*DAMN R6 Forum

Heres some suggestions...

Rounds per match: 7
Time per round: 10
Time between rounds: --
Bomb timer: dosent matter if the game mode isnt bomb
Number of players: the amount of players in the cb,  :D
Friendly fire: on
Teammate killer penalty: off
Allow radar: on
Allow teammate names: on
Force first person weapon: off, this regulates if the gun in the lower part of screen the one your holding has to show or not, if you like to play without it dont see why not.
Auto balance teams: off

Death camera on first person only

Game mode on team survival, although the bomb mode would be kind of a "warzone" for Raven Shield, maybe thats too early to settle. Anyway, lets try to have this all figured out when season 7 starts.

Thoughts?

Joka

I know that about 95% of the people here will want "First Person Spectate Only" mode.

However, let's take a look at it from a different perspective:

Back at Rogue Spear, it was impossible to force first person spectate view - you could force first person in the game, but not when spectating. There were never any problems with this. Admittably, far less people used voice chat apps ( NF, RW, etc. ). However, even with voice chat, the amount of time that you'll be able to take advantage of it will be very slim. I mean, how often are you actually able to scream "he's behind you!" and have your teamate blow him away? Very rarely.

Also, it's much, much more enjoyable to watch through third person mode. Aren't CBs about having fun?

Over the last 72 hours, Alaric and myself have probably played a good 25 hours of RvS together - all the time on Netfone, of course. I honestly don't think I can remember a time in those 25 hours where 3rd person spectating saved one of us; that's out of like 1,000 kills, and several hundered deaths each.

Now, past that.

A little advice for anyone who's crashing while quitting RvS: Just type "quit" into the console. That should be problem free.

My opinion, in the interest of starting season 7 ASAP after season 6, we should limit it to one RvS ladder - that being Team Survival, of course.

Like with GHR, we can add more ladders later, and while I look forward to doing some "bomb" CBs, it can wait until season 8.

Joka, you have to understand this - with the way that the maps are setup, your suggestion is to play 7 games on each map. This would be kinda fucked up, wouldn't you agree? All that a clan would have to do is perfect a single map. This would have some distinct problems, namely the fact that some maps have uneven inserts.

Perhaps something like this:

CB = 12 games:

2 games per map.

Non hosting clan tells the hosting clan their 3 map choices. The host then sets up the server, 2 games per round ( I haven't checked - can you do 2 per round or does it have to be an uneven amount? )

The same is done on the other server.

With RvS' terrible server menu, the non hosting clan would have to tell the host their maps in advanced, of course.

Time per round: Infident. You've gotta have the balls to come out and fight.

Infident time between rounds - it'll start when everyone clicks ready.

More, and clarifications later.

Typhy, I'd agree with you except I'd restrict 3rd person to normal, not free, so you can't watch behind him.

Also, I don't know about unlimited time, I've already seen so much camping it's not even funny.  10 games in a row on CSL and the same three guys hid in their starting house behind boxes.

Changing maps isn't too much of a big deal.  You can change them at any time, even if it does take a bit of time.  I like the GhR way of the loser always picking the next map though.

I dare say that people having the crashing problem should reinstall from the CD's, since I've not had a single crash playing or hosting yet.

I also agree that just team survival for the first season of it.  Maybe more after we learn more about the game (and see if there are any good mods available).

I agree with you about third person, Bucc.

I too hate the little gay dumbfucks who camp. However, wouldn't putting a time limit on just encourage it? In a 3v3, you lose 2 of your guys, you just find a camping spot where no one will find you. Time runs out, the game's a tie. Or would we be using the rules where the team with the most kills after, oh, say 5 minutes, wins? That could cause problems, first the fact that Raven Shield scores such games as ties. Second, you still have the camping problem - a team gets one kill, then they all fall back and camp.

Perhaps I'm underestimating just how long some people are willing to camp for, but it seems to me that the best way is to remove the time limit so there is no way out of a game aside from dying, or killing your oponent.

I never played a CB at GHR, so I haven't seen lots of gay campers, perhaps there are actually people out there who wouldn't mind sitting in a room with a gun pointed at a wall for 15 minutes?

edited to prevent flaming... Harvey
 

Crypt, your machine specs are better than half of the guys that were kicking your ass in that game, so don't cry "you guys all have G5's", because we don't.

Typhy, I don't see why it would be any different than RS rules.  There are time limit there, or did I read it wrong?  What stopped people from camping in RS?

To put no time limit just means that he who gets sick of camping first will usually die if you have a couple campers left.  So yeah, I like the idea of the team with the most kills winning (even if RvS says tie, they should be able to figure it out).

The no time limit idea is a bad one, what if its a huge map where the both guys that are left are wounded and they slowly walk around looking for each other. Basically it could take forever even with the best intentions.

Isnt the AA ladder played with just 2 maps per cb? That could be a good idea here since its really tricky to change and it would take forever if you wanna have a new map each round.

The 3rd person camera, even if you didnt happen to have any use for it during a long time, dosent mean that it should be accepted. Those that are dead, really are dead they cant give an extra edge.

Running at a 'smooth' (very sarcastic) 5-10 fps is really your idea of a better machine? I beg to differ.

Please don't post anymore on that.

Bucc, in the 100+ RS CBs that I played, there was never a time limit. However, I'd support the idea of the team with the most kills winning.

Joka, I disagree about third person. Regardless of wether it can be used to give you an advantage or not is outside the question. It's much more enjoyable to spectate through it. Isn't fun what CBs are about?

Crypt, Bucc is running a Dual 867 G4, 1.5GB PC133 RAM, 32MB NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX. You're running a iMac 800 Mhz 17" Flatscreen LCD, 768 MB RAM, GeForce MX 4 32 MB VRAM.

Same video card. RAM doesn't come into play, sense with my 1GB I never page out in RvS, and I seriously doubt that you do. Dual processors offer almost no improvement in RvS, so the difference is about 67Mhz.

More importantly, quit your fucking whinning. If your machine can't run the game for shit, then don't play the game. It's that simple; but don't give me this "oh, I have to camp because my framerates suck" bullshit.

Added in:


That's from Crypt in the RvS thread in the General Gossip. "damn well", huh?

I thought Bucc had a 933MHz.  That GeForce4 MX 32MB is probably the biggest factor holding you back.

Typhy, 25 hours of play in 72 hours of owning the game?

Yeah, Alaric and I played like 12 hours in one day, including 6 straight. It was raining, there was nothing better to do.

Viper, Bucc switched his 933 to a server, he's now using a Dual 867.

There was no rule against camping and nothing stoppped people. The only thing that held everyone back was respect. If you won a cb by camping, then it was just as good as lossing in many poeple's eyes. RS was about respect.

