correct in that or not?  Please tell me oh great all powerful admin.

Sorry, just havn't had any really warm fuzzy feelings about certain admins lately.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

P.S.  I'm gonna fucking OWN you guys in the FFA ladder next season....see you on the battlefield.

Wow... You guys do have lives, correct?  "There be some strange commotion 'o' bitchin' in these here parts!"


No one ever cheated... lol...  Yeah, okay.  Never use words like 'never', 'ever', or 'always' unless you are sure it will not be proved incorrect.  To say that no one ever cheated in RS is completely false.


Actually, I posted in the Admin section awhile ago about a few different maps in the map packs and their vulnerability to be taken advantage of by cheaters.  Needless to say it did not raise enough eyebrows because every map in GhR (old and new) has an inordinate amount of glitches, i.e. programming errors.


Ah, someone who remembers the public discussions as well.  Sentinel also points out the fact that the original maps are equally as buggy.


Sab, people still use the glitches in the old maps, which is why we still hear about them.  Also, the current warning point system was developed by the Admins of this league in regards to being 'allowed' to glitch once without harsh consequence, other than warning points.  Perhaps it would be easier to simply make the punishment more severe for those who partake in cheating, while the rest of us have fun playing a variety of maps that the original game did not include.  Let's make sure we're not throwing out the proverbial baby and its wretched bath water.


Very good point here.  Does anyone want to take a guess as to how many glitches there are in the following maps?

?   Embassy
?   Airbase
?   Castle Day (& Night)
?   Red Square
?   Night Battle
?   Small River
?   And many more...

Seriously, the maps packs were created to help this league and the GhR ladders to thrive.  By removing the new maps we're taking a serious step backwards.


Perhaps those who tested should present a list of all glitches on all maps for GhR.  When that is presented to the public, then it will be obvious.  Until then, most will find it difficult to listen to reason when they have been provided absolutely no proof other than NetFone conversations that they were not even a part of.  Please post all glitches for every single map for GhR.  There will be no other way to please the public until this is done.

My question is this:  Since the introduction of the new map packs, how many accusations of glitching or cheating in a CB have actually surfaced concerning these new maps?  I beg the Admins of the previous two seasons to introduce a number of times the new maps were involved in such instances.  It's probably safe to say that there was more bitching about glitching in Airbase in Season 5 than all of the new maps combined over the past two seasons.  As it stands right now, the current witch hunt we have found ourselves in is only raising blood pressure, not solutions.  And no, taking the maps out completely really isn't a solution.  We wouldn't want to stifle the already diminishing GhR ladders anymore than they have to be.

The worries of the few are outnumbered by the desires of the many.  Do not forget that.

.::|N| Noto

In my opinion, Dust is not a part of Ghost Recon.

And something that differs Dust from other maps:

THESE GLITCHES ARE USED FREQUENTLY!! I am NOT kidding!

I host one of the most popular game rooms and it is being used VERY often!

It HAS been used against us in CBs!

Sure, Dust can stay, but I think everyone should be aware so:

Today (Saturday) at 8 PM GMT I will demonstrate the glitches for all that are curious. The password for the room will be "forge"

It's better now that we know these glitches exist.  I for one, had no idea that these existed and just wonder how many times they were used against me.

We know ALL the maps contain some sort of glitch, but the glitches in De_Dust are of epic proportions.  You can literally take out someone on 75% of the map by standing inside a wall where you can't be hit.

As far as it being removed, well-- now that everyone knows where the glitches are who in their right mind would use it against other clans in battle?  It only takes a replay to show whether it was used or not.

If you are dead set against not using the map pack, then when you begin a CB get the opposing clan to agree not to use them, or agree to the maps you will use.  That might be the only logical solution until these maps are fixed, if ever.

I guess it comes back to what is seemingly lacking these days on the BL-- sportsmanship.  Clans or players that are willing to win at any cost will use any means to win, including using glitches or cheating in some similar form.

Those clan that are just in it for a fair and hard fought game will know the glitches exist and choose not to use them.  Winning isn't everything-- not on the BL.  Well, at least not for * clan.

Weakspot, I can agree with that.  Although because the issue with the glitches is soo bad on these specific maps that I cant see how it could ever be used reliably.  the problem is that it might not be used for killing the enemy but used to find out where they are.  True Dedust can be covered by the sensor but to physically see the person is quite another matter.  The map only tells you so much of where they are.  It dosent tell you what they are doing or what they have placed on the floor.  All someone has to do is use this glitch to just peer into the wall and voila.  I perfect see far mod to be used againt the enemy.  That is my main issue with it.  There are many things it should be used for but the idea is to not to have to worry about that.  Plus why would you want the map in anyway if no one actually plays it.  Let's just take out the glitchy maps.  Maps like this shouldnt have to be worried about in a game by any team.  The should be able to rest assured that the maps that they are getting into are fair for both sides.  And when one team plays fair and the other does not, it destroys the value of a league that is all based mainly on rules trying to make it impartial and fair.