Oh, sry about that Typhy, I said it in there to show people with similar computers that it was a great game and should get it, I guess i thought those teams were unfair, and I don't see how you can hold me to something that I did one time forever, just quit. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT ;)

LOL... Come on Ultimo.  How many people were actually playing RS CB's?  Not nearly as much as GhR nowadays.  The reason why people didn't camp in RS was because there weren't that many of you out there in the first place.  Camping is part of the game, and it is a big part in many games.  Many clans out there use camping as a strategy to piss off their opponents, and guess what, it works at times.  So to say camping was held back in RS by the respect for one another, then you obviously didn't read the 10,000+ posts that came before this.  Direct flaming, trash talking, and other nonsense wasn't held back by this "respect" you speak off.  Why would camping, in a game where bragging rights are on the line, be reduced by the respect, or lack of, shown on these very forums?

My post, as well as yours, is pretty much off topic from what Gen Harvey was trying to discuss here.  Now to get back on topic, camping is a part of the game, and since there are far more gamers than there were in the "Old RS Days of Glory", you have far more choices of who to CB and who to avoid because you might find camping unbearable to play against.  I have not played RvS yet, but I'm sure there is still some of the same objective based game play that you found in RS, R6, and GhR.  Let the campers camp.  I have never seen a clan win a ladder because they camped their way to victory.  It doesn't happen, and it has nothing to do with "respect".  

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  This is a virtual world that we play in, with ages ranging anywhere from approximately 10 - 50.  Respect will never find a home in the gaming world when it comes to clan to clan, or person to person.  If you find yourself having "respect" for a group or individual online, think about the fact that it just some kid on the other end of that line, a kid you probably couldn't stand in real life anyway, let alone respect.  Just play the game and have fun with the game.  Let the elusive "respect" be the icing on the cake so to speak.  Don't let it be the core center for playing a computer game.  Some of you take this gaming stuff way too seriously.  Have fun!

Um, Noto... Ultimo for the most part is right. Only "noobs" camped and didn't care then no one cbed them because no one wanted to be camped for an hour and come out with a loss. If you ever won a cb by camping you couldn't imagine the amount of shit talking you would receive in the main chat or the forums. "The only way you can win a cb is by camping" etc. So maybe you shouldn't comment on something you have no experience in.

Now for my cb structure suggestion:

Clans play best out of 5 MAPS. To win a map you have to win best of 5 games on that map. Map selection alternates starting with visiting team first. So here is a scenario.

Clan A plays Clan B on Clan A's host. Clan B selects the map. Clan A wins 3 out of the 5 games played on the map. Therefore they win that map.

Score 1-0.

Then the clans keep playing maps until someone wins best out of 5 maps.

Camping is boring, and doing it to win is also boring. Believe me, I've experienced that.

typhy, you seem to forget about all the noobs (yes noobs) who have killed the levels of respect in the community since ghr. However this has gotten much better as of late. I personally think many people worked to earn respect in the RS community to play on the good team with the respected players rather on the huge team of bad players in games.

I was one of the premier campers in RS, but it was only something done for fun once the game got boring. I really don't remember any cbs with massive amounts of camping, excluding the IRSL when ejo and i pwned typhy and infection 6-0 with c4 to win us the championship!

The thing with RVS that hurts camping is the 4 minute time limit, i doubt you'd find many people actually trying to camp.

6-0? Bullshit! I left for pizza in the middle of a 20 minute round with you guys C4 camping at Spa, with you and jo leading 2-1. However, the IRSL was a joke anyway.

Last game of RvS I played ( about 10 minutes ago ), I had 5 kills, 3 deaths. All 3 deaths came to campers. It gets really tedious, and while I like RvS, campers are the reason it can never be as good as RS.

Ya, I just got done w/ a round where a camper was sitting in a corner by his spawn point and easily scored 4 kills from shooting people in the back.

That's not skill.

I mentioned this to Alaric earlier.

There's one kind of camping, there where you fall back, standing up or crouching down in the open. That's waiting. Trying to get someone to play into your trap; this isn't a camp if you hold it for 5 seconds or so.

There's another kind of "fall back" camping. You fall back, dive behind a box, and peak your head out and wait. Regardless of how long you hold this spot for, you're a camper, you're not trying to fall back, you have the obvious intent of waiting for the enemey to come to you. However, this isn't a bad camp.

What's a bad camp, is jumping into a corner, and simply waiting for your oponents to come along.

I have no problem with "fall back campers". It's your job to not fall into their traps - go around them, hit 'em from the side or behind. Gas them, frag them, or call for help.

When someone camps in a corner, it's not the job of the assaulter to be watching out for these newbies. The game would be amazingly gay. It's be soooo slow paced if you were expected to check every corner of every room.

It's the job of every player not to camp in corners, and, in my opinion, it's the job of hosts to boot people who do.

If you want a good set up for Raven Shield clan battles, I suggest you follow the pattern set up by TWL...it is very equitable and not many people complain about it. The only people who would complain about it are the spray and pray noobs who load cmags onto a scoped weapon like the AUG or Enfield.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Rainbow+Six+3%3A+Raven+Shield+4+Man+Team+Survival+Rules (http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Rainbow+Six+3%3A+Raven+Shield+4+Man+Team+Survival+Rules)

A derivation of these rules would be the best solution in my opinion based upon my experience as a ladder admin and a player.

I think restricting extra magazines is a good idea. That format is kind of like the format I posted I think we should open up a separate thread for cb structure and rules very soon like we did for GhR.

I disagree with a lot of things on there.

For starters, as I said about third person view earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that third person should be allowed.

Also, why restrict Hi-Cap Mags? I carry a hi-cap in both my TMP and my MK23. Why should they be restricted? I see no justification for that. As far as I can see, they don't cause lag, or frame drop, or any of that shit. Makes no sense to me.

I also disagree with using a random map selection. Let's face it, some maps in RvS just suck. I think the best way to work is to find a way to use at least 4 maps in each CB.

Because people purposely shoot off their tmp's to lag me and then kill me.

Lol, get over it, Haz. You can do the exact same thing with an M249.

Sorry I thought actually reloading added a certain flavor to the game....

They should be restricted because the consensus is that only noobs use them. It takes absolutely no skill to fly around the corner spraying all 101 bullets you have without having to think of reloading or bullet conservation. This is not the same as a M249 because the M249 is not accurate, has extra large reticules, and doesn't have a scope. Sure you could spray with the M249, but you are not likely to hit much with it unlike an assault rifle or submachine gun with cmags.

As for 3rd person, if it were allowed, it would enable clan members to view through the dead bodies of other clan members with a full rotational view, thus making a corpse essentially a camera.

For random maps, that is something that would be changed for the Mac because PC's have an automated map selector and set times for matching...since *DAMN obviously doesn't have that set up, it would probably be the same selection mechanism like it was for Rogue Spear.

Not to mention it makes it easier for campers. By that I mean no reloading for them so no opportunity for you to rush in and take him out while he is vulnerable, but instead he has 90 bullets left even after camping your teamate(s). I just don't like the idea of not reloading, not to mention it makes a secondary weapon useless. I think extra long mags should not be used.

Sin, as I said in earlier topics, perhaps being able to view through third person ( I would restrict free camera, though ), is a bit cheap, however, it makes the game a lot more fun. Isn't that what CBs are about?

In terms of Hi-Cap mags, in the case of my TMP, it holds 31 shots w/o the hi-cap, 51 with it. That's not a huge difference, and with the TMP's rate of fire, a hi-cap mag is very important.

The L85A1 and Aug both take about 5 seconds to discharge all their ammo w/o hi-cap mags. That's plenty of fire to pick up kills in most situations.

More importantly, Hi-Cap mags are part of the game. They slow down the reticule in exchange for an advantage.

Hi-Cap mags are a vital part of the game. They add a flexibility in weapons choices not previously available. You can turn a weapon that was essentially useless before into a good, solid weapon.

The added ammo capacity and added stability are balanced by the slower reticule. With Hi-Cap mags you don't get any more ammo than normal. This might actually work against spammers, you run out of ammo faster.

I also think that you should force first person weapons. This is an important part of the game in my opinion. Part of the balancing of the game includes blocking part of your view when using larger weapons.

The no cmag rule makes sense to me.  It's like a person w/ an m60 running around, except w/ greater accuracy and closer range.  We referred to that gun as the "noob cannon" in Tac Ops.  If you are going to have  PDW w/ 101 rounds in it, you could go the whole round just using burst and never have to reload.

The rule seems to scream, learn how to aim.

Im all for running it the same way we ran the RS league. Exactly the same, except force first person in death. Sry Typhy but im not in the mood to get owned by netfone (some noob saying "I've got u in third and dont move ill tell you when some1 is coming". U say it didnt pose a problem back in RS? How else did KoS pull off some amazing kills? Its called ghosting. I know u know what ghosting is and i know u dont like it when some1 gives off ur position because they can see third.

Rebel, I'd take getting ghosted to add some fun to the game.

Here, everyone, read this fucking post:

I don't give a shit. I know that third person is cheap, and that it can make for some cheap kills. However, it makes it more fun to spectate! Yes, more fun; remember guys? Fun? What games are suppose to be about?

Viper, my opinion of that rule screams "it's part of the fucking game!"

Shall we take out gas? Or are gas masks considered cheap sense they counter gas to effectivly without covering any of the screen. Should we remove masks? HB sencors can be used cheaply. It's unreasonable to expect a team to set jammers throughout the entire map, so HB sencors make for nice camping weapons. Should we ban those? The TMP has a high rate of fire which makes for spray & pray style tactics, should we remove that? HB pucks and stationary expolsives ( remote charge, c4, etc. ) set themselves up for use as camper weapons. Shall we remove those? Weapons like the M249 with large ammo capacity, but slow recoils set themselves up as spray and pray weapons, or as camper weapons. Shall we ban those?

I could make an argument for banning almost every kit item and weapon in the game. The best counter-argument: They're part of the fucking game.

If the Hi-cap mags can be selected within the game, then back off lamers who want to ban them--wtf?  And sure I like to ghost but of course Typhy supports third person because he thinks he and his clan can outghost you all!  That is a valid debate but banning hi-cap mags--design your own fps game wussies!  Why dont you select countermeasures (which might include your own hi-cap mags) and try to win WITHIN THE GAMES FORMAT!

Games should be about fun, cb's should be about competing. Playing the game in itself should be fun enough. The simple fact is that if allowed it would be used to see over or around various obstacles.

Typhy, it may be a part of the game, and fun out of cb, but in cb, you know that a lot of clans would do whatever it takes to win, so they might lag the hell out of everyone with full auto spray, as for 3rd person, I used it in GhR to view from a body, but I never liked doing it, so I think it should go as well as high cap mags.

Regarding Hi-Cap mags:

If the additional capacity didn't affect the weapon in any way other than to simply have a larger clip, I would agree to ban them. However, it affects how the weapon handles making some weapons useless with the hi-cap and others more useful. This adds more flexibility into the game which is a good thing.

If you take away hi-cap mags, you take away half the weapons, which makes the game more predictable. In a cb, predictability = boring. This was the main problem in ghr cbs, the weapons (among other things) were not balanced and this made the cbs very predictable. It would be a shame to see the same happen to RvS.

Like every other underhanded tactic a clan might use to win a cb, there are ways to negate the usefulness of spamming weapons. I suggest that rather than whine about how you're always getting spammed, you adapt and develop tactics to counteract them. That is what always (in any game) seperates the good clans from the best clans, Tactics.

Perhaps what you mean to say is something like this:

The fun brought by being able to view through third person is contridicted by the lack of fun involved in getting ghosted.

I really can't argue with it. Perhaps it's because I come from Rogue Spear; I honestly don't think that there are many people out there willing to be cheap enough to take full advantage of ghosting.

By blocking free third person camera, we'd remove the possibility of being able to watch a teamate's back through third, and it'd merely have the use of looking around corners. In my opinion, a minor thing, when you consider that in most cases, it's safer to peak around the corner than to spent 10 seconds trying to get into the perfect posistion so that your teamate on NF can see.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps there are people out there willing to find a corner, and use third person to peak out, and tell their teamate as soon as an enemey comes. However, what's this tell you? If a clan is desperate enough to need to do this, doesn't that relect poorly upon their skills? Should we really regard a clan who needs to do this as a threat?

The reason that I want to allow third person isn't just to make the game more fun - which I think it would do. It's also to try and point out that if a clan is so intent on winning that they'll use any cheap means nesscesary, then we're not going to stop them. Just like what I said about cheat tests back at GHR, if players are so intent on winning that they're willing to cheat, they'll find other ways. Why should we make the game less fun for those of us who don't play cheaply in order to try and prevent ( uselessly, I might add ), against those players who do?

 Ok, those of you who are here for the Hi-Cap Mag debate may now begin reading


Why should it be any different with guns like the M249? You're ( the anti hi-cap group of people ) trying to argue two points. Each of which makes the other one invalid. You can either complain that they don't take enough skill, where as light machine guns do, or you can complain that they can lag the game. If the first one is used, the second one is invalid.

Like I said about third person, if a clan is that desperate, and needs to use tactics like Crypt mentioned in order to win, what's that say about their skill level? Should we regard clans like that as a threat? Or should we just accept the fact that while that may work some of the time, and may get them a few fluke wins, they're not going to be at the top of the ladder, and you can just avoid playing them.