:MoD:Saberian

My point is...

When we bring this issue up we get told to deal with it....
How come all of a sudden this is a problem? Because we didn't bring it up?  But hey when we say something is wrong... its "bunch of whiners"...

I for one have lost a bunch of games due to some fuckt up new map choices.... I dealt with it... anytime someone shot us and we didn't know where it came from we then ask for a replay... and if it was a glitch or we thought it was.. we can then bring it up to the admins...

I say lets all know the glitches now that we played with em when forced to play with them when it was most important.... Now that were in between seasons... lets keep the # of maps... AND lets get to know the problem... if it was RvS then i would say "hey remove the maps..."
Only for the simple fact that rvs does not have a replay function....

So... we keep the maps... we then keep the enemy guessing... and we make sure we know the problem and learn how to not get into those situations where replays will be called... if called... then the admins themselves can take a look an decide if maybe they should add this to a glitch list... or decide it was a clean kill...

as for me posting on this issue even though i am banned i have had a bit of experience with cbs... and maybe i thought i could shed some light into how we were told to "deal with it" and how we "dealt with it"...

I just think that all these maps are alot to learn so some clans will favor some more then others.... keeping each clans game... up to par..

Eight, come off it. Do you want to know why this was handled in the way that it was? The number one clan came off its high horse and spoke with the number two clan, face to face, and discussed the issue. No one flamed, posted using capital letters, or was misunderstood. The conversation took the form of "hey check out this crap!"

If you really believe that your clan's discussion of the same issue would have met with more criticism than we have recieved (which is a good deal), then maybe it is time to consider attitude and tone of voice.

A guy can recover from calling his friend a moron with minimal tact. The same statement, if coming from a rival, causes hard feelings. Maybe it is time for some in our community to think about whether they present themselves as friends or winning-supercedes-all competitors. Each has its strong points, but they really do not overlap.

Ara

LOL....SINCE WHEN IS POSTING IN CAPITAL LETTERS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE???

I am sad to inform you that the famous Zero Trotting-horse has died from an overdose. He was tripping on ego with me in an open room and things got out of hand... On the other, it was the best darn ego trip ever.

                 - Narcissistically yours, Acri

Edit: Typo corrected.

What about the grammatical errors?  ;)

.::|N| Noto

HEY ARMARTH!1!!!1! OMG WTF LOL HOW R U DONG THIS EVENNG IN DA VIEDO GME WORLD
?!???!?!! WTF  :D

(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_lol.gif)rofl noto!

One problem I immediately see is if there are so many possible glitches on Dust, for example, it would be almost impossible for a clan to make a reasonable assessment of whether or not glitching was going on during the 30 seconds after a game, which is when accusations of glitching are supposed to be discussed and replays asked for on the previous game. Do we just make an exception for Dust and require hosts to save ALL games playe don that map for later review by both sides?

I personally like the variety all the new maps provide, but if I have to wonder everytime I play the map now if the person who killed me was glitching because I didnt see him before I died, I'm not sure it's worth it.

hello i just wanted 2 say, keep ALL MAPS in the DMP , and like gambit said, get replays.. why make a map for the bl and then ban it ?

In my eyes there is np playing these (this) - we could just take replays of em.



fA][Stripes

I'm just curious, even after several posts explaining why it isn't just why must people keep typing that. A poor decision (lack of testing in this case) in the past cannot be used as a reason to halt proper solutions. Thats just stupid. Hasn't anyone around here ever heard that two wrongs do not make a right?

Ara

Yes, two wrongs DO make a right!  lol

Now, as for the map....I say leave it!  People know there are glitches, and should now know where they are.  So if you think someone has glitched, just ask for a replay.  No need to ban any map.

Now MAKE IT SO!

-GhostSniper Out.

What discovery?? I haven't seen anything at all, you guy must have forgotten to give me the memo.. .

I never had any problems with de_dust, hard to belive that what ever the dicovery might be, it's worth banning the whole map..

I was wondering if a list could be provided before the maps get yanked?

.::|N| Noto

A list of glitches of course...

Sure, why not. May as well post a replay file demonstrating all the glitches. Then everyone can abuse them in public games, but at least no one will have a leg to stand on in this thread.