Does anyone think Typhy would be a good defendant for Saddam? He seems to always support the shitty things in games.....odd. I can see it now. KoS vs MP5 and ult tells me typhy is around a corner. So i take my gun and just strat SPRAYING and he gets pwned. Then he bitches that im a noob. Sorry Typhy but no matter how much you defend it, its still ghei and pointless not to ban it. Im all for the ban.

I say first person view only.. keep extra ammo mags, i dont realy like hear beat sensors but i dont care if they are allowed or not.

Before the discussion on hi-cap mags goes any farther, I'd like everyone to check out the Stey Aug with a hi-cap.

This is by far the most unbalanced weapon combo in the game. When you fire on full auto the ret doesn't even budge and your view barely knocks around. I am able to hit targets at range on full auto while running diagonally, and that's just wrong. In cqb the high ammo capacity makes it an excellent spamming weapon.

This is the only reason I can find to ban hi-caps, and it's a damn good one. I'm not ready to say that we should ban hi-caps just yet, but I think it's definetly worth more investigation and debate.

well, since  everyone seems to be up in arms about primary cmags, what about secondary cmags?  personally i dont have a problem with those, simply because the pistol is rarely used, and the silencer is a generally crappy option to use in general, leaving your cmag the only mod for pistols left

I expecially like extending the capacity of the DEagle .50 - makes the DE even better.

I can argue this as much as I want, however, when it comes down to it, wether or not hi-cap mags are allowed will come down to what the majority of the players want. That's how it should be. However, I would like to encourage you to try out hi-cap mags; play the game enough to get used to them, and only vote to restrict them if you find them a problem. Don't just jump to the conclusion that they're for newbies, though.

I really see no reason to block Hi-Cap mags on secondarys. They're rarely used, but effective and cause no problems, and make for no "cheap"/unrealistic guns.

I have nothing against secondary cmags but when I am pinned down for 30 seconds because some guy is 3 round bursting where I am with a clip of over 100 bullets it gets a little ridiculous. It causes lag when everyone is using cmags, they require very little skill and are the biggest example of "spray and pray" I have ever seen.

The 'what should we ban for MP games' seems to be a discussion that comes up more than often. However continuing from what hazared said about the mags discussion id ask folks to try playing with no restrictions for a while - they are in the game so just play with them. Just because you don't like somthing dosn't mean it should be ripped to shreds and permabanned. People have different playing styles and i sometimes get the feeling that when people come up against a guy with a style they dont like they do everything they can to remove it... thats just a generalisation though.

Kit restrictions are put in place in an effort to maximise the enjoyment of the game - we are looking for the best possible playing enviroment that provides good, fun, fair games. If a particular restriction would aid this goal then maybe it would be a good idea...  But just take into consideration some of the arguments that have gone on regarding GhR - if some guys got their own way you would be restricted from using any of the following: nades, any form of GL, the OLCW, the SA80 and sensors...

Why dont we just vote? I see no point in arguing because no one will change their view point and so far ive only heard 1 vote FOR the mags and that would be Typhy. Everyone else seems to be against it so i guess that means its nto gonna happen?

If you play against any PC player worth their salt, pistols are almost always used because it is easier to flip weapons to your secondary in a firefight than it is to reload your primary.

As for primay cmags, I already made my argument against them earlier in this thread:

yes, sin. i realize that, but compared to the amount of time your primary weapon is out, the pistol is used a much smaller  percentage of the time (maybe a few seconds out of the entire time)  i also made no claim on primary cmags at all. i personally dont like them and so  i dont use them. i'll let those who actualy care fight ovrt that subject

Ok, back from vacation, so I can actually spend some time on this.

Here's my thoughts.

CB's are best 2 out of 3 matches.

Matches are best of 7 rounds (so first team to win 4, regardless of draws - keep playing till 4th win).

Picking maps:
If switching hosts, the guest clan picks the map and team color.
If playing on same host, the guest picks the first match, and following matches are chosen by the loser.

So the settings would be:
Rounds per Match           7
Time per Round              5
Time Between Rounds     --
Friendly Fire                    Yes
Teammate Killer Penalty  No
Allow Radar                     Yes
Allow Teammate Names  Yes
Force Firstperson Weap   Yes
First Person Death Camera
Third Person Death Camera
Team Only Death Camera

Kit Restrictions - None

My feelings on this are simple.
1) as long as it's not free 3rd person or viewing the other team (or ghost camera even), it's no different than what's gone on before.  I don't quite understand how someone saying that they used it in the past is a good reason for it not being used now.
2) No kit restrictions.  If there were none before, why should there be any now?  You can't tell me that high capacity mags are even close to as bad as the OICW's nade launcer, not with anything near honesty.  The weapons have a penalty built in for using the high mags or scopes.  They don't react the same, aren't as accurate, and you have less overall ammo on you.
3) This is also why I'm for forcing first person weapon.  Bigger guns and adding stuff to them blocks some of your vision, so block it if you add it.
4) Let's work the scoring so it rewards bigger CB's still.  This game is a lot of fun with 8v8, so let's encourage them, and not have it turn into the 2v2 world that disgusts me.  Make the default 4v4, and deduct points for smaller, add points for bigger =D
5) Looking at the vote thread, the majority so far agree with no kit restrictions.

 Well said, Bucc. I agree with everything there.  

Ditto. I move to use Bucc's rules as the standard for the league.

All in Favor? Yea!

All Opposed? Nea!


YEA!

Yep this sounds very good bucc, ive said what i feel about kit restrictions and    i still don't see the reason for them. These outlines look great for good games, and definatly the move for bigger cb's cannot be anything but a good one.

I agree.

Looks like somebody needs to go back to HTML school.....lol

on point one : the leetness of bucc's suggestions    YEA

on point 2: the need for haz to visit html school     NEA
that's bbs code, GS not html

I backspaced the"[".... anyway...

It seems like Bucc's set will be the rules for the league.

Good point Brain....let's send GhostSniper to bbs code school followed by HTML school since he doesn't know the difference.....lol

lol, maybe we should get back on topic here........

To start..... Will there be any new map packs or mods that will be BL approved, I've seen several good maps out there that are good and could be used for official maps.

Crypt, I'd go with the standard BL rule on mods, especially for the first season.  That being they are only allowed if both teams agree to them before the CB.

I don't see any need to start with mods on a game so new that most people still don't have a legitimate copy of yet.  =D

Ok, I see where you are coming from, Bucc.

 I just thought of the first thing off of the top of my head to bring this back to topic.  ;)

As for your rule set, It seems like the best way to get the first season going, and should be used.

I'd have to disagree with that.  The weapon that I use is just as accurate with the scope or a cmag as it is without one.  I don't know about you guys, but I won't be enjoying a game that involves some clan opposite of me using a cmag, rushing with 4 of their teammates and using burst fire shooting at anything they see for 10 minutes or until they have to RELOAD! oh boy!  

That must be considered skill there folks...

I think the game needs an initiation season for everyone to get used to RvS and to find out what needs to be changed for the future.

Well Paul Bunion, er, Viper, nice exaggerations there.

So far the BL hasn't banned HBS, OICW/GL's, PDW's, or any other weapon or kit that I can see.  Some people feel that HBS is only for Noobs too.  I think the OICW/GL is the biggest Noob weapon of all time.  Or auto shotguns, for that matter.

They are part of the game.  There are plenty of ways to beat the guys with the large capacity mags.

You may call it skill to not use them, I call it more skill beating them.

And you should check the stats of your gun, you'll notice a change in a few of them when you add it.

Ok i went back to TWL (even though the last time i was there it was when they were kicking a2 off the ladder because we pwned too badly) to look at the RvS rules for a 4v4 team survival match. They are very well set up but since TWL picks the maps for u this may present a problem. Like back in RS every clan had a warring map which made things KINDA boring. Ive got a new idea to solve this little problem. When we find out who the ladder admins are, they will be the ones who decide the map. So basically, if KoS were to cb BTs (KoS ownage) I would not pick the map because im in the match, but i would go ask some1 else such as Typhy or another RvS admin and they would select a map at random. Although this could become currupted i feel that only straightforward RvS players should select the maps. If this does not sound like it will work maybe the guys at *DAMN could make a random map generator. So when u click on the button it randomly tells you a map. This also could present problems due to the fact that people could repeat the process until the desired map shows up. Anyone have any GOOD ideas about how we can go about choosing maps? Hmm now that i look at the the TWL rules better its best of 3 maps. U play up to 5 rounds (best of 5 first the 3 rounds) and that wins u the map. Its first clan to win 2 maps so i bet we could just do it like the old RS days and play each clan picks a map to play on and the other team picks the side they want for that map. What do yall think?

With that last thing you said if both teams pick a map who will decide the last map?
But I dont like the idea that you need to have luck that a map you are good on gets choosing by the random generator or an admin who gets paid to choose a certain map picks it :)

What is wrong with the guest picking the map and then the loser of each round picking next?
What you were saying makes no sense, I don't think something like that should be implemented, seriously.

P.S. Stop using BTs everytime you want to make your clan sound better.

Crypt.. the prob w/ that is the way that RvS host games.. it would take tooo long just to changes maps..i know some peeps that takes them about 2 games b4 they rejoin the game from there slower mac loading the next map..

Harvey, that's not really an issue if you just load all the maps in at the start, and use the console commands to change the maps.

Not a problem at all.

Im not talking about the hot.. im talking about the lcient side of things.. like lets say me and spets are in a game.... the map changes. my G5 is in the next game w/ time to spare for the first game to start (normal public host / timer on).. spets w/ his slower imac  is still loading the map half way though the first game of the new map so he doesnt join till the second game... thats the extra time im talking about..

It's called patience. Even with the map load delays, RvS cbs stand to be a damn sight shorter than GhR cbs. I'm not gonna complain.

Just making my point why i think going map to map every game might not be the best route

The server timer pauses when you enter the server setup, am I correct? Therefore you could just enter that to allow for some extra time for the rest of the members to load.

Yes thats what i do on my host.. but i was just sayingthat this wil cause the CB to take 2 to 3  times as long as playing several games on one map

I would say 5 minute rounds, best of 5 rounds on a best of 5 maps format, or something. (tweak the number to your liking)

5 maps damn! Im all for the ol RS ways....but thats just the RS vet in me speaking. 2 maps, best of 10 per map. The thing is Flies is that if a clan gets beat on their map, u know who the better clan is....because either way u are SUPPOSED to win your map and if u dont ur opponent rightfully wins. Im just gonna sit back and listen to what happens. With so many people not liking others opinions i dunno what will happen. BTW vipe ty for the backup its what i needed.

I don?t see any fun in perfecting one map, and playing that in every cb.
In my opinion the winner should be the skillful clan, who can win on any map taken...
The map picking in GhR worked fine. Every clan had their favorite maps, and picked those.

Not being an RS vet, I can only speak from my experiences in GhR. I am, however, a PONG vet.  ;)

Mags

Variety is the spice of life. Id like to see CB's that happen in more than two maps (the 2 clans favorite maps) but I don't really see this being a huge issue. The "play one map twice" rule in GhR worked exteamly well... As it is most clan guys tend to have more than one favorite map.. and some people just found that some maps were unsuitable for CBs... Like the DS map Riverbed... or Wilderness!

Big up to Pong... if you fancy somthing highly addictive try http://www.ismokecrack.com (http://www.ismokecrack.com)   ping... pong... ping.... pong.. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/icon_lol.gif)

Oh, I say screw the RvS ladder now, and lets play this trippy version of Pong all day.

it's amazing that such a stupid thing can be so addicting.

ping......pong....ping....Super Curve Bonus!.....pong.... ;D ;D

Indeed this is how i spend my time when i should be doing my essay..... i write about 100 words then decide i need a break... ping pong ping pong...

I still can't get past level 8 though.. it gets so damn fast its crazy! pong..

Ok im sorry this is (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/YaBBImages/offtopic.gif) Back to the subject in hand...


ps. lets have a pong ladder ;)  Bonus!

Mauti, make .ini's for easy server set up. A another great idea from THE MAIN-MAN.  :o

Any ideas on when Season 7 is starting?

Force first person weapon: off, this regulates if the gun in the lower part of screen the one your holding has to show or not, if you like to play without it dont see why not.
The guys who want to play with weapon shown at the screen is free to do so, and the guys who wants to be without it can do that, very simple.

Remember -The free choise is the reason that we run Mac and not Pc.

[[EUR]] Stevie

Please don't post it in one topic, then copy and paste it to another.  Topic's merged. -Bucc

I can see for CBs having force first person weapon on.  Different guns have different sizes, muzzle flashes, scopes attached, etc, which all play into how well you can see. Guns that have more power, have bigger muzzle flashes, which is the trade off.  The more powerful your gun, the harder it is to see when shooting.  If you take that off for CB purposes, it gives some guns more of an advantage over others.

For regular games, however, feel free to do whatever you want. :)

I bet that turning off the weapon would help with some of the game lag, might be a good thing to look into.

Splinter.

I say U must reethink about this ??!!
Other players still see your muzzle and flashes, reason to turn it off
is that alot of players like to have it off bc the muzzle destroys the gamefeeling and block the wiev.

I'm not talking about flash bangs, i'm talking about the muzzle flash, the flame that comes out of the gun when you fire.  it varies on size depending on which gun you take.  The size of the gun and the size of the muzzle flash are a weapons characteristic just as the recoil recovery and stability are.  if you take a big gun with lots of power, it will have a big kick, and a big muzzle flash.  for regular gaming purposes, by all means play however, but for CBs, these should be left in.  RvS is meant to give a more accurate realistic experience with how the guns handle, than in GhR.  Having the gun in front of you and having it impede your vision is just another aspect of whatever gun you choose.