YOU don't have a leg to stand on in this thread.  Please Leave.

Thank-you.

-GhostSniper Out.

Thats almost hilarious GS. Let me give you a hint as to why. I do not bother to type anything on this forum unless I am pretty darn sure about what I am talking about. These glitches have the potential to destroy gameplay. You cannot dispute this with any reasoning to the contrary, but for some unexplained reason, you would like the map to stick around so that people have the option to glitch. Where I come from, giving people the choice to do wrong when it can be prevented is called liberal. I thought you were strongly conservative? Why don't you do everyone the favor of leaving yourself, since the most productive thing you have said in this ENTIRE thread is no better than "I SAID SO JUST DO IT."

What's wrong with I SAID SO JUST DO IT!?

I kinda like the way that sounds...so authoritative :)

But anywho....

There is a glitch as bad as the ones you are talking about on the Day Castle Map and the Small River Map.  Just as bad.  You can go right into a wall and shoot anyone on the map from there.  So if you are going to ban de_dust, you better get ready to ban Day Castle and Small River right along with it.  By the way, these are just two examples, there are several others as well.

Now, are you prepared to start banning every map with a major glitch on it???

Dust is not a single major glitch, but several. Not only that, it is an add-on map. While I do not see the originals changing, the stuff that we did change is our responsibility to test and fix. If it was up to me, yes. Castle would be gone. However, it is a part of the game, and that is something Dust can never claim.

Okay, here is my FINAL thought on this matter (well, maybe...lol...we'll see....):

You can ban de_dust.....but only if you go ahead and remove both map packs from the ladder.  So no more Mappack 1.5 or Mappack 2.0.  We will just start over with only the original Ghost Recon Maps.  That is the ONLY way I would agree to getting rid of de_dust.  Hell, I don't glitch on any map, have never been accused of cheating IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, and don't plan on starting.  But I really do like playing on these new maps, especially de_dust....it is one of my favorites for faced-pased fun.

So what will it be?  You either ban ALL of the new maps, or just shut the fuck up about de_dust.

Have a nice day. :)

-GhostSniper Out.

Ah, we return to you being king. Thankfully for the world, you dont get to make the call. ;)

DAMN!  I hate it when the Universe doesn't revolve around me!  bah!

Shame this is off-topic, but you remind me of my sister GS.

You try hanging around with my 4-year-old daughter and see how your thinking changes!

To be honest GS I can agree with ure conclusion there.  If I had it my way i would ban both 1.5 and 2.0 maps.  I was only trying to resolve the situation with those who wanted the added maps in to only ban the ones that were a serious glitching issue, but I do agree that they should all be banned.  It's not that I dont like the maps.  Dedust goes back a long way to my RS days and I have always had an attachment to that map, but I cant let my personal likes and dislikes get into the way when it comes to deciding weather a map is fair or not, because the whole idea of a fair decision is based off of being non-biased.  So I do persoanally agree to having all of the 1.5 and 2.0 maps banned.  Also to be straight about this you dont see any other ladders adding mappacks into the game.  We didnt do it for RS even though we could have, we didnt do it for RvS, even though I am sure they will be tempted to.  So I just dont think that we should for GR.  It is just adding too many variables to the already unstable game issue that is presently aparrent to all of us.  And the more variables there are the more issues we will have.  So if it were up to me then I would say take them all out.  But, of course it isnt.  And that is fine so I must deal with what is reasonable for the other clans to deal with as well.  That is why I proposed that we take out many of the maps.  Either that or modify them so that they cannot be used for certain gameplay's.  But at heart I do agree with what you say there GS about taking them all out.  

But as for taking certain maps out, well, ir should be done.  Either take them out of the mappacks for DAMN BL or just take them out all together.  Allowing them to be used in a cb-style game is futile if there is just too many bugs within the maps and the gameplay to make them fair.  Of course not every map will be perfectly fair for both sides, but at least give it a point of making it possbile to win off of skill, not off of who can get away with more in the CB.  By letting these maps play as they are, it is allowing that to happen.  And as admins for this game, you should all be concerned with how this is going to affect how you deal with these situations.  I have stated how I felt about this, but it is left up to the admins to decide the fate of how these maps are going to be played out in the League.

:MoD:Saberian

The hippie ??????????????????????  Well... I don't know about GS's sexual preference, but I've got this feeling he's no hippie.

.::|N| Noto

;)

Noto! Bug off my baby sister!

How about we lock this thread?

Last time i checked we had good admins who were capable of making decissions like this on their own.. .  ;)