Simple answer.  If you read the manual, there's a give and take for using the different guns and different kit.

For example, if you add a mini-scope to your gun, it takes up more space on the screen, screwing up your vision a bit more.  This was how the game designers meant it to be.  Same with taking bigger guns over smaller ones.  Big guns have a power advantage, small ones a sight advantage.

I also say NO to disbann SHOWWEAP off. If u say I can aim better without the weap - i say thats bullshit - b/c i aim much better with WEAP on -

It is simply a fact off getting used to any option and  weapon.
If a guy want to play without see the waep- let him go - this does not give him a real advantage.

Ok, he can see more - therefor he has a much worse feeling for the weapon.
I tried this a few times, and always come to the same clue.
It doesnt matter if its on or off. One plays better with ""off" the other with "on". So let the ppl chose.

When we start to regulate evrything here, this game will die soon. B/C then ppl are no more allowed to play the game like it is fun for them.
Dont forget it is still all about fun - and not to make all equal.

When all is equal then it is all boring. Always the same and always in the same way.

I also say NO to disbann SHOWWEAP off. If u say I can aim better without the weap - i say thats bullshit - b/c i aim much better with WEAP on -

It is simply a fact off getting used to any option and? weapon.
If a guy want to play without see the waep- let him go - this does not give him a real advantage.

Ok, he can see more - therefor he has a much worse feeling for the weapon.
I tried this a few times, and always come to the same clue.
It doesnt matter if its on or off. One plays better with ""off" the other with "on". So let the ppl chose.

When we start to regulate evrything here, this game will die soon. B/C then ppl are no more allowed to play the game like it is fun for them.
Dont forget it is still all about fun - and not to make all equal.

When all is equal then it is all boring. Always the same and always in the same way.  

About the muzzle flash - lol - this doesn bother me. I hit much less when I dont see this thing ( this is my story )                                                                              

Ive run a few weapons to see if or not performance differs with the weapons showing or not... and as far as i can see its not made a frames bit of difference.. im getting same FPS both with and without the view of my weapon.

The majority of the admins, and the comunity agreed to forcing the weapons view as like Flies has said, it's one of the key ways in which the weapons are balenced out - in the most basic of examples its power v view. the bigger and more powerful your gun the more the gun obstructs your view...

I can't see there being any reversal on this decision.

 Go to a single player mission, and read the description of the mini scope. That, right there, is enough of a reason to force first person weapon.

One of the biggest problems with my TMP is that when I shoot, the muzzel flash takes up so much screen space that it's extremely hard to see what I'm aiming at. This is part of the game, and it helps to avoid having a "super weapon" ( my lovely PDW, or FagRecon's shitty OICW/GL ).  

I think top of the list is that we want to make this game as realistic as possible. The same reason 3rd person free view isnt allowed.

Steve it all comes down to the fact that we're trying to create a fair, balenced and fun base for battles. Quite simply giving people the option to turn of the weapon view unbalences the game, and thus for some people it also removes the enjoyment. Hence why in CB's settings will have to be set to view FP weapon.

It wont be unfair when u let the ppl chose.
It wont be unfair when the "classic view" stays, b/c evrybody of has also the chance to chose this view. Noone forces you to choose the weapon view - noone.

If u say it B/C of framerates - 1 FPS doesnt matter - although I never mentioned any difference.

So U have the chance of the same choise. When U now say: but I want to sae my waep - then I say ok, but your will isnt an argument.

When u say we want to make this game more realistik - guys - this is no reality, dont try to transfare reality to this game -

then U also have to forbid any zoom in this game. B/c there is so called 1 Shot = hit bug in the game
(this will go to far to explain this ) - when u zoom in and move and shoot the first shot always hit the place where u aim on.

U also have to forbid an few other things. And after that the game wont be fun anymore.

SO I STILL SAY - HERE IS NOTHING UNFAIR - U ALSO HAVE TO CHOISE - WHEN U DONT WANT TO USE IT - YOU ARE NOT FORCED, BUT DONT FORCE THE OTHERS TO DO WHAT YOU HAVE DONE - THIS WOULD BE UNFAIR TO THE OTHER PLAYERS.

Seems as thought only you EUR guys have the problem with this force weapon issue. Whats the big deal anyways EUR. You guys have been inactive on the ladders for how long?  ;)

If you wanna use a bulky weapon you have to live with it. My vote goes to force first person weapon.

VooDoo - What do you want to say with your statement??? that we dont have the right to discuss this???

And it is not only EUR - only a few had posted here - always the same ppl. Do u really think that U VooDoo, being more active then me in the last two seasons, represent the whole community????

I dont thinks so. I also dont think so that I do. But I posted my opinion. And the only thing that I see, is that you simply ignore arguments and try to blam us that were not that active u were.

THIS IS NOT OBJECTIVE and FOR U AS MOD NOT ACCAPTABLE

I think I also have to throw in my 2 cents.

Holo this has nothing to do with fair and unfair it's about keeping the intern weapon balance. - the weapon fp view is a main part of the complete weapon stats contrary to R6, RS or Ghr were the weapon balance was only based on zoom and hit percentage(recoil).

RvS goes a step further and also adds the dimensions of a gun to the weapon stats using weapon fp view. If you take away the fp view it is like giving all guns in R6, RS and Ghr the same zoom. By applying the same zoom you take away one important part of the complete weapon stats.

This is the reason why the admins came to the conclusion that it would be best to force weapon fp view.

Gr??e,

Mauti

This not exactly the same - Mauti - sorry -

B/C the waeps dont have the same zoom, when u turn off the FPV.
The HKG36K still needs long to zoom in and still has the same long zoom range. The smaller waeps still have there smaler zoom range.

B/C of fairness: I didn start the fairness debat, I simply gone with it and explained why it is not unfair.
The others never used the word fair - but they talked about balance - and unbalance ( Balance for FAIR - unbalence UNFAIR )

Ok, I will try go on on an other point:

Reaslistik.

If u wonna make the game realistik, then you have to put on kit restriktions but you dont wont!
So where the hell is the realistik???
Also a real special unit will never use Cmags - to heavy and to bad AIM with it.
But Cmags in this game make the weaps better balanced.

Also you never need to relaod - what makes the game more arcade then tactical - SO where is the realistic?

OK - IF STILL WANT TO DO SO - DO IT.

I AM TO TIRED OF ARGUMENTING HERE ( MAUTI WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO TRIED TO WITH MY ARGUMENTS AND NOT IRNORING THEM ) - NO COMMENT HERE FROM MY SIDE - NOMORE.

I will come back and post again - when ppl start to read and go with arguments and not simply say what they think! I think much - but nothing of this is really important to this or helps to find the solution. Think and put argument WHY u think so.

I did - may be some of my thought look kinda unthought - but it also could be my crappy english. I hate to debate in english, but sometimes I am force to do

I know that the zoom is still different, it was only a comparison on how important the weapon fp view is for Raven Shield. It's an integral part of the whole weapon behaviour and it is as important as different zoom.

It's not about realism or arcade game style, it is about giving the weapons and attachments an more important meaning.

The developer created the complete weapons with the fp weapon view in mind but when they released the PC demo many R6 and GhR vets screamed that there should be an option to turn the fp view off. So did Ubisoft but the weapon characteristic was still created with a fp view activated. E.g. the zoom attachment consumes a lot of screen space so you think twice if you gonna use it because when zoom isn't needed it is a disadvantage for you. It fp view is off - it is a nobrainer to take zoom because you only get the advantages but not the disadvantages of the zoom. Here you clearly see that the developer wanted to make the weapon and attachment choice an more important part of the game, which they achieved as long as fp view is on.

Good night,

Mauti

First of all, I dont want to flame this thread so if anything further needs to be said please do private message me. Second of all Im not going to apologize for what I said because I meant it as a joke. Now looking back at it I can see how it was taken rather badly, but if you remove my last sentence there is nothing wrong with my post. I was just interested in why the heavy interest by you guys. You also say arguments (as in plural). Have I spoke to you about this issue before? To my recollection we have not.

Thanks for ignoring mine and Typhy's posts Hologram.

I'd like to take a moment to commend Mauti on his fine grasp of the nuances of the english langage.

To say we all ignored your agruement/point of view/ oppinion i think is somehwat harsh hologram, maybe some responces have been brief here but this is becasue we have allready had long, complex debates about this issue.

Yes i understand u want to have the freedom to do as you choose.

THe game was designed by pro's to be a balenced and fair platform for games. The difference between having Forced first person has several issues, which we have allready mentinoed. Most notably it balences out the advantages and dissadvantages of heavy and light guns, most notably for the size of your screen which is blocked by by teh weapon. that is why.

I think we are talking about "realism" within the game, not real life. IF we all wanted to be able to charge around with heavy machine guns spraying bullets then we'd be playing QIII...

unbalenced is unfair, balanced is fair.. yes exactly. We belive that to allow people to not have foced FP the game would be unfair. Therefore to balence the game it was decided that in C'bs First person view would be forced on.

I'll tell you this....he has a much better grasp of the English language than I have of the German language :)

Voodoo my interest is simple and I explained it. I want the free choise of it - nothing more.


I prefer to play to see the weapon - I cant play without seeing it - thats a fact.

So I just dont want that others that got used to the other view get pissed about this.

It is all correct, that the more heavy weapons take away more place on the screen. This doesnt bother me.

For me it is simple after I also had a few discussions in the PC Community, and after I play a few rounds in the ESL ( Electronic Sports Leage ) - this shouldnt be. B/C also in the league - one of the biggest - this view is allowed. This doesnt mean that we have to do the same. But I  think when in the PC Zone, where ppl bitch arround really fast and claim eachother cheater and try to forbid Cmags, it is ok to have this option allowed. Why not here?

It will still remain our decision - but we dont need to be more radical then others.

Just turn the shit off on hosts on GR, bc it ruins the gamefeeling for a lots of us.
If those lil popes want to have it turned on in CB?s... just let them.
Remember the gamecommutity we created back in the 1998 was based on having fun together and we had no small or big popes whom taking our gaming to seriously around.
I have waited so long for the good old R6 days to comming back and I am so happy that the Ghr camping shit is over.
No noobs can argue good enough to tell me that this FFW is a thing big enough to improve the gaming in any way.

Stevie

looks like the same happens now and everytime, again.

during the last few months before RvS came out for mac i noticed a strange feeling around GhR rising in me. when i was clear about it i saw it was like i slowly got bored of GhR. but it was not the game. i loved it and i still do now. in that times i couldn't name the reason or where it came from although i thought about it a lot. there were all things available that should boost up fun for gaming and exploring new maps and mods. that all seemed not to work for me.

but then i got the point. it didn't work because noone was playing them. noone really wanted them. but the reason for this is not only that some maps are slowing or some map packs were a little difficult to install or a little large for slowcons to download.

the reason that all played all the same all the time was the damn battle league (sorry, i mean it literally).

but no.

it was not really the battle league. it was the unspeakable list of rules. and the way they grew and grew every week. fed by all kind of advisors who thought they were doing a good job for the game, the league and the community.

unfortunately they didn't.

with the count of admins exploding the attraction of the battle league somehow went down for me.

then "warzone" was installed as a must for the league and i felt like hunted down; "at last they got me". since then one was forced to play this game type all the time, on every host, just because all had to practice it. you just wanted some nice straight games? nearly no chance.

and now i come to the point.

this shows that setting up rules, especially restrictions and add ons will have a major effect in our community. it affects the behaviour and the free will of all active players. whether participating in the battle league or not.

so rules must generally set up carefully. and now far more carefully than in the past.

the "deciders" must develop a fine sense for responsibility now.

instead of this i see people who start to argue about terms and try to differ between "realism" and "realistic". do we have a new sort of philosophers here?

who cares what the developers wanted. no-one knows what they really wanted. hey, maybe it was the marketing department that wanted to see fpw because this simply generates more customers. or they just loved to look like counterstrike. anyway.

fact is that there are several features implemented that provide fun an even big fun. and i want to have that fun. i don't want to be restricted in regular games because all the world is practicing by restricting rules for the bl.

there is no real reason to restrict things because of advantages or disadvantages in certain kits, views(*), whatever... these things are part of the game. so, only players that are free in their choice will have the oportunity to find their favoured settings and options. and that results in the most possible satisfaction for each individual player.

i have the feeling that some posts come in with highly refined rethorical content trying to influence by suggesting that the author describes the will of the whole community. or even trying to tell me the best choice although it might be only his own personal opinion.

this scares me.

i don't hear the community screaming for realism, or to be as close as possible to it. so why do some always speak of that?

if you really want to have it as realistic as possible be straight, argue straight. see the following points and ask yourself if you would agree with that:
- switch off any view from a dead player. hey that's possible now!
- ban sensors and radar. no-one claimed this in GhR, btw.
- ban voice communication (because dead men don't talk) although promoted as a "must"
- some more...? hicap magazines? don't know if they are existing...?

Stevie says he won't "get poped". well, he is straight as ever. we often have different opinions in clan internal subjects.

but in this case i believe that our tom-clancy-mac-community is too small that there should be such a way of influence again like i saw during the last bl season(s).

to all those people thinking too serious things i'd like to say:
let us all be more different and let each keep his own way of feeling fun in these games.

thank you
Red  8)


(*) ok, there is only one thing i would restrict in a cb so far: the ghost camera. although a cool feature i consider it cheating when a dead player could sneak everywhere and report over nf.

First, I'll thank Holo once again for ignoring what Typhy and I wrote.


Steve, to put it very plainly, I don't give a shit.  I'm tired of the same 2 or 3 people always asking for me to turn FFW off.  It isn't coming off on my host.  If you don't like the way my or other hosts are set up, don't play on them or host it up yourself if you feel so strongly about it.  But don't ever tell me to "just turn the shit off".  I don't respond well to that shit.


That's not what it's about.  Try reading a couple posts for people that disagree first.


Good thing that I'm not a noob then.  Because I'll tell you you've made absolutely no case for it other than "because I want it so" crap.  Try looking at what has been said about it, then arguing why that's wrong.

And in all that time, I don't remember you trying to help at all.


Who's stopping you from hosting?  Why are you (and Steve) bitching in the BL about pick up games on GR anyway?  You don't like what's being played, host one up yourself.


Who says we don't have a fine sense of responsibility?  

If you read Mauti's post about it, you would have realized that the "deciders" as you put it, have been discussing it in the Admin forum.  Now, unless you have access to that, you can't really tell me you know what the "deciders" have been arguing about (especially since the admins haven't actually been arguing at all, it's all been pretty smooth with lots of good input).


If you had taken mine or Typhy's advise in this thread to heart, and actually RTFM, you'd know why FFW was in there.  It isn't about realism, it's because it makes sense the way they state it.  
Give it a shot.


Funny, that's the exact feeling I have when I read your post.  Think about it.  Here's people from one clan, all saying the same thing.  Here's these posts telling us about the good old R6 days and how it's supposed to be about fun and FFW ruins the fun (your opinion, not mine).


I hear some of the community screaming it, and so do you or you wouldn't mention it twice now.  It's not as important to me, but it is to many.  Think about why people like the R6 games more than games like RTCW or MOH or SOF2, because these are more realistic.  That's one thing that does drive people to this game.  Not the only thing, and not for everyone, but you don't want to accept that to part of this community, it does matter.  

I call that stuck on your own opinion and not being very responsible in thinking about these decisions.  You are discounting them off hand, without reason at all.


Wait, isn't that ruining someone's fun? <sarcasim />

Really, it's nice that your clan is together on this topic, but you have added not a single reason for not having FFW.  The only actual reason you've given for FFW is that it makes it more fun for you (and your clan from the looks of it).  Glad to hear it.  

But, since there are many clans in the BL, and the admins are representing their different clans, should your (clan's) opinion count for more or less than the others?  No.  Your opinions should be heard, yes, and taken into account by all means.  But, in my opinion, just saying over and over that it's more fun for you this way doesn't really do it for me, especially with the offhand way you dismiss the opinions of those that want realism after talking about how the admins don't consider things carefully enough.  Nope, just doesn't cut it for me.

First of all its nice that RvS is bringing som many of the Vets back to Gameranger, and I really looking forward to have long fun gamenights and CB?s with them and others cool guys on GR.
I say it would be boring if First weapon will be forced in CB?s bc I dont like it at all and regarding to me its just a small parameter in the game overall.

Second...Who is this Buccaner, never played in a game with him ( or maybe I did but he was so boring I dident notice), I never saw him on GR and I defenitly never heard anyone mention hes nickname.

Opposit to this (boy?) I never give a shit in other guys Request, so keep on joining Mine, rest of the EUR and other good host who has manners enough to show respect for other players.

Herby I said what I wanted to say and regarding to me the subject is closed.

Mauti....This Damn site U created is amazing and thx for the mail.

CYA out there
Stevie

     Heh. You lose in so many ways it isn't even funny, Stevie.

thanks for reading and replying my post, Buccaneer.

you made great efforts to take my post apart and quote it into pieces. but while doing this you missed the point that i tried to make clear. unfortunately i have to say that you even didn't get the key of the quoted parts right. but that's not my problem.

i noticed you perfectly quoted your way around the key lines. and i believe this was not intentional. you simply didn't get it. so i will quote myself to show you what i mean:

--->
this shows that setting up rules, especially restrictions and add ons will have a major effect in our community. it affects the behaviour and the free will of all active players. whether participating in the battle league or not.
....
there is no real reason to restrict things because of advantages or disadvantages in certain kits, views(*), whatever... these things are part of the game. so, only players that are free in their choice will have the oportunity to find their favoured settings and options. and that results in the most possible satisfaction for each individual player.
<---

that is the key.

now quoting you:

--->
... but you have added not a single reason for not having FFW.
<---

first and finally, my topic is not ffw. hope it's clear now (see above).
second: it is definitly NOT my part to give reasons why to keep a free choice of options. it is YOURS to explain me in detail why you (so busily) want to restrict it.

thank you
Red  8)

Nope, even repeated, I get the key message.  You don't seem to have gotten most of mine though.


Yes, setting up rules does have a profound effect.  But that's just stating the obvious, and I didn't think it needed comment.  

Whereas I did comment on you saying that the admins did a poor job of it, and asked where were you to help?


And even you disagreed with this in your pointing out that you'd restrict ghost view and viewing other team.  So I can't take it seriously, sorry.  I did say that in my last post when I asked if it was about choice and fun, wouldn't this limit someone's fun.    


Maybe because I've posted the reasons previously, and you didn't seem to take the time to read it, or just not respond.  

And it is YOUR part to give reasons, since we've decided to force it and you seem to be arguing for it to be changed.

Last, I'll repeat myself, since you seemed to have missed a major point of mine.  You dismissed outright the voice of the people in this community that want it more realistic, as if their opinions don't count.  And in the same post talk about how important it is to take into consideration the whole community.  That smacks of hypocrisy.  Why should anyone take you seriously when you do that?

Ouch, that hurt.  Some hardly active dick thinks that saying he doesn't know me is an insult.  

Too bad that kiddie game of insult the guy to ignore the points went out of style back when I was in High School, some 20 years ago.  Guess you still haven't outgrown it yet though.

I also like how you give the only real reason is that you don't like it and that's the way it should be.  Thanks for such an insightful argument.

Who are you? If you can't do anything but cause problems in a thread trying to solve the problem of establishing a rule system for the upcoming season, you shouldn't be commenting. I appreciate your views on trying to prevent "popes", or whatever the fuck your trying to say, from forcing their views of rvs on everyone. But by suggesting your own view on ffw that no one gives a shit about your helping nothing. If your not helping, STFU, and i won't have to add to any of this mess.
I'll hope that this is deleted by an admin after you get a chance to see this,
-jeb

Her Her Flies, Mauti will be releasing the "official" rules shortly. This thread is hearby Locked.
